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Kings, Emperors, and Statesmen: A Saga 1066-1920

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look ppl I spent maybe 50-100 hours into this game it will be dearly depressing to give it up because we may be chronically short on ppl occasionally.

As for my little war, here's what happened I had in the prev session as requested per rules peaced Seljuks I demanded all the lands I thought I claimed.

Turns out one of them was a prov in Meso, I pretty much ignored it since theres no way to give it back AFAIK and i never did anything with it.

But it being a count stillo attacked turks for me and grabed a prov.

and my intentions when I saw this is to let it happen FOR WARSCORE vs the Turks who were sending the largest army I have ever seen towards our Ventian friends and allies who I could not let be pounded.

You cannot honestly excect me to cease my wars with the turks because:

A) every other Byzantine player in the history of CK goes against the turks it is expected.

B) Of we role play this I am still a Christian Nation crusading against the heathens there is no RP way of explaioning why aa random polish king would want to attack the greeks.

C) Makin things exciting is a stupid excuse because doign what you owuld do when I have little to no reserves left (fighting an enemy with 2-3 times your MP does that) is cheap and will only result in breaking the back of Byzantium and estorying its playability as a nation hence furthing the destabalizing of game Balance and further alienating your fellow gamers.

And this also drives away other players because why should a player join if every action can concievably be dictated by the will of Krakow?

Remember this is a CONVERSION game so lets look at EU2.

We will concieaby have:

Poland
Germany
France
England
Spain
Byzantium
China
Scandinavia
Italy

Out of all of these 6-7 are regularily controlled by players.

Which means we only need THREE more players for a competitive game of EU2.

We have enough to way the foundations.
 
Our current KES Kingdom campaign was/is funny, but honestly it does not differ so much from single player. In conjunction with the need to keep the date every sunday for some kind of single player game with all those nasty ctd-breaks in between etc. I must admit that I start losing interest.

I would really like a more interactive/intrigue setting like a game where all players are within the same kingdom with specific rules like expansion beyond the kingdom borders, some rules concerning the king etc. Of course, there is sometimes not much do to ingame due to lack of money or prestige, but the more is to do politically with or against other players. I think this could be very funny game experience.

My yearly summer vacations will start soon (31st July to 21st August), so I will most likely be not available for the next sessions. Whether I can return to find interest in playing our KES kingdom game we will see in some weeks...
 
It would seem that regardless of wether we choose to continue KES or not, a lot of the original spirit has been lost. Due to having few players, we are drawing closer to a situation where the player nations divide the continent between them, so that once we hit EU2 there will only be 6 or 7 blobs. Not a scenario to look forward too IMHO, even if we have managed to spare most of the non-european infidels. Add to that that a few of us dedicated players are either leaving or thinking of leaving. In SP, I always quit the games that become boring since I play for fun and not to "play it through".

Still, I like this game. I like the rest of you, and even though the game didn't turn out as I had hoped, I have enjoyed every sunday. If there's a will to continue KES, I'll be here. However:

Jens Z said:
I would really like a more interactive/intrigue setting like a game where all players are within the same kingdom with specific rules like expansion beyond the kingdom borders, some rules concerning the king etc. Of course, there is sometimes not much do to ingame due to lack of money or prestige, but the more is to do politically with or against other players. I think this could be very funny game experience.
Click to expand...

This is a very good suggestion. Not only does this offer opportunities for a fresh and more dynamic game, but a game as Dukes within a kingdom with some restrictions could mean that in the end, we could have a much more interesting game to convert to EU2.

An idea for such a game: a one-kingdom rule, meaning that all players start as dukes within a designated realm and are not allowed to acquire any other kingdom title than that of the realm(though they may break free).
 
Rus or Germany?
 
I'd think, if we got enough players, we could take it beyond one kingdom. There could be two: France and England, Germany and France, Castille and Leon (I'd really like the last one, in fact we could do 3-4 kingdoms in Iberia). Perhaps for a time one would be unable to take titles outside of the kingdom, but, if we were to convert, we would need to, at some point, decide to spread out. Also, this might make for some really odd conversions, but it's interesting to say the least.
 
I'd think France and England would work well, if we could get about 8 players that means 2 kings, 3 dukes as vassals of each (6 dukes total). Just as an example of realms, it could be King of England, Duke of Norfolk, Duke of Gloucester, Duke of Lancaster, King of France, Duke of Bourgogne, Duke of Flanders, Duke of Poitou.

However, we could all start on an even playing field and play as German dukes (Brandenburg, Osterreich, Bavaria, Lower Lorraine, Upper Lorraine, etc.).

Any votes for either?
 
I think I would prefer a scenario where we all start as german dukes, and are not allowed to gain any other king title than the kingdom of Germany. We could allow free expansion except against pagans. Furthermore, it could enhance the fun if the ruling law would be elective for the king title :cool:
 
Varyar said:
I think I would prefer a scenario where we all start as german dukes, and are not allowed to gain any other king title than the kingdom of Germany. We could allow free expansion except against pagans. Furthermore, it could enhance the fun if the ruling law would be elective for the king title :cool:
Click to expand...

I like this scenario. Elective law would be a nice idea. We might even think about a real heir election among all ducal players via roleplay... :)

Another important rule:
The liege is not allowed to force players into mustering their troops via game mechanics. The vassal player should always have the option if he follows the request of his liege or not.


England or France might also be a nice setting - as long as there will be an all-players-in-one-kingdom scenario. England AND France might turn into a country vs country scenario too easy I fear.
 
Jens Z said:
I like this scenario. Elective law would be a nice idea. We might even think about a real heir election among all ducal players via roleplay... :)

Another important rule:
The liege is not allowed to force players into mustering their troops via game mechanics. The vassal player should always have the option if he follows the request of his liege or not.
Click to expand...

Good ideas.

England or France might also be a nice setting - as long as there will be an all-players-in-one-kingdom scenario. England AND France might turn into a country vs country scenario too easy I fear.
Click to expand...

Not to mention that if we don't have enough players, each player will be very powerful in the long term.
 
I have to say that I find the abandonement of KES very depressing and with work, lack of sleep and my MMO addictions I must say that CK has lost the last bit of appeal it once had, CQS lasted until work directly interfeared with it before that it was simply for the social atmosphere, in CK I always find that unless your encredibly lucky it takes way to long to expand and far to short to collapse there is far to much micromanagement on far to large a scale, Civilization I-IV were baalnced enough to make it fun and not a chore to constantly check every vassal, Hoi2 the first PDox game I fell in love with the the perfect WWII strategic simulator and the finding of Victoria which is similar to Imperialism I and II and EU2 which recreated an era of history that I was alwas fascinated with starting witht he book "The Old Regime and Revolution". CK was something I got so that I could gain KoM's respect after a long drawn out flamewar on Hatrack involving copyright issues and played with him to try out a new game, it was okay ut the constant instability of CK in MP the bugs the absurdity of the AI and the hugeness of the save files after 50 years made the game hard to justify commiting dozens of hours into.

The Great Game justified it under the assumption it would convert in EU2, and then Vikky and then Hoi, why is this justifiable? Because the one thing, I hated time limits, I hated how in Imperialism I I only had from 1830 to 1916 U wanted to play MORE! and conquer more!

So GG justified it by stating to me essentialy heya, this will last me hours and horus of game tiem lasting me 1000 years of history... sweet.

But alas, due to issues within and without the game it seems like the game is dying and I am far too demoalized from this to continue any non conversion CK games atm.

Also, last but not least is that it ha sbeen fun playing with you guys for all that it was worth and I do hope all of you remember me as the guy who imploded every nation he played.
 
As much as it pains me to say this, I'm going to have to drop from this game. I was going to withdraw in a few weeks actually, but in all honesty it seems as if interest in KES is really waning, and I know it's not just on my part. Getting up that early on a Sunday (game start is 10 AM in Chicago) was getting to me in the past weeks, and the ridiculous number of rehosts due to CK's instability really grated my nerves often times. Then there's the ever-dwindling number of players. I was optimistic at first when there were plenty of willing players, but as the weeks wore on that pool eventually got smaller and smaller.

So without dragging this on even further, thank you to all who have made KES a real blast and see ya around.
 
Hmm, too bad that you guys want to quit. I understand most of your concerns, just don't forget that with such a small group, we can be flexible. If 15:00 GMT is too early for ya Kujy, we could postpone the game an hour. And Sid, I certainly wouldn't rule out a conversion to EU2, even if a possible new game would be quite different from the typical one-kingdom-each game. Also, I'd like to remind you that the new game that we are about to start, if there's interest, will be quite different from the former. Each player will be weaker, and player interaction will be a requirement to expand in power, or even to survive. There will be plenty of opportunity for intrigue and deception in the struggle for the crown.

OTOH, I've grown quite tired of CK myself. The idea of trying out some EU2 MP instead is quite appealing.

I'll be here/on V-net later today as usual, when/if we discuss this game's future.

EDIT: on my way
 
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well... right now i'm speechless, hmm it's been a great game, most of the sundays i had fun and most of the weeks i would think about this game... i really enjoined, if there is a new casual game, ill join of course!
 
Well, since only germax and myself showed up, I reckon we can, at the very least, declare KES dead. However, right now we're trying to start an EU2 scenario. So if you see this and want to join, just head for V-net and the EU2 channel.
 
While even a casual game I am apprensive and reluctant to play (since I got so little time anyways for other games) I am willing to play eu2 wiht you guyd.
 
Gentlemen, since CQS has also more or less ground to a halt, and we are looking to start a new one, you may want to drop in on our thread. We are discussing new timeslots and such; if you can't play in a new KES game, perhaps you could join us instead?

Edit : Oh, and by the way, I was thinking it would be a conversion game, so kingdoms would probably be indicated. And this time we'd avoid the ridiculous editing rules for the EU2 section. :)
 
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