Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

Jurchen, Korea, Japan.

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Another option I thought of was the korean emperor assuming the title of shogun and ruling Japan as shogun and korea as emperor, but it seemed bland and redundant, additionally one plot twist you could have is that the leading korean general rebels and declares himself shogun(!) and then turns his sights on korea as well, eventually trying to dominate both! While it may seem implausible it certainly would be fun (at least to imagine....)

The only main problem is that there are TOO many options we have to trim down the number of choices for each to 3 or less, for instance number 1 and 2 for korea could be pretty much combined, one puppet isn't so different from another, for japan I'd maybe slash number 6, 5, and maybe 3, 1 and 2 should maybe be used as was said earlier with each emperor chossing to administer things a different way
 
Due to the lack of input on my posts I'm going to go ahead with my plan of having Jurchen be vassals of Korea due to Korea assisting them in their revolt from under the Mongols, and having Ashikaga shikki control the southern part of Japan under vassalage of Korea.

Here's the history for Korea:

In the the 10th century the kingdom of Goryeo dominated the Korean peninsular, unifying the warring Korean kingdoms. this powerful dynasty was threatened by the Mongol invasion in the 13th century, but was able to weather the storm of Genghis, Ogedei and Mongke, until the death of Qubilai at the hands of Ariq Boke and the slow collapse of the Mongol empire. In 1360, upon the death of the young Toluid Khan (insert name here), grandson of Ariq Boke, the Jurchen began a concerted revolt to throw the Mongols out of Manchuria. Seeing this opportunity, the king of Goryeo supported this revolt, sending powerful armies to support the nomad tribes. By 1376 the revolt was successful, and Goryeo was now de facto administrator of Manchuria, backed by the military power of the Jurchen tribes. In 1380 a large raid by Japanese pirates resulted in a large military campaign by General Yi Sung-gye which resulted not only in the crushing defeat of the pirates, but in the conquest of Kyushu itself. Holding onto this area would be difficult until the arrival of the Ashikaga, in revolt against Japan, to assist in administrating Kyushu as vassals of Goryeo.

Is that cool? MattyG, could you alter the startup to make Jurchen vassals of Korea, and create a new nation "Ashikaga Shikki" which controls the provinces that Korea currently controls in Japan, and is a vassal of Korea. Any generic graphics would work at the moment for the Ashikaga, but can anyone provide shield graphics and stuff for the Ashikaga?

EDIT: Also I'd like to expand Korea's borders a bit. If they lose those Japanese provinces they'll drop to just two provinces, which just isn't enough for what we're asking them to do. I suggest we give Jilin and Liaotung to Korea, as parts of these areas were directly controlled by Korean kingdoms at times anyway, and move Jurchen capital north to Heilongjiang, to signify that the Jurchen tribes power is in the barren north, not the rich south, which is ripe for Korean expansion.
 
Last edited:
Don_Quigleone,

I don't know..... I understand were you are coming from, having too many options, I mean I have seen it on 0 AD (the freeware game I work with as an Historian) in the past.

But... I think the diveristy is good thing. Let me explain: Having so many options means increased playbility. I mean with so many options ideally a person would want to play as either Goryeo or Japan many times over just to see what happens when they choose another path...

But it is your mod first and formost, and the decision is yours.

If you really must cut off some options, or combine them, here is my suggestions:

Goryeo:

1. Puppets, rule through the Ashikaga shikken. Later if you are successful depose the Ashikaga and use the Tenno as a puppet if you choose. Or let the Ashikaga become shoguns.

2. Conquer through martial means. Create bonds between Goryeo and Imperial Japan through marriage, and then use those ties to combine your two countries into one empire. With Goryeo on top of course. hehe.

3. Use your culture to conquer Japan. This option would involve exterminating Japan as we know it, and replace it with an extension of Korean culture. Assimilation is the key here. Should be made incredibly difficult.

Imperial Japan:

1. The Tenno rules more or less directly, with the Court actually involved. Each new Tenno can either rule in the traditional Japanese manner or use the Kotei System of Chinese style imperial rule.

2. The Ikko-Ikki seize control of Japan. In this case the Ikko-Ikki movment becomes powerful enough to ask the Court to allow them to form a government, which they do and promptly sideline the Court. Should be a radical government that is wild to play.

3. One clan gains dominance and military goverment is restored. In this line one samurai clan is able to achieve dominace over the others and the nobility/officials. This clan then forms a Bakufu and sidelines the Court once more.

Rhodz,

I like your proposal, it sounds very good and well thought out, a solid foundation to build up on. Which is very important in writing AH in my opinion. My only problem is that I'll have to rewrite the background on Imperial Japan, as in your timeline the invasion occurs after Go-Daigo's lifetime, by twenty years or so. He and The Kemmu Restoration were more or less the center of my TL's current setup.
 
Sorry, I really had to find the kind of guy who could legitimately lead such an expedition against Japan. General Yi is pretty much the only guy, considering he didn;t have to deal with the Red Turbans or the Mongols or attempting to overthrow the throne, he could've done it in AH.

Would your history need a lot of rewriting?
 
Rhodz,

Well yeah it would take some work to rewrite the history to fit in with your background for Goryeo. But I believe I can do it, because on second thought the rewrite will not be so hard as I feared.

Because of the lateness of the hour I shall have the rewrote background for Japan up tomorrow in the morning hopefully. I hope you all will like it.

BTW I like your use of Yi Seonggye as the commanding general of the invasion. He rocked in real life and he'll rock here too.
 
@ rhodz seems good, Though an event will have to be added to allow korea to inherit the ashikaga (maybe after they revolt?) additionally it could be scripted so that as korea conquers territory in japan they secede it, how exactly this would work I'm not sure of, however you're right about korea needing more territory... maybe every year they should receive "tribute" from their japanese and manchurian subjects(maybe about 3/4 of the base tax of those two countries?), very much alleviating any troubles in the early game. Besides that your model seems perfect

@Shogun 144 The main reason why it would be best to reduce choice isn't so much for gameplay (though too much choice can be a very bad thing) but more for simple logistics, I can't see us writing 5 fully fledged paths for each nation, better to have 3 really good and diverse paths rather than 5 mediocre ones right? In addition while some of the choices I outlined were different in real life terms, in gameplay they'd be quite similiar, Besides that your new outlined path seems pretty much perfect and streamlined.

Finally how will culture be handled in all of this, and also one thing we haven't really thought of is what japan will do for the rest of the game if they pull through?
 
The Background for Imperial Japan, take two.


Go-Daigo launches his revolt as usual. When Go-Daigo Tenno came to the throne he was determined to restore Imperial rule over Japan. The Hojo Shikki, operating at much greater strength then in real life, oppose him. Nevertheless many clans respond to Go-Daigo's call to aid, as the samurai's primary loyalty is to the Chrysanthemum Throne, not the Bakufu. The Hojo in turn use Go-Daigo's refusal to heed to the already agreed upon alternating succession within the Imperial clan as a means of balancing out his power on the political field. The Jimyoin-to line declares support for the Hojo, and the Shikki suddenly gain new legitimacy as the restorers of order. The Hojo and Go-Daigo's forces tear Japan apart in a massive civil war as the exiled Tenno attempts to make his way to Kyoto, and the Hojo try everything in their power to stop him from reaching it.

The war is hard going. Unlike in real life Go-Daigo actually listens to his commanders, and the new Imperial Army is more then able to hold its own on the field of battle against the Hojo army, being led by such personalities as Kusunoki Masashige and Nitta Yoshisada,. But the Hojo Army is equally skilled and well led, primarily in the person of Ashikaga Takauji. The wandering Go-Daigo, despite the very temporary nature of his court, amazingly begins a series of reforms of the basic Imperial system itself. The Kemmu Reformation becomes Go-Daigo's greatest legacy. This Reformation basically contained the entirety of the Tenno's plans to remake the Japanese monarchy along Chinese lines, ruling like a 'Kotei' instead of a 'Tenno'. This provides the Hojo with much needed ammunition, as they point out that Go-Daigo would rule like a foreigner, rather then the Japanese way. In time the principal actors of the conflict all die with their dreams of a re-unified Japan unfulfilled. But the war itself does not end, and instead the Hojo-Imperial War continues.

The Korean Arrival changes all this. By 1380 the conflict between the two 'courts' had continued for some time. By this time the Hojo, who had started out strong, had become increasing weakened and were now a non factor in the conflict. Ironically the master puppeteers had themselves become puppets of the powerful Ashikaga Yoshimitsu. But neither side was ready for what awaited them across the sea. The Korean Goryeo dynasty had become increasing strong in recent years, and the continual pest of the Wako pirates who plagued the seas had finally drove Kaesong to the end of the rope. Yi Seonggye, Goryeo's best general, invades Japan to end the pirate threat under the Supreme King's orders. Before anyone can react Goryeo forces had not only landed on Japanese soil, but the whole island of Kyushu had been lost to the invaders. Suddenly the whole situation had changed. Uprisings occurred all over Japan as furious peasants and samurai alike were determined to overthrow the government they viewed as responsible for actually allowing an invasion of Japanese soil: The Hojo Shikki. Before long Kamakura itself was destroyed and the Hojo clan annihilated. In the midst of the chaos Imperial forces under Chokei Tenno entered Kyoto and declared the rightful government restored, making the Hojo to be the rebels. The Ashikaga, realizing the jig was up, had fled with their followers west ward to Kyushu in the chaos were they presented themselves to the Goryeo, who accepted them with open arms, allowing the Ashikaga to form a regency not unlike the Hojo. The Imperials meanwhile had set themselves up in Kyoto as the only legitimate government, which was easily accepted by the peasants and samurai.

Now a much greater war was waged. Led by General Yi Korean forces continued to advance, slowed down only by the revolts of the peasantry and greater samurai clans, chief among whom were the Shimazu of Satsuma, renown strategists and fiercely independent. This gave time to the still forming Imperial government, which was encountering resistance from the court officials and nobility to the Kotei System of rule used by Chokei Tenno and his officials and nobility. But the pressing matter of Goryeo's steady advance forced them work together, and the Imperial Army at last set forth to meet Goryeo in battle. In the ensuing battles the two forces fight to a standstill and an uneasy, undeclared, peace settles over the land. Both sides withdraw to their borders and neither cross, except for the occasional raid by young men on both sides. The Ashikaga are left to their own devices by the Imperial Court in Kaesong, and given unrestricted latitude to do as they will to pacify Japan for the Supreme King, unknowing that the ambitious Ashikaga Shikki have their eyes set on a new Bakufu in Kyoto. On the other side of the line Chokei Tenno retires after the last battle between his forces and the Goryeo forces, and the throne passes to his son. Go-Kameyama sets a precedent as he chooses to rule not in the Chinese manner but in the Japanese. Soon afterwards he looses control to the court officials and samurai clans as they wage a political war to see who will control the Tenno. His son in turn, Ogura Tenno, choose to rule in the Chinese manner following his father's abdication in 1412.

This leads into the game situation I had set up the first time. You likey?
 
I do indeed likey. So we appear to have an initial setup for Japan, Korea and Jurchen, as well as a direction for at least Korea to go in. Now we need to concentrate on how we're going to model the Ashikaga/Japan conflict, and what happens if either side wins, chiefly, that the Ashikaga will either create a new Bakufu or be annexed by Korea, or the Tenno defeats the Ashikaga and....then what? Colonisation toward the east?

As for the Jurchen, the A choice is for them to be absorbed into Korea, but what if they choose to rebel and form a new Jin dynasty? What would this be used for? I'm thinking it would simply be another player in the attempt to unify China.
 
Okay everyone I did some thinking and I have a rough proposal for some post unification events for Imperial Japan. I'll post some ideas for Goryeo when they come to me, but truth be told Korean history is not my strong-suit.

Moving on…..

As I envision it the current setup we have now, the war between Goryeo (through the Ashikaga) and Imperial Japan, should finish by 1560 or there about. Could be earlier could be later, but 1560 sounds about right. In 1565 the reigning Tenno, Go-Koan, passes away. Now Go-Koan doesn't have any male heirs, only daughters. Japan has had Female Emperors before, called Josei Tenno formally, but after the rather embarrassing rule of Shotoku Tenno women were banned from taking the throne by Kammu. But later Emperors did in fact ignore that rule, and in the Edo Period there was two Josei Tenno reigning a century apart. So with that in mind the player should get an event shortly after Go-Koan dies giving the player two choices over who should rule. Choice A is Princess Ame-no-miya, Go-Koan's eldest daughter. Choice B is Prince Michihito, a member of Jimyoin-to line. Going with Ame-no-miya sends Japan down a path of rapid expansion and colonization. Going with Michihito means consolidating power first, and then a policy of careful exploration in his later years.

Ame-no-miya's path is the path I primarily want to focus on here. Alright choosing the Princess gives Imperial Japan a dynamic new leader with the throne name Go-Saimei Tenno, named for the 7th Century Saimei Tenno. Go-Saimei immediately should get some events talking about all of the whining by the nobility and samurai over her ascension. Next should come a big event I'm calling "Go-Saimei and the Sea". In this event Go-Saimei basically arrives in Kyushu and transforms the island into one giant naval factory. Imperial Japan should get a bunch of fleets and explorers, to simulate effects of Go-Saimei's decree for Japan to expand outwards and explore to the further reaches of the world. Later on after a certain number of un-colonized land has been discovered there should be an event which gives Japan a number of settlers, to simulate a call to territorial expansion by the throne. At one point there should be an event about the arrival of guns in Japan, and Go-Saimei's enthusiasm for the new weapons. Basically what I have in mind for Go-Saimei is a very open, progressive monarch who intends to change her world

I understand that some people will not support this but I do believe that with in a couple of years of the introduction of guns Oda Nobunaga should appear in game. Nobunaga should play a major role in the game. I personally envision there being a series of events in which Nobunaga asks for command of the Imperial Army. This causes a political battle as Go-Saimei wants to appoint him, but neither the nobility or the samurai want to see such a strange man ascend to the highest de-facto military post in Japan. If Nobunaga does become C-in-C of the Imperial Army he basically should go on to turn the whole empire upside down, remolding it in his image. The actual army leader in game should get incredible stats to represent that Nobunaga, in RL, was hands down the best commander in Japan. Go-Saimei should pass away (actually I'm not sure if she should die or go into convent) in 1590, with the throne passing to her son, who becomes Tensho Tenno. A name suggested by Nobunaga, who continues his dominance.

Tensho and Nobunaga shouldn't get along. Even though Nobunaga basically owes his life to the Imperial Throne, as they protect him form the nobility and other samurai, the two shouldn't stand each other. I have to admit I don't what to do as this point. What I do have right now is a faint idea for Tensho Tenno to get some way to be rid of Nobunaga, either by sending him East into the lands Go-Saimei's exploratory fleets uncovered, or West into Korea or China. But nothing is certain other then Nobunaga should die before 1600.

Well those are my rough drafts for post-unification Imperial Japan. Please tell me what you think. If you guys like it I do some fleshing out on it.
 
You say the war should finish around 1560. How? at 1560 the Ashikagas automatically win, or the Imperials win, or a stalemate?

By the way guys I'm still working on this, it's just been a busy week. I will begin working on the starting situation (owned provinces, cores, DP sliders etc.) for Korea, Jurchen and hopefully Japan(with Shogun's advice :D) either Thursday, Friday, or Monday(I work weekends).
 
Rhodz,


1560 is just a date I wanted to give out in order to give my ideas some firm anchor dates. That and so I could reasonably include Nobunaga. Nothing here is certain or down in stone to me.

I may not be able to post here for the next couple of days due to personal circumstances unfortunately. I will try to post here to help if possible, but I cannot promise anything. I am sorry.
 
On Korea, it was actually a comment on two nuclei of cultural development (Wei versus Korea) that made me consider it, but the expanding importance of the navy and Japan may well have ramifications back in Kaesong. The army is probably going to be a peninsular outlook of choice for most nobles, and the inclusion of the Jurchen (with their cavalry-centric outlook) will probably increase this, but the conquest of southern Japan will bring new reason for naval expansion to secure the trade lanes and keep swatting those pesky pirates, especially if something like intermarriage between Ashikaga and Goryeo happens...oh, that's interesting, but I'll touch on it later. Basically, as pressures in this ATL seem to be changing traditional views on the rest of the world, I'm wondering if Korea shouldn't get three choices somewhat akin to Brittany - a land-centered push into Manchuria and possibly China (centered perhaps on the family Choi, which made its fortunes fighting the Mongols and is well-established, or someone else like it), a naval-centered push into Japan and the grand leap into the New World (centered perhaps on the family Yi, which made its most recent fortunes fighting the Japanese and pirates and has been undergoing a transformation, itself), and a moderate faction that balances the two with great difficulty and perserverence (because I'm that way and want to see my own family thrown into the loop, give it to a Yu clan :p). Basically, the Choi route would make easier the sequence that leads through Manchuria and China to conflict with Ming, but at the cost of losing the New World and making Japan more difficult. The Yi route would make easier the Japanese sequence and exploration of the New World, but at the cost of losing of China and in making Manchuria far more difficult. The Yu route would make both Japan and Manchuria more difficult, but if you manage to hold on to one or the other, it would give you the chance to proceed to both the New World and into Ming China - basically, an SP powerroute if you're good enough, and an MP powerroute if the other players are fat, dumb, and happy enough to let you do it. It'll probably be easier not to specify *which* clan of each family is involved since a Korean player could fill in the blanks and a non-Korean player wouldn't recognize the gap, but...

A second thing that occurred to me with the above is interrmarriage of the Goryeo. It would probably play into the above three clans split, but what might help give Japan peace is if the Goryeo were to marry into the Ashikawa, assuming of course that the Ashikawa do not break free themselves. Basically, by uniting the two families, you sort of create a Japanese-Korean dynasty, and play into the exact same stunt that Japan pulled in OTL far down the line with Yi Eun.

A third thing that occurred to me once I threw out the family name Ryu was the yangban. Especially with the discussion of Wei reforms of the civil service examinations in that thread, the Goryeo may want to institute their own reforms to reduce the power of the nobility and instill Confucian ideals into a bureaucracy. OTL it was based on the Ming Chinese and formed during the Joseon dynasty, but there's no reason why the Goryeo wouldn't leap on a good idea and do it with a Wei twist. It was also pretty corruption-free until the Seven Years War with Japan threw everything for a loop. Finally, it's also how the Pungsan Yu got their start. ;)

Finally, I like a 1560's date. It will give us a dividing line to bring a young Yi Sun-shin (passed military exam 1576, but we can bump it a couple years earlier since he was delayed by a broken leg), Yu Seong-Ryong (started in politics 1564), and Kwon Yul (late bloomer - 1583 at the age of 46) into the mix. All of them played significant roles in the Japanese invasions of Korea in the 1590's, and the first at least is famous for his naval brilliance and was so popular with the peasantry that factions in the government backed by the Joseon king tried to have him tortured, humiliated, and killed, even in the worst times of the war. He's probably one of the more important Korean figures of the era, so it'd be interesting to see him included.
 
I'd be interested to see those ideas come into play. Right now I've been busy with stuff. I'm still interested in doing this, though, I haven't abandoned it. Shall we have suggestions on what the DP sliders should look like for Korea, Jurchen and Japan?
 
My $0.02, at least.

Jurchen:

Aristocracy: 7
Centralization: 2
Innovativeness: 2
Mercantilism: 8
Offensive: 8
Land: 8
Quality: 3
Serfdom: 5

The Jurchen historically were militarily successful for the same reasons as the Mongols, and suffered their same weaknesses. They had a strong cavalry-based military led by somewhat hereditary generals, and were relatively poor at siegecraft or fortification. Also, they didn't adapt, and were ineffective rulers of the more settled Chinese (hence their inability to defend themselves either against Song & Yue Fei or against the Mongols), and were poor at encouraging trade.

The only one that I think might be iffy is Serfdom-- the Mongols and the Jurchen were, as steppe peoples, a bit more egalitarian than, say European nations (or the Chinese prior to the Ming) but this could be affected by its close relations with Korea.

Korea:

Aristocracy: 8 (high, at least)
Centralization: 6 (higher than the standard of age?)
Innovativeness: 5
Mercantilism: 6
Offensive: 7
Land: 4
Quality: 6
Serfdom: 7

I don't know a whole lot about the history of Korea, so these are just suggestions. If it's a Confucian state, it should resemble China (particularly Ming and Song) originally.

Japan:

Aristocracy: 7
Centralization: 5
Innovativeness: 4
Mercantilism: 8
Offensive: 5
Land: 6
Quality: 8
Serfdom: 8

From what I gather from the discussion above, the Japanese government will have become more centralized under Go-Daigo, but then less again under his successor. I'm not sure about the innovativeness part, but my understanding of feudal Japan is that there were a number of barriers to technological progress including instability, focus on martial power, and suppression of overseas trade and cultural exchange, and some weird Imperial Edicts (like one banning wheeled transport), so I put it at 4.

High quality b/c they did have access to a pool of well-trained professional warriors, but this could be offset by the lack of effective mass tactics (i.e. focussed more on individual prowess than collective strategy).
 
looks alright though it might be a good idea to give korea (and all confucian states) an extra point of centralisation, and maybe depending on what we're doing with them bump down their innovativeness
 
I LIVE!!!!!

EEEkkk! What I thought was only going to be a short stay away turned into me having to leave this mod for nearly a month! Aiya... I still won't be able to be quite as active as I was for while, hopefully, but I believe by now I can at least get some posting in. That is unless you guys gave up on me and got someone else to do Japan for you.

Anywho....

I spent some time earlier today catching up on all that I missed, some pretty amazing stuff everybody. The new ideas on Wei really gave me some new ideas. I also read the post by Culise about Goryeo and loved it, very cool ideas Culise, glad you liked my 1560 date. :)

Now on the hard stuff.......

I did some more thinking on Imperial Japan and the Go-Saimei path I laid out. I'd like to return to that for a bit and then get on to the newer ideas.

On further thought Go-Saimei should be something of a Japanese Elizabeth I. What I mean is that Go-Saimei should basically trigger a total revolution in the Imperial Japanese Navy. Because the war of with Goryeo most of the focus will be on the Imperial Army, or, the armies of the Bakufu. But Go-Saimei will change all that. Instead of one big event, as I orignally laid out, the naval revolution will take place in steps. I propose that this event chain by called "The Naval Revolution of the Keika Era". Keika is Japanese for 'Jubilant Reform'. The first reform should be modernization. What I have in mind here is that Go-Saimei calls on foreign naval experts from all over to come to Japan and modernize the Imperial Navy. I'm leaving which countries these experts come from up to you all, though I do think that a majority should came from Wei. I'm afaird to give a number for when the modernization efforts should stop, but it shouldn't run too long. When the modernization is complete the second Keika event should fire. This reform should be about naval expansion. Basically Japan should get a new, large, navy and some new leaders to command it. Once the new navy is complete then the fleet is sent out to explore. Go-Saimei basically gives the IJN a Starfleet-style mandate to explore the unknown. That should basically wrap up the naval reforms. At one point, maybe a year after the explorations start, Japan should get some colonists to send to her new discoveries. A vast new colonial empire should emerge.

Of course the Keika Reforms aren't solely naval. I must admit my ideas regarding Go-Saimei and reforms are somewhat ambitious, and to be fair I should let her successors get some reforms. But one thing I do want to include in the Keika Reforms is the introduction of gunpowder weapons. The background would be on a Imperial Tour some merchants display the power of gunpowder before the Imperial party. Go-Saimei declares that the Imperial Army must have guns, and lots of them. That sparks off the 'Gun Revolution of the Keika Era'. Now the actual reformation of the Army is going to be in Tensho's (Go-Saimei's son) reign. But what I have in mind is that the 'Gun Revolution' will boost Japan up to the level of using gunpowder arms on mass. The key word being 'on mass', as in lots of people firing guns with no sense of what the sheesh they're doing. Later on that mob will become a truly formidible elite force, or at least that's the outline

Now some totally new ideas were actually sparked by reading the new info on Wei. From what I understand Wei is going to be this ultra-Confucianist, yet very progressive, dynasty. This could have some very interesting effects on Japan. The Japanese fascination with China, and everything Chinese, didn't end when relations broke off with the Tang. However the exchange of ideas and general relationship on a whole really didn't get to that level again until the foundations of the Ming. Ashikaga Yoshimitsu, for example, was a major sinophile, referring to himself with a Chinese title (which I could remember what it was) and even building himself up to usrup the throne in the Chinese style (such as seating himself and his son on the same platform as the Tenno). But anyway given the background it seems to me that the revival in relations has occured between Wei and Japan. Now given Wei's background this could have definate possibilites.

Two paths I want to cover in short are on the introduction of new technology and Confucianism to Japan. First off before things could reach that point Wei and Japan need to get on good relations with each other. I believe that has been covered. Now that relations are established, trade and the exchange of culture begins. What I have in mind is that as Wei advances technologically some of that technology spreads to Japan, maybe triggering some sort of techno-boom, I'm not sure at this point. The second thing I would like to lay out is Confucianism and Japan. Confucianism actually came to Japan with Buddhism during the Tang, but it didn't catch on and it remained the sole province of Buddhist monks, since the Confucian Classics were part of thier school material. The Tokugawa, when they came to power, made Confucianism a big part of thier governing system. What I purpose is that through contact with Wei the Confucian Classics become popular amongst some of the noblity. As a 'Kotei-Style' Tenno would profit from the rise of Confucianism, it would gain Imperial approval. I don't have this totally planned out but ultimatly Japan should gain some Confucian ministers from time to time, and some events about a struggle between the more traditional nobles and the nascent Confucian gentry. But Confucianism shouldn't take over, but provide some really nice events and fluff.

Thank you and good night!
 
All of this sounds really interesting, but you are forgetting one thing. Nobunaga's personality would've lead him to killing ANY Ashikaga royal family members, and seizing the title of Shogun for himself. There should obviously be events for Nobunaga to spark a major civil war.

This would allow for two really cool things to happen: Mainly, what you are forgetting is that even with unification, there are several clans in history, that would've never have accepted the rule of a female. Obviously the Uesegi Clan, Date Clan, Tokugawa Clan, and Oda Clan.

The real clash would be that I believe the person playing Japan, should have to decide upon who they should favor to become Shogun, or to stand by the imperial family. There could still be events for loyalist factions, like the Sanada Clan, Takeda Clan, fighting in the name of the Empress in order to subdue the powerful rival clans.

So you could get awesome generals like Shingen Takeda etc. I've read a lot about Japanese history during the warring states era, and quite frankly this doesn't do the fact that the Emperor held no power any justice. EMPERORS DO NOT HAVE ANY POWER! THEY HAVENT FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS. THE SHOGUN IS POWERFUL. So you have to opt for a clan to become Shogun, or try and empower the royal family *near impossible to do during this time period, it should be at least* the most centralized government being Imperial, but you might not get as many events, and the like.

Picking Oda Clan, to become Shogunate for instance could result in attempted conquests against Korea, so cores on Korea. *This is similar to history, but it actually failed, and Nobunaga Oda himself did not lead this, it was the Takeo otherwise known as "Monkey" *To Oda at least*. There's a huge number of varying generals depending on which Clan becomes shogun, and possible objectives.
 
You are probably alone here, Panther.

The last posting in this thread was about a year ago, sadly.

(Please don't be one of those contributors who drops in for a while, says they'll do stuff, and never produces anything.)

With the exception that the region begins with Korea as a powerful state and inchanrge of Western Japan and the rest divided, you can pretty much have your way with the place.
 
<.< Sounds good to me then, I'm fine with a stronger Korea. I just want to point out that Imperial Japan has never had a strong emperor until the 19th/20th century XD! -Why do you think Japan has barely expanded in history? <_< *DUH!*

So, I'd really more so like to hear what anyone thinks about the option of four clans, or trying to empower the imperial dynasty? As the path you have to take early on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back