Keeping the Valyrian faith

[Kapitalisti]

So I finally decided to give the Volantene scoundrels a try and the Triarch politics are pretty fun to play around with. But I can't help wondering what benefits there are with staying true to the old faith of Valyria instead of following R'hllor. Aside from the RP aspect of course. You can't build up Valyrian temples, their MA is pretty permanently tanked, they don't have a religious head and to my knowledge no events or mechanics.

So, are there any objective benefits to staying Valyrian or should I follow the times and convert?

 

[Specialist290]

The only real advantage is that Valyrians have much greater chances of successfully hatching dragon eggs and taming dragons than followers of other faiths, though R'hllor does come a little closer than most (and IIRC, I think becoming R'hllor's Chosen gives roughly even odds).

 

[AzagalTheGreat]

I personally think that religion needs a little attention ..

 

[blackninja9939]

I personally think that religion needs a little attention ..

Glad you think so, care to give a useful suggestion?

 

[Kapitalisti]

Glad you think so, care to give a useful suggestion?

Well as a first aid it would be nice if Valyrians could build buildings in their temples and maybe they could get a religion modifier which would give them a slight boost to levies (like for instance the Norse in Vanilla).

But regarding a larger overhaul of the religion the problem is that at least I haven't seen much info on it in canon sources. It was the religion of Old Valyria, dragons and stuff but that's about it. Should it be an Imperial Cult type state religion (wherein the state/ruler is partly deified), Greek style polytheism with a focus on aesthetics and philosophy or a casual dragon cult? For instance, should it have a religious head? Now the Colonize Valyria mod had one but that wouldn't really make sense without reclaiming Old Valyria which is kinda broken at the moment... Would be cool if we could have autocephalous "Caliphs" where a ruler would be his/her realms head of religion, which is probably mechanically impossible. Not that religious heads actually do that much in the game anyways though.

In short: I know I want something, I just don't know what it is

 

[blackninja9939]

That is the exact problem with the Valyrian faith, we just don't know anything about it. We know they had magic but don't really know what past they tamed dragons more easily which is already in the mod. We have no info on how their faith was organised, was there a head of religion? Was there and order of priesthood? Did they have any heresies?
We just don't know enough to really make anything

 

[sirdar]

Well as a first aid it would be nice if Valyrians could build buildings in their temples and maybe they could get a religion modifier which would give them a slight boost to levies (like for instance the Norse in Vanilla).

But regarding a larger overhaul of the religion the problem is that at least I haven't seen much info on it in canon sources. It was the religion of Old Valyria, dragons and stuff but that's about it. Should it be an Imperial Cult type state religion (wherein the state/ruler is partly deified), Greek style polytheism with a focus on aesthetics and philosophy or a casual dragon cult? For instance, should it have a religious head? Now the Colonize Valyria mod had one but that wouldn't really make sense without reclaiming Old Valyria which is kinda broken at the moment... Would be cool if we could have autocephalous "Caliphs" where a ruler would be his/her realms head of religion, which is probably mechanically impossible. Not that religious heads actually do that much in the game anyways though.

In short: I know I want something, I just don't know what it is

Maybe orthodox mechanics are better for the valyrian religion: you can have indipendent heads of religion if you are a kingdom, but at the same time you can have a decision of restoring the main head of religion if you own all of the holy places, you know like the "restoring the patriarchate" decision in the main game.

Lore wise, you can put something about glass candles and the ability of foresee the future by looking into their flame.

 

[Kapitalisti]

Maybe orthodox mechanics are better for the valyrian religion: you can have indipendent heads of religion if you are a kingdom, but at the same time you can have a decision of restoring the main head of religion if you own all of the holy places, you know like the "restoring the patriarchate" decision in the main game.

Lore wise, you can put something about glass candles and the ability of foresee the future by looking into their flame.

Some Valyrian magic would be cool, shouldn't let R'hllor have all the fun.

 

[Dimension3500]

So here are my suggestions, some are based in speculation but they still serve to give Valyrians some love:

"The people of Valyria were very strong in magic, and they would use their powerful wizards and their dragons in conjunction with their armies to conquer most of the eastern continent. Dragons were controlled by whips, magic horns and sorcery." - taken from AWoIaF wiki.

"Maester Pol's treatise on Qohorik metalworking, written during several years of residence in the Free City, reveals just how jealously the secrets are guarded: He was thrice publicly whipped and cast out from the city for making too many inquiries. The final time, his hand was also removed following the allegation that he stole a Valyrian steel blade. According to Pol, the true reason for his final exile was his discovery of blood sacrifices - including the killing of slaves as young as infants - which the Qohorik smiths used in their efforts to produce a steel to equal that of the Freehold" - On Qohor, A Wold of Ice and Fire.

- Glass candles: As long as there are living dragons roaming around the world, a practitioner of the Valyrian religion with high learning can look into the glass candles as a way of keeping him/herself safe from plots. Maybe there could be a building related to the candles themselves that the player has to build in order to have access to them, like the Observatory from the Scholar WoL, but with an actual use for it, like the Alchemist's Guild.
-Critical Success: Your grasp on the unknown is unparalleled and you see glimpses of your own future greatness. Chance to get Ambitious trait, some prestige and maybe a very small chance of getting a Valyrian Steel sword/Dragon Egg/Artifact, as in the candles directed you to where they were hidden.
-Success: Now you can predict all your enemies' moves, and this keeps you safe from plots OR battle in the same way Rhllor currently does. A chance to get the Zealous trait. (Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen).
-Failure: You see nothing, no matter how hard you try. This could give you either the Cynical trait ("Magic is truly gone from the world") or Stressed (as in the character spent a LONG amount of time trying to make it work, like the Maesters at the Citadel.)
-Critical Failure: You see vague, disturbing images of suffering and pain, you don't know if you can trust anyone anymore. Chance to get Lunatic and/or Paranoid.

-Blood magic and binding dragons; how about granting a very small chance that someone exploring the ruins of Valyria gets an artifact similar to Euron's? Seeing the system of storing "magic credits" was already implemented with Rhllor, it could also be used to see if the ritual would work:
You need to store prisoners, and once you think you are ready you can try performing the ritual to bind the horn to you. The need to store a certain amount of prisoners as sacrifices to even attempt the ritual would serve as a nice side-objective for players, and add to the expectation leading up to it. Or, to make it even more hideous and GRRMy, limit the sacrifices to children only.
-Success: The horn is... well, now bound to you. If you meet a dragon in battle and get the option to face him, a new alternative should appear letting a bodyguard/courtier/dynasty member blow it for you. This would basically be a very difficult to pull off "dragon steal mechanic".
-Failure: The ritual itself goes wrong, and you pay the ultimate price. (As magic in Planetos always resolves around a very high price, the penalty for failure could range from lunacy, disfigurement or even death).
And maybe this could be bound to a similar mechanic to hatching dragon eggs: if the player wants a higher chance of making it work there would be the need to travel the world in search of lore.

And if there is a way to let the game know who the horn is bound to, the player could even try to pull a Crow's Eye-Victarion with a vassal commander that happens to be battling a dragonlord.

The Mystic trait could be the requirement to even attempting those things, in the same way both Rhllor traits currently work.

And that's all I could think of for now.

 

[Pokonic]

Valyrian's valued freedom of faith, and going by the worldbook it seems like many downright didn't care what others prayed to, as they favored some gods individually or none at all. They also didn't seem to be into proselytizing, with most of the people's they ruled keeping their own gods. Giving them a Jain-like opinion bonus to vassals to offset religious opinion maluses could be a good way to represent this; assuming that this practice has been kept to the time of the books, it could explain how Volantis, well, works.

 

[Dimension3500]

Valyrian's valued freedom of faith, and going by the worldbook it seems like many downright didn't care what others prayed to, as they favored some gods individually or none at all. They also didn't seem to be into proselytizing, with most of the people's they ruled keeping their own gods. Giving them a Jain-like opinion bonus to vassals to offset religious opinion maluses could be a good way to represent this; assuming that this practice has been kept to the time of the books, it could explain how Volantis, well, works.

Amazing idea. Seeing, ironically, Bravos and her slaver nemesis share the same approach towards different faiths, maybe this could be given to the Moonsingers as well? I mean, they have a whole district dedicated to hosting temples from most existing religions.

"All gods are honored in Braavos. Most of the temples are located on the isle in the center of the city, known as the 'Isle of the Gods'." - from the wiki.

 

[alexxo97]

Maybe give characters with the zealous, ambitious and dragon-rider traits of the Valyrian faith and who has the valyrian culture group the possibility of trying to recolonize the Valyrian peninsula if they control the kingdom of Northern Valyria. This could be made to work by a series of events mixed in with the actual colonization mechanics. If its a complete success, ie the entire peninsula is reclaimed. Then they get an option to move their capital to Valyria, change their culture to high Valyrian and an event fires (similar to Aegon's conquest) which allows them to attack the lands of the Valyrian Freehold. If they only manage to reclaim a part of the peninsula then that character is banned from retrying for life (because of the horrors they experienced) but they ge tot keep what they conquered and that characters heir can try again.

 

[Pokonic]

Maybe give characters with the zealous, ambitious and dragon-rider traits of the Valyrian faith and who has the valyrian culture group the possibility of trying to recolonize the Valyrian peninsula if they control the kingdom of Northern Valyria. This could be made to work by a series of events mixed in with the actual colonization mechanics. If its a complete success, ie the entire peninsula is reclaimed. Then they get an option to move their capital to Valyria, change their culture to high Valyrian and an event fires (similar to Aegon's conquest) which allows them to attack the lands of the Valyrian Freehold. If they only manage to reclaim a part of the peninsula then that character is banned from retrying for life (because of the horrors they experienced) but they ge tot keep what they conquered and that characters heir can try again.

I would think that Valyria is completely inhospitable, if the remaining Valyrian cities-states on the northern part of the continent are any indication. Active volcanic activity and a generally toxic atmosphere and, uh, demons might/should be enough of a deterrence. An Ambitious Valyrian faithful would probably be more interested obtaining artifacts from Valyria, such as eggs or swords or glass candles, while zealous practitioners could preform rituals which could allow them to preform 'magic', which would likely involve slave sacrifices to assure health or wealth. A dragon rider is a dragon rider and they don't need another CB of ultimate doom, however. A individual in the Valyrian culture group, however, could have the ambition to form New Valyria; this ambition could also be available to any Essos character with a dragon or with the needed prestige.

 

[Almaron]

Valyrian's valued freedom of faith, and going by the worldbook it seems like many downright didn't care what others prayed to, as they favored some gods individually or none at all. They also didn't seem to be into proselytizing, with most of the people's they ruled keeping their own gods. Giving them a Jain-like opinion bonus to vassals to offset religious opinion maluses could be a good way to represent this; assuming that this practice has been kept to the time of the books, it could explain how Volantis, well, works.

Seconded; this would help prevent Volantis from fracturing all the time via religious revolts.

 

[Almaron]

I would think that Valyria is completely inhospitable, if the remaining Valyrian cities-states on the northern part of the continent are any indication. Active volcanic activity and a generally toxic atmosphere and, uh, demons might/should be enough of a deterrence. An Ambitious Valyrian faithful would probably be more interested obtaining artifacts from Valyria, such as eggs or swords or glass candles, while zealous practitioners could preform rituals which could allow them to preform 'magic', which would likely involve slave sacrifices to assure health or wealth. A dragon rider is a dragon rider and they don't need another CB of ultimate doom, however. A individual in the Valyrian culture group, however, could have the ambition to form New Valyria; this ambition could also be available to any Essos character with a dragon or with the needed prestige.

Perhaps there could be a special decision for Valyrian characters to charter an expedition to Valyria? It could have something like a 60/75% chance of disaster, but a 40/25% chance that you'll return with some treasures that boost your prestige...and perhaps a 1% chance that you can recolonise Valyria (IIRC, isn't there a line in the World of Ice and Fire book that notes there's supposed to be a small group of people living there?)!

 

[Dayni]

It'd be nice to see some expansion of the faith for the main mod, instead of it being aGoT's Hellenic as well.

For now, mods are the only way I can think of, and I went over to the Citadel forums for a mod or two. Nice enough, though I haven't seen much impact yet. Thing is I don't think any were being worked on when I checked (though I checked months ago), so likely dead.

Maybe focusing on tolerance towards other faiths is a good start for it.

 

[Almaron]

Perhaps there could be a special decision for Valyrian characters to charter an expedition to Valyria? It could have something like a 60/75% chance of disaster, but a 40/25% chance that you'll return with some treasures that boost your prestige...and perhaps a 1% chance that you can recolonise Valyria (IIRC, isn't there a line in the World of Ice and Fire book that notes there's supposed to be a small group of people living there?)!

Ooh, hang on, how about this? What if any character can have it, and it's added to the WOL business event, so that at the start you've got an option to send an expedition to Valyria, or to just go with the normal trade with pagan ruler option?