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Derxxz

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Nov 3, 2022
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  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
Prior to reviewing this analysis, I must emphasize the basis of my perspective. My involvement with Victoria 3 predates its official release, and I have been an active mod developer for the game since that time. One of my mods continues to be ranked among the most popular available today. I offer this context to underscore the depth of my understanding regarding Victoria 3.

For those closely following Victoria 3, it should be apparent that the pace of DLC and major updates has slowed considerably compared to previous cycles. According to the typical development schedule, a significant update for Victoria 3 would have been expected in March. However, this has evidently been postponed until June.

The likely reason for this delay is a reduction in staffing within the Victoria 3 development team. It is reasonable to infer that personnel have been reassigned, potentially to bolster teams working on titles such as Hearts of Iron IV or Crusader Kings III.

Why would such reassignments occur? The underlying cause would logically be Victoria 3's underperformance. On this point, extensive elaboration is scarcely necessary; one need only consult the daily concurrent player statistics on Steam for Victoria 3 to observe the trend.

Furthermore, examining the recent announcements regarding upcoming content reveals a concerning pattern. The vast majority of the purported "updates"—with the notable exception of the trade system overhaul—constitute minor content additions, such as national flavor elements. This type of content, while potentially welcome, could readily be implemented by the modding community. Yet, this appears to form the bulk of the planned "DLC" strategy for the next year.

Therefore, based on these observations, I contend that Victoria 3, in its current trajectory, must be considered a failure.

It is crucial to stress that this failure is entirely attributable to internal decision-making. It is not the fault of the player base, nor can it be solely ascribed to external market conditions. The responsibility lies squarely with the Victoria 3 development team, or perhaps more specifically, with the game's lead designer(s). Over the past three years, this team has consistently made perplexing strategic choices:

Refusal to Reform the Military System: There has been a persistent unwillingness to overhaul the fundamentally flawed military system currently in place. I will not belabor the point excessively; if an individual perceives the existing system as adequate or even optimal, I can only express profound disagreement and difficulty in comprehending such a viewpoint.

Misguided DLC Prioritization: Even granting the development team myriad justifications for inaction on the military front, have other, more straightforward aspects been handled competently? Specifically, why did the team, over the past three years, elect to prioritize DLC development for regions like South America and India, rather than focusing on nations such as Japan, China, Germany,or the United States? It is highly probable that among the Victoria 3 player base, individuals primarily interested in the Chinese and American experiences vastly outnumber those focused on all other nations combined. Conversely, how substantial is the player segment genuinely invested in the South American or Indian content?

Lack of Strategic Cohesion: From the preceding points, it becomes evident that the V3 development team has failed on two critical fronts: they have neither significantly enhanced the game's core engagement and enjoyment ('fun'), nor have they successfully bolstered its commercial viability ('profitability'). Consequently, a decision by Paradox Interactive to deprioritize or potentially abandon further significant investment in Victoria 3 seems not only plausible but logical. Were I in a decision-making position at Paradox, I too would question the allocation of company resources over three years to a team demonstrating such a consistent pattern of baffling strategic choices.
 
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While I mostly agree with the criticism, I think the slower DLC scheduling is down to 1) the game's complexity and 2) how much work there is to be done for producing meaty DLCs, which is what the game needs right now.

Many CK3 and especially HOI4 DLC have, at this stage, come down to drawing colourful buttons that give you +20% of something, it's no wonder they can churn out this kind of DLC faster. Victoria 3 on the other hand is still in early development, one could say, so baking things takes time. And it's a generally more complex game, especially compared to CK3.
 
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For those closely following Victoria 3, it should be apparent that the pace of DLC and major updates has slowed considerably compared to previous cycles.
It's a very worrisome development that gives me Crusader Kings 3 flashbacks, another PDX game that has no future.
 
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I have no idea where this is coming from, I actually think the opposite. Victoria 3 has been the game where developers are doing most in terms of work with constant and consistent major changes game's mechanics. Arguably it is the most extreme content overhauls, reworks and additions since perhaps early Stellaris with them going way beyond the basics in what they change especially when you account for the complexity of systems involved. Lack of content for states also has been a major complaint from many players saying that there isn't enough flavor in the game, that's a view I disagree with but that's beyond the point since this type of content is demanded.
 
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If you compare it to other recently realesed GSG, vic3 is a great success. After Vic3, no GSG released has achieved its playerbase.

Considering that the game is very complex, updates cannot be developed to the same frequency than other games.

I can understand your frustation on the game not being what you want, but assessing success or failure needs to have a reference for what you were supposed to achieve.

For example, If we take the original DD as benchmark, we could say they have achieved almost all their goals.
 
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The reason that the DLCs seem kinda basic is that the patches feature extensive reworks. This is because Victoria 3 did in fact "fail", but not in the way you describe it. What happened is that a lot of their initial vision for the game turned out to not actually work so they're completely overhauling it. This takes time and can only be included in the DLCs themselves to a limited extent, so we get random flavor packs and a little bit of playing around with companies while the actual patches do the heavy lifting.

To go into some detail with this, the game launched with the idea that the player would have godlike control over the economy and heavily micromanage it. Every building thought out, every trade route carefully deliberated, that sort of thing. That's out the window now, the investment pool is now AI controlled, the next update will automate trade, and I wouldn't be surprised if manually choosing PMs and building construction sectors were also getting tossed soon. They're basically reinventing the core of their game, it's not like there's some skeleton crew doing so, it's just that extensive reworks take time.
 
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This all does not matter as long as the income factors for the game are still okay. When Paradox accepts that covid era profit margins are not a thing anymore and start to operate on more reasonable metrics things will change.

If the DLC sell well, keep the brand running and the staff paid there is no reason to cancel anything. Does a hand full of people more in the next big title really help to sell the risk of the new game better or keep earning on exisiting titles?
 
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If the aim of Victoria 3 was to be a huge success, equalling the players of EU4 or HOI4, it's certainly a "failure".

But I don't think anyone really expected such a result (or maybe the shareholders?), because the game is very niche in principle (and even then, it's very watered down compared to even more hardcore/excel simulations).

It's quite simple, on every subject in this game, and I mean every subject, there are endless discussions between the supporters of this or that approach, those who want even more complexity and the endless off-topic criticisms of "yes, this representation of the opium trade could be improved, but I want the fronts of HOI4".

So by its very nature, Victoria 3 won't be able to match the simplicity of a tactical game like HOI4, or an excel minmaxer like EU4 (no hatred towards those two games, they're very good, but in their own style), so the target is smaller in terms of number of players.

Finally, as has been said endlessly in this thread, ‘minor’ modifications can have amplified effects due to the complexity of the simulation. Apart from the trade overhaul, it has been hinted that the immersion packs will probably be accompanied by new modifications/additions to the mechanics.

It's been over a year now since the free updates offered major overhauls and mechanics, while charging for an expansion for what seems to be just flavour, because the new mechanics have to be free (and thanks for that)!
So it might seem that the content for the year is just "images, music, and content that could be made by mods", but i dont think they'll take 6 month just for an Austrian JE...
 
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I'm frankly afraid that this all signifies the decrease in allocated resources. Which would be only consistent with the declared statement of "last year the game has finally hit its stride".
I really hope I'm wrong.
You are, in fact, quite wrong.

From the Discord server:
Alexhesse said:
depends how you count, but we're roughly 30 between code, design, art, qa, production, ux.

how would that compare with something like EU4 or HOI4
idk how large those are at the moment, honestly. maybe equivalent? EU4 might be a bit smaller? CK is definitely larger at least

From the subreddit:
KaiserJohan said:
No shortage of ideas, mostly bottlenecked by lack of programmers. We are currently hiring so anyone interested feel free to apply!

I think that's about as comprehensive as we can get currently regarding this "reduction in staffing within the Victoria 3 development team", or rather that it is not happening to the scale originally claimed.
 
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Can we just not? You're free to have your opinions, but that doesn't mean you need to share them. Especially when it's the same boring complaints; a refusal to recognize the military system both has been changed and will be changed again, and an insistence that any DLC not focused on their favorite geography is a waste. If you're going to be doing this again, at least have some original or novel thoughts.
 
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The game hasn't sell as good as others PDX bestsellers. But I think it still has a lot of potential to do so. Vic3 could be a "late bloomer" masterpiece, it has a solid base to become that.

Regarding the speed of DLCs/update development:
I don't think its accurate to compare it to other PDX games. Other titles are on one hand simpler and on the other hand also more "finished" so the core of the game isn't being touched at all at that point. Victoria 3 is not only developing DLCs, is also continuing the development of the core game itself, making big and radical changes that the game needs.

Regarding military and other changes:
I strongly disagree with you. I don't think the military system should be radically changed. As a fan of Vic2, EU4 or CK3 I have to stay that I don't miss the classical toy soldier movement in the map that much, to the point that I have questioned myself if these other games could actually benefit from getting rid of this lazy core mechanic and focusing on exploring new, deeper and more modern mechanics. Of course the military in Vic3 is still buggy and lacking in some aspects (specially at sea...), but I don't think a 180 degrees change in the military is that change that would turn this game into a much better game at all. At least not for now, not until the economics game loop (buildings, trade, production methods, etc) has completed its actual 180 degrees change that it started with the automated private sector construction, its continuing with the automated world marked trade, and I hope it finishes with something related to how Production Methods work. The economic game loop was the biggest flaw the game had at launch, the biggest most needed change, not the military. Another very important thing the game is missing is a good AI, and I want think that devs are waiting to finish the core game changes to improve the AI, a change that is for sure more needed too in the game right now than being able to manually move our armies in the map from state to state.
 
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The problem is that all these updates and DLCs should have been an enhancement for an already great game, and not a way to fix a game that was released at a low state. Of course when you begin low, any improvement looks massive in comparison. I feel with each iteration, players say "this how the game should have looked like at release", along the game sitting on mixed reviews with it's DLCs have mixed reception overall, this doesn't inspire confidence. And doesn't help that some of these additions players actively dislike or already are requesting for a rework of them.
 
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I think the Vic3's dev team greatest strength is their humility when it comes to the game (post-launch, as I remember very much how entrenched they were on the flag occupation thing pre release, for example).

The devs have reworked, to varying degrees of success, many of the core systems. Much of this rework has been driven by player feedback (Voice of the People is a perfect example).

The work the devs have put in 2024 showed to me that this game actually will have a good future, maybe even a great one.

Also, I was a base game only player (plus south america DLC, couldn't help myself) up until yesterday. Every major update the game had, I felt as a base game only player, I always had something meaty to look forward to. This was a great thing that kept me invested in the title. It is thanks to the work they put into 2024 that I now have enough trust on the team to buy DLCs for this game, which is what I just did yesterday.

And I say all of this when my biggest gripe with the game is the naval gameplay, which is not even getting any major updates this year.
 
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Can we just not? You're free to have your opinions, but that doesn't mean you need to share them. Especially when it's the same boring complaints; a refusal to recognize the military system both has been changed and will be changed again, and an insistence that any DLC not focused on their favorite geography is a waste. If you're going to be doing this again, at least have some original or novel thoughts.
The same principle applies to you. If you're going to shoot down someone else's post, at least put in some effort, otherwise you don't need to do it either.
 
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Vic 3 is quite literally the most exciting game Paradox has out right now.

- HoI4 and EU4 are continuing to bolt on uninteresting content to a bloated design framework collapsing under its own weight
- CK3 is stuck in a rut, and while the China stuff this year is cool, it has really deep problems that I’m not sure it will ever overcome at this point. Maybe next year?
- Vic 3 has issues, but the devs are actively solving those issues, and their roadmap suggests they see the same strengths and weaknesses I do, which is reassuring.

I’m tired of this “Vic 3 is failing” nonsense. Vic 3 is in a great place and has a bright future. Every patch makes the game significantly better. It’s also the only game doing what it’s doing.
 
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Vic 3 is quite literally the most exciting game Paradox has out right now.

- HoI4 and EU4 are continuing to bolt on uninteresting content to a bloated design framework collapsing under its own weight
- CK3 is stuck in a rut, and while the China stuff this year is cool, it has really deep problems that I’m not sure it will ever overcome at this point. Maybe next year?
- Vic 3 has issues, but the devs are actively solving those issues, and their roadmap suggests they see the same strengths and weaknesses I do, which is reassuring.

I’m tired of this “Vic 3 is failing” nonsense. Vic 3 is in a great place and has a bright future. Every patch makes the game significantly better. It’s also the only game doing what it’s doing.
Stellaris?
 
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Stellaris?
Stellaris is their best supported game. Hands down. The Custodian Initiative has become a brand such that I've seen people talk about wanting one in games that have nothing to do with Paradox.

That said, Victoria 3 has a lot of potential. It is overhauling every aspect of its design with every major patch or so.
 
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While Victoria was always the most niche among their main franchises with arguably a longer learning curve, some critical decisions played a big part in holding its potential back. It could be a break for title given the hype that surrounded its release. Warfare simply plays a massive part in this. I'm still playing and it's still as bad as it was at launch and still the worst Paradox ever designed. It's a damn shame considering the game does many other things the best Paradox did.

However the DLCs so far focusing on even more niche places is certainly not helping. Just take a look at HoI4 and Vic3's DLC route. HoI4 didn't even need to lure or reengage the players and potential buyers but it went for things that would be more popular. Brazil? India? I mean they broke Italian unification to market power blocs, they should really have been going for the easy wins instead. We're getting more things than we did for Vic2 but what we got for Vic2 did boost the game while this new content I never engaged with. And I have like a dozen different country runs with 3 of them I replay with big patches to see if they're and the game is truly fixed.

P.S: they aren't and it isn't. There is progress but more of a two steps ahead, one step back style. Like, why are building waiting for a month to hire in a game that only lasts 100 years? Make a "I don't run this on a potato and I don't care about 5 speed" option already.
 
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Stellaris?
NGL, I don’t play it and forgot about it. I hear good things, but AFAIK it’s fairly different. I like that they change the foundation as necessary, but also being fictional gives them that space as there’s no expectation for it to be a specific thing, or for specific mechanics to be added for accuracy.

That said, are people excited about it? I think they’re largely happy with it and satisfied by the continued development, but I think what makes Vic exciting to me is that there is literally no other game that does what Vic does. I’m not sure that’s true of Stellaris, although, again, I don’t play it so IDK.
 
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