I thought the whole point is the AI Yamana or Uesugi being unstoppable. That's basically the AI being able to blob too, so yeah the competition is there.
I think some want this to be a daimyo simulator. It isn't, time is running out.
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
I thought the whole point is the AI Yamana or Uesugi being unstoppable. That's basically the AI being able to blob too, so yeah the competition is there.
I think some want this to be a daimyo simulator. It isn't, time is running out.
I know that blobbing is what it is, but I only thought it went a bit fast. In my game it was me and one other clan after only a bit more than half the time had passed.
I've gone from being worried sick about Ouchi to wondering if the game is too easy and being afraid of suffering their fate. Suffice it to say that the AI knows how to make plots, and succeeded this time around. I think (based on part of one game, so far) that it's easier to consolidate Tohoku or Shimazu and keep your number of neighbors under control than to try and win from Chuugoku or Kansai, which Ouchi and Yamana have to.
In my Oda game (I had about 5 provinces) the Yamana blobbed immensely in the west and the Uesugi stayed together as well taking out all of the major clans east of my position. at around 1505 they jointly attacked the Isshiki (Who were the third largest power and a force to be reckoned with in their own right) and in a moment of hubris I decided to attack the Yamana to keep the pressure off of them. Just when I thought we might weather the storm (The Yamana leader died and his sons weren't exactly on good terms with each other) the Uesugi wisened up and attacked me leading to my swift defeat.
I enjoyed every minute of it.
It was the most intense session I have ever played in all my years of playing Paradox games. While this game has a long way to go to be considered great I'd say it shows a lot of potential, here's hoping Paradox gives it the love it deserves!
(Sorry, this seemed to be the most appropriate thread to post this)
I enjoyed every minute of it.
It was the most intense session I have ever played in all my years of playing Paradox games. While this game has a long way to go to be considered great I'd say it shows a lot of potential, here's hoping Paradox gives it the love it deserves!
(Sorry, this seemed to be the most appropriate thread to post this)
I like the game, but I tend to think it'll definitely need a "Vae Victis". My first two games have not gone the way I expect my forays in Paradox games to go. At least it's a challenge for me, so far. I haven't started as any of the really big ones, of course, but that doesn't sound very much fun anyway.
I have made a blitz mod which divides some big clans.
If you are annoying with the blobbing Yamana, please try it!
If you are annoying with the blobbing Yamana, please try it!
Funny you mention that. I played all of Nobunaga's Ambition and their newest one Tendo is the best. Far more tactical, last longer, more depth and have more replay value than Sengoku. A game that is all about blob race in 30 minutes is boring. Sorry but Paradox got this wrong. Depth in Sengoku is like 2 levels at best.
Oh and did I mention in Nobunaga's Ambition it's actually possible to fight warlords that are much bigger than your own? I won't say this game lacks polish, I like the heir system but really a lot is lacking. For starters the unlimited amount of horses and peasants that seemingly re-spawns is totally what is contributing to blobbing issue. A lack of AI respite against larger aggressors is another. While Sengoku 'claims' to be all about skillful characters, I really don't see much influence of skill level of any characters precisely because it is overshadowed by this blobbing issue.
Last edited:
^ This. defending against larger army is really hard. mostly do to this map design. sengoku is much smaller scale game than other paradox titles.. the narrow mountain passes that should make strong choke points are not here... "impassable mountains" should be not included in any province, they should be a wall.
The Yamana are utterly dead in my Toki game (1489). They got swarmed by Isshiki, Hatakeyama and Takeda.
I think what this thread really comes down to a select few people who like to either hide in a corner and rp all game or others who like David vs. Goliath stories and think David should win everytime. If Goliath wins once they cry "omg wtf this game's ai is overpowered and favors blobbing!" But if Paradox listens and breaks down the ai then another group or even maybe the same group will come in and cry "omg wtf this game's ai is too easy! It sucks! I started as a one province clan and chewed through a 36 province clan in 3 years!" Also I find this game pretty deep for what it's focus is. Sure the combat system is on the shallower side of Paradox titles, and the economic system is non-existant but the relationships, clans, and world are surprisingly deep.
This game comes down to 3 questions for a player: Do you want to win? If yes then you SHOULD play a moderate-to-large sized clan as that would be the most tactically sound choice. You should not your first game (when you don't even know how to play yet) play the tiniest clans on the map and expect to be the top dog in 10, 25, or even 50 years.
Which brings around question 2: Don't care about winning and just want to have a good experience, and just live life as a sengoku era clan? Then your strategy shouldn't be to make the big clans angry at you. Sure there is no non-aggression pacts, no alliances. But you don't need them to keep a big clan off your back. Build the crap outta your castle, and use hostages+gifts+master of ceremonies+a good leader diplomacy skill to keep the biggies off your back. Then if your game comes down to the battle of the blobs, then maybe you need to work with ninjas, the remaining small clans, and factions within the big clans to bring about civil wars in the big clans and bring the game back to square one. Just where you like it.
Finally question 3: Don't care about winning, but don't care about rping, you just want to have an enjoyable game, maybe even a laid back game? Then you should pick whatever clan you want, and stay on top of Japanese Politics. When clans get too big, take action against them before they get to you. Whether that action is cementing good relations, or plotting insurrections. Heck you can even Join em if it comes down to it. (can't beat em? Join em)
If all else fails. Mod it. Modding Paradox games is easy and popular. Most PC games are just the building blocks of the perfect gaming experience for you. Design it yourself, or beg someone else to. I'm sure people will be modding scenarios where no clan owns more then 1 province, and I'm sure people will be modding scenarios where clans only have 50 provinces or more.
This game comes down to 3 questions for a player: Do you want to win? If yes then you SHOULD play a moderate-to-large sized clan as that would be the most tactically sound choice. You should not your first game (when you don't even know how to play yet) play the tiniest clans on the map and expect to be the top dog in 10, 25, or even 50 years.
Which brings around question 2: Don't care about winning and just want to have a good experience, and just live life as a sengoku era clan? Then your strategy shouldn't be to make the big clans angry at you. Sure there is no non-aggression pacts, no alliances. But you don't need them to keep a big clan off your back. Build the crap outta your castle, and use hostages+gifts+master of ceremonies+a good leader diplomacy skill to keep the biggies off your back. Then if your game comes down to the battle of the blobs, then maybe you need to work with ninjas, the remaining small clans, and factions within the big clans to bring about civil wars in the big clans and bring the game back to square one. Just where you like it.
Finally question 3: Don't care about winning, but don't care about rping, you just want to have an enjoyable game, maybe even a laid back game? Then you should pick whatever clan you want, and stay on top of Japanese Politics. When clans get too big, take action against them before they get to you. Whether that action is cementing good relations, or plotting insurrections. Heck you can even Join em if it comes down to it. (can't beat em? Join em)
If all else fails. Mod it. Modding Paradox games is easy and popular. Most PC games are just the building blocks of the perfect gaming experience for you. Design it yourself, or beg someone else to. I'm sure people will be modding scenarios where no clan owns more then 1 province, and I'm sure people will be modding scenarios where clans only have 50 provinces or more.
Last edited:
We haven't played the same Tendou then, because even with the PUK the Takeda is still an unstoppable juggernault with insane character stats, the Uesugi and the Hojo get regularly crushed in between, I've never seen the Oda blob, within one decade you see clans with more than a million troops wander around, there are no resource limitation on the number of troops you can maintain, and there is next to no character interaction except through random events.
The exception I find is in Tenka Sousei (NA 11), which is the most fun NA that I have played since Lord of Darkness, and the closest to Sengoku, but even in it the character part of the game is limited.
Last edited:
I think its funny that people are complaining about the AI expanding and competing with each other, and calling this a "blob fest" would you prefer that the AI just sat on its hands doing nothing waiting for the player to attack it, and to be honest in most games its the player that is most guilty of "blobbing". I'm very impressed with the game so far, there are a few thing that could improve but this is one of the best paradox games at released in a long time, good job guys.
The thing I am having most issue with is how easy it is to keep your honor super high after you reached a certain size. This makes large "blobs" able to run with 100 honor and nothing on earth can shake vassal loyalty then. Using ninjas to bring down honor or trying to ruin relations with vassals becomes almost pointless when they are swimming in so much money that buying more honor is trivial. So the larger the more stable they become, which I doubt is what is intended. Still the game is a lot of fun, but this is bothering me slightly.
I think one of the reasons people are being able to blob easilly currently is that it is reasonably easy to sit on high honor, giving awesome relationship boosts with your vassals, avoiding civil wars and plots from the inside.
I think what needs to happen is that the honor system and the plot system both need to be re-worked. Like it has been said, right now it's far too easy to sit on high honor and keep your vassals happy all the time. Also, it seems to be far too difficult to get a plot going. Clans simply don't seem to want to join any plot I make against whatever clan is blobbing that game, and because of the vassal relation honor bonus, vassals wont join any plots either.
I love it! Completely agree! There are always those who complain because the one game they have played didn't turn out how they preferred. As you say, pick the starting point and the gameplay style that suits your requirements rather than say the whole game needs to be redesigned one day after release.
In my last game after a shaky start Yamana have dominated. They never take vassals or peace always completely destroying their enemies in one go, luckilly I am in the north but they are closing in and for some unknown reason Uesugi have not expanded at all after the start.
Anyway things I think could balance it slightly...
Honour seems too easy to maintain once you reach a certain size which doesnt help. Never really had an issue with low honour since I started playing, so know seppuku.
I also think rebellions from recently taken lands are just a slight annoyance and dont really cause enough of an issue or for long enough.
Use of terrain has not really come into it much either, it generally seems who has most (with morale) wins.
Also is it possible to restrict land access or some sort of penalty for having unconnected provinces? Yamana have territory all over the place all unconnected, I know this isnt Eu3 but in that it would be a lot more difficult to maintain whereas here they stomp around freely with no issues.
but they are closing in and for some unknown reason Uesugi have not expanded at all after the start.Anyway things I think could balance it slightly...
Honour seems too easy to maintain once you reach a certain size which doesnt help. Never really had an issue with low honour since I started playing, so know seppuku.
I also think rebellions from recently taken lands are just a slight annoyance and dont really cause enough of an issue or for long enough.
Use of terrain has not really come into it much either, it generally seems who has most (with morale) wins.
Also is it possible to restrict land access or some sort of penalty for having unconnected provinces? Yamana have territory all over the place all unconnected, I know this isnt Eu3 but in that it would be a lot more difficult to maintain whereas here they stomp around freely with no issues.
@ LordCanterbury
@Meanmanturbo,cykoticp, and Nemo29
I completely agree with you guys. Honour is an actual problem right now. It is too easy to acquire and maintain heaps of it. Making Seppuku non-existant and plots almost no-brainers. Because although they are usually costly in honour it is so easy to gain it back that it becomes trivial. So I think if Honour is rebalanced then Plots and other Honour-related activites, and gameplay mechanic issues (such as big clans with armies of incorruptable vassals) will also balance out. Maybe a 25-35% Nerf to the amount of Honour gained for everything is in order? or introduce a mechanic where the more provinces you own the slower you accrue honour?
@Meanmanturbo,cykoticp, and Nemo29
I completely agree with you guys. Honour is an actual problem right now. It is too easy to acquire and maintain heaps of it. Making Seppuku non-existant and plots almost no-brainers. Because although they are usually costly in honour it is so easy to gain it back that it becomes trivial. So I think if Honour is rebalanced then Plots and other Honour-related activites, and gameplay mechanic issues (such as big clans with armies of incorruptable vassals) will also balance out. Maybe a 25-35% Nerf to the amount of Honour gained for everything is in order? or introduce a mechanic where the more provinces you own the slower you accrue honour?
I think increasing the chance of vassel independence under big clans will make the game more interesting