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usnstarkey

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After watching some of the more recent live streams I finally got a look at some of the units cards. I haven't watched every single stream, so this is not intended to be a comprehensive analysis.

There does appear to be a pretty glaring issue however with the frontal armor of the Panther. The game appears to give each tank one armor value for each side, which is fine. But what does not make sense to me is the very low frontal armor value that the Panther is given, 12. The tiger appears to get 14 for some reason.

The reason this is a problem is that the Panthers armor relative to the Tiger was considerably better across the frontal arc. The Tiger had 100-110mm of flat frontal armor. The Panther had 100mm turret, 110mm Mantlet, and 85mm on the Front Upper Hull.

So while the turret would be similar in armor value, the Upper Hull was not. 85mm at 55deg come out to being worth about 221mm of RHA vs a 75-76mm APCBC shell. Protection would vary depending on projectile type and diameter. Even a simplistic LOS calculation would yield 140mm.

To be clear, I am not implying that this game need have some kind of complicated ballistics, or that every tank be exactly perfect. But I do think it is important to for tanks to have accurate relative characteristics based on actual reality generally speaking.

Most of the tank cards I saw seemed to have armor values that closely corresponded in most cases to the real steel thickness if the armor value in game were multiplied by ten. For example, the Pz4H has 8 frontal armor, nicely corresponding to 80mm of RHA. This may be coincidence, however. This is one reason though I do not understand the Panther or Tiger armor values. The tiger gets a value of 14. And the Panther 12. Relatively speaking, I would seem appropriate to at the very least reverse this relationship.

Sidenote: Some of the other Panther variants have as high as 140. But they should still be higher than a Tiger.
 
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It's not perfect but during the beta they told us not to concern ourselves with unit balance so it's still a WIP. The Red Dragon VIP beta had lots of placeholder stats too.
 
It's possible that concessions will have to be made for balance too, which will no doubt cause some excellent threads on the forum.

As in Wargame I'm not seeing this.
Of course some concessions have to be done due to the rather "Limited" 20/21 point scale obviously, but otherwise I believe it can be balanced via point-costs/ availability.
 
This is one reason though I do not understand the Panther or Tiger armor values. The tiger gets a value of 14. And the Panther 12. Relatively speaking, I would seem appropriate to at the very least reverse this relationship.

Tiger 1s used unusual armour in their glassis which was impenetrable by the 17 pdr at 600 metres in British tests (supposedly some sort of steel titanium alloy). The mantlet of the Panther on the other hand was found to be easily penetrable.
 
Just don't worry to much about it OP. After all it is a game.

You just can not convert something like a tank armor into a simple number without making massive simplifications.

Alloys and such aside. Maybe a sloped panther front side is harder to penetrate than a tiger front side for a straight horizontal shot.

But what about a PIAT round that hits after flying a ballistic trajectory? It might hit perpendicular to the front armor of the panther, finding it easier to penetrate than a vertical steel plate...

After all this is no physics simulation, it's basically a board game, with a lot of dice rolling in the background...
 
Alloys and such aside. Maybe a sloped panther front side is harder to penetrate than a tiger front side for a straight horizontal shot.
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Which is the case obviously, but most hits are to the mantlet, so that is likely the deciding factor in armour penetration. We will see once the game is released and modders can get at the code.
 
Tiger 1s used unusual armour in their glassis which was impenetrable by the 17 pdr at 600 metres in British tests (supposedly some sort of steel titanium alloy). The mantlet of the Panther on the other hand was found to be easily penetrable.

No? 17-pounders could kill Tiger 1s from 2 km away through most of the front armor with APCBC. It had a decent chance with straight AP, and (assuming it hit, which is quite an assumption) APDS could kill it from ~3km.

In terms of relative front armor (no numbers), for German tanks: Tiger II (H) > Tiger II (P) >> Panther > Tiger I > Panzer IV G/J/H.
 
No? 17-pounders could kill Tiger 1s from 2 km away through most of the front armor with APCBC. It had a decent chance with straight AP, and (assuming it hit, which is quite an assumption) APDS could kill it from ~3km.

In terms of relative front armor (no numbers), for German tanks: Tiger II (H) > Tiger II (P) >> Panther > Tiger I > Panzer IV G/J/H.

You would think so, but in practice the tests against an actual tiger with APC did not penetrate at 600 metres. Brits used AP or APC, never APCBC till post war.