It occurs to me that only the Vanguard and Dvar are full pure human factions

[Draxynnic]

Runner Flavor Text doh.

That in itself isn't really conclusive, since "aptitude for PsiTec" might not mean "psychic". I think there is another indication somewhere, though.

Some degree of psionic aptitude seems to be common among all races - since they can all make use of psionic secret techs. Outside of secret techs, though, it seems that the Kir'ko are the only ones who are capable of meaningful psionics without amplifying it with technology.

 

[Goblin-Cookie]

In fact, it implies that they need them for survival even on worlds that others would consider fairly habitable, although that could be because they have weak immune systems due to being in suits most of the time.

Which makes it an environmental/nurture dependency. Having spent all their lives in the suits, their nurture has made them unable to survive without them since ordinary hazards like sunlight and bacteria are not something they ever had to deal with.

There is not really enough time in the 300-400 years since the fall of the star union for the Dvar to actually have naturally evolved into something inherently incapable of surviving without a suit.

i am not sure syndicate are even particularly psychic, their theme seems to be more mastery of psychic technology.

The syndicate are ruled by psychics, but the syndicate faction are not the same thing as the syndicate rulers which can presumably also change if they get conquered by a non-syndicate player. The faction in general is actually referred to as the Outlanders, the syndicate are actually just the rulers of the outlanders but the game calls them that even if they are not presently ruled by any actual syndicate. I guess it is similar to how the game calls generic humans Vanguard even though there are only three actual Vanguards in the game (Jack Gelder, Michael Valentine and Huy Jiang), since so many centuries have passed.

The issue is whether the syndicate *rulers* are biologically modified to be psychics or have evolved to be so over the millennia of the star union's existence or whether they just use training and technology which they have monopolised.

 

[Ethorin]

...it's VERY explicitly been 200 years.

 

[Hopit]

I don't know how to react to someone saying that Dvars are a full pure human faction and Amazons are not.

 

[DmUa]

I don't know how to react to someone saying that Dvars are a full pure human faction and Amazons are not.

- normally? One are heavily genetically engeenered single sex race, while other are just people in heavy duty hazmat suits.

 

[Hopit]

- normally? One are heavily genetically engeenered single sex race, while other are just people in heavy duty hazmat suits.

And are ½ the size vertically

 

[Gyor]

I don't know how to react to someone saying that Dvars are a full pure human faction and Amazons are not.

They would not be the first short humans, look at Pygmies, but a race of unigendered humans is a much more radical departure biologically.

Still I wasn't refering to the humaniod Amazons, but rather to their Alien Pets, like Shrieks, Tyranndons, Aboreans, and Aborean Queens for example.

 

[DmUa]

And are ½ the size vertically

- well, first: we dont know true size of Dvars inside dvr suits. Second: even of they all have shrunk, it is still a natural adaptation to a harsher natural conditions - gravity is a bitch you know.

 

[Ethorin]

...like, everyone but the Kir'ko is some flavour of posthuman.

 

[Gyor]

Which makes it an environmental/nurture dependency. Having spent all their lives in the suits, their nurture has made them unable to survive without them since ordinary hazards like sunlight and bacteria are not something they ever had to deal with.

There is not really enough time in the 300-400 years since the fall of the star union for the Dvar to actually have naturally evolved into something inherently incapable of surviving without a suit.



The syndicate are ruled by psychics, but the syndicate faction are not the same thing as the syndicate rulers which can presumably also change if they get conquered by a non-syndicate player. The faction in general is actually referred to as the Outlanders, the syndicate are actually just the rulers of the outlanders but the game calls them that even if they are not presently ruled by any actual syndicate. I guess it is similar to how the game calls generic humans Vanguard even though there are only three actual Vanguards in the game (Jack Gelder, Michael Valentine and Huy Jiang), since so many centuries have passed.

The issue is whether the syndicate *rulers* are biologically modified to be psychics or have evolved to be so over the millennia of the star union's existence or whether they just use training and technology which they have monopolised.

I believe there is a Syndicate Tech that mentions that the Syndicate use selective breeding among their noble houses and sometimes beyond for Psionic talent, but I don't remember which one.

There Psitech is basically like Cyrbro from X-Men, but with for more varied uses as well as batteries that can convert that energy to electricity.

 

[Draxynnic]

Which makes it an environmental/nurture dependency. Having spent all their lives in the suits, their nurture has made them unable to survive without them since ordinary hazards like sunlight and bacteria are not something they ever had to deal with.

There is not really enough time in the 300-400 years since the fall of the star union for the Dvar to actually have naturally evolved into something inherently incapable of surviving without a suit.

Yeah, that's probably what's going on with the Dvar, but it's possible that their evolution has still been...accelerated somewhat. Regardless, my gut feeling is that genetically they're probably still compatible with homo sapiens, while Amazons might not be.

I guess it is similar to how the game calls generic humans Vanguard even though there are only three actual Vanguards in the game (Jack Gelder, Michael Valentine and Huy Jiang), since so many centuries have passed.

There are others in the campaign that I'd say have been put on assignments that would be typical for the Vanguard, even if those assignments are not the primary purpose of the Vanguard. The point of the Vanguard seems to be that they're a branch of the Star Union military that can be freely sent on deployments that involve never going home (or at least not until decades or centuries later).

Since their military is formed along typical Star Union lines, it makes sense that any 'normal' humans that remain in the 'present day' of the Star Union would have their military forces arrayed along similar lines. One could argue that non-Vanguard humans might have some Imperial vehicles instead of Vanguard vehicles (Buggies instead of Assault Bikes, Dragonflies instead of Gunships, Behemoths instead of Laser Tanks, Imperial Walkers instead of Vanguard Walkers), but in practice, these substitutions probably wouldn't have enough gameplay significance to be worth programming in, and it's entirely possible that the Paragons kept these units for their own armies.

 

[Vladisi]

Yeah, that's probably what's going on with the Dvar, but it's possible that their evolution has still been...accelerated somewhat. Regardless, my gut feeling is that genetically they're probably still compatible with homo sapiens, while Amazons might not be.

I don't see why not. Their campaign makes it implicit that the Amazons view radical changes to genetics as an abomination. They also don't look any different from a woman in peak physical condition, and there is no mention anywhere of them being much different from normal humans.

 

[Blastom]

How about AoW3? Only 1 race is human, the others are purely non-human.
At least, in Planetfall, there're 5 races are based on human.

 

[Goblin-Cookie]

Yeah, that's probably what's going on with the Dvar, but it's possible that their evolution has still been...accelerated somewhat. Regardless, my gut feeling is that genetically they're probably still compatible with homo sapiens, while Amazons might not be.

There are others in the campaign that I'd say have been put on assignments that would be typical for the Vanguard, even if those assignments are not the primary purpose of the Vanguard. The point of the Vanguard seems to be that they're a branch of the Star Union military that can be freely sent on deployments that involve never going home (or at least not until decades or centuries later).

Since their military is formed along typical Star Union lines, it makes sense that any 'normal' humans that remain in the 'present day' of the Star Union would have their military forces arrayed along similar lines. One could argue that non-Vanguard humans might have some Imperial vehicles instead of Vanguard vehicles (Buggies instead of Assault Bikes, Dragonflies instead of Gunships, Behemoths instead of Laser Tanks, Imperial Walkers instead of Vanguard Walkers), but in practice, these substitutions probably wouldn't have enough gameplay significance to be worth programming in, and it's entirely possible that the Paragons kept these units for their own armies.

The problem is old age. 3 centuries have passed since the fall of the Star Union, which means that any original members of the Vanguard program will have died of old age, if they have not become paragons. So the Vanguard faction are really only the grandchildren of the original Vanguards, even if they have some lineage in that direction. Aside from three specific examples to the contrary that survived for centuries in cyrosleep, not many who were part of the Star Union's Vanguard program will actually still be alive.

I don't see why not. Their campaign makes it implicit that the Amazons view radical changes to genetics as an abomination. They also don't look any different from a woman in peak physical condition, and there is no mention anywhere of them being much different from normal humans.

They do not have aggression, an amazon never gets angry, this is pretty different from a normal human. They also have no males, which is very different from most species. They did not have to change their external appearance, the differences are all on the inside.

(Some?) Amazons see radical changes to genetics as an abomination because they *are* such a radical change. It suggests in any manner of speaking the Amazons passively regret their own existence, as they are biologically pared down creatures; simplified, homogeneous and basically somebody's ideal of perfection. They cannot seek their own self-destruction as that would imply aggression but I think they still mildly regret being someone's else's ideal of a perfect human woman.

 

[HousePet]

And are ½ the size vertically

So people with Dwarfism aren't Human?
I strongly doubt you mean that, nor are you implying a single genetic mutation constitutes a new species.
Maybe just didn't think it through enough...

 

[Draxynnic]

The problem is old age. 3 centuries have passed since the fall of the Star Union, which means that any original members of the Vanguard program will have died of old age, if they have not become paragons. So the Vanguard faction are really only the grandchildren of the original Vanguards, even if they have some lineage in that direction. Aside from three specific examples to the contrary that survived for centuries in cyrosleep, not many who were part of the Star Union's Vanguard program will actually still be alive.

I'm trying to avoid dropping too many spoilers in this thread, but suffice it to say that cryosleep on a planet is a thing, and there are more Vanguard commanders that were alive when the Star Union fell.

They do not have aggression, an amazon never gets angry, this is pretty different from a normal human. They also have no males, which is very different from most species. They did not have to change their external appearance, the differences are all on the inside.

(Some?) Amazons see radical changes to genetics as an abomination because they *are* such a radical change. It suggests in any manner of speaking the Amazons passively regret their own existence, as they are biologically pared down creatures; simplified, homogeneous and basically somebody's ideal of perfection. They cannot seek their own self-destruction as that would imply aggression but I think they still mildly regret being someone's else's ideal of a perfect human woman.

I don't think this is actually their thinking, given that some of the fluff indicates they actively recruit more women into their ranks when given the opportunity.

I suspect it's actually more likely that they think their ancestors have already done a good enough job that they don't want someone ruining it, and in particular:

Spoiler

They don't like what Berhane was doing because, first, Berhane was looking to make super-soldiers and the Amazons, for all they've been designed to be physically superior to most human women, generally do not approve of the idea of their race being militarised to that extent, and second, because Berhane was using Xenoplague to do so, and that seems to specifically go against Amazon principles (because, among other things, it does some nasty things to the environment).

Personally, I tend to think of the Amazons as being a somewhat more extreme analogy to the society of David Brin's Glory Season book. They may have been the creation of past genetic engineering, but they're happy with what they've got right now and don't feel the need to change that, thank you very much.

 

[square0]

How about AoW3? Only 1 race is human, the others are purely non-human.
At least, in Planetfall, there're 5 races are based on human.

You say that like "based on human" means anything. If you just changed the origin, elves, dwarves, halflings and even frostlings could be considered based on humans. Hell, you could even port something like tigrans over to this game and say they're humans with spliced DNA.

 

[The Founder]

It occurs to me that only the Vanguard and Dvar are full human factions.

The Indentured can come from Kir'ko populations as well as human, the Assembly has no problem harvesting Kir'ko and other biological aliens for parts and future Cyborgs, and Amazons have Alien units like Aboreans.

There are innumerable mistakes with this:
- Amazons use some genemodding and cloning, but are fundamentally still human. And as somebody else said, the Arborean is nothing more or less then a human with a horse or a wardog.
- Indentured can be created from anything Infantery using the Subjugators collar. Including Kirko and Assembly Cyborgs (they loose their cyborg Status, btw.). However there is plenty of other units that are based on non-indentured in the Syndicate roster. Indeed most of them are non indentured.
But I think this is mostly a gameplay consideration - there are dangers if you just allow them to MC and keep every unit. It is the same reason Celestian Mind Control turns vcitims into Colonists. And Amazon MC only works on Animals (whose tiers are limited). And they explicitly mentioned looking out for this issue this time.
- indeed all the Syndicate Psionics is based explicitly on "PsiTec" technological devices, so there is no inherent Psionic Potential in them.
- the Campaign explicitly mentions that Kirko Pysiology resist the "Reassembly". Afaik the only thing that can use their corpses is the Reengieneer. The Assembly do also seem to use some degree of cloning to get new base bodies to modify.

 

[Vladisi]

They do not have aggression, an amazon never gets angry, this is pretty different from a normal human. They also have no males, which is very different from most species. They did not have to change their external appearance, the differences are all on the inside.

I doubt that inhibiting anger is enough to not be genetically compatible with regular humans. There are people in real life that have no sexual drive or are incapable of empathy and genuine bigotry, and yet they are able to productively copulate with the rest just fine (theoretically in the first case, at least). And Amazons don't have males because they create their children through artificial means, so it's purely a cultural thing. And as was already mentioned, they sometimes recruit women from at least human settlements descended into ignorance.

 

[Devanor]

i am not sure syndicate are even particularly psychic, their theme seems to be more mastery of psychic technology.

Indeed, they're using PsiTech items for the psionic attacks. They're as human as the Vanguard.