• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Thanks very much for the moneylending explanation. :)
Yeah, very British. Only really acceptable when describing the weather, every other usage is a little disgusting (cake for example...).
Never acceptable. :D According to my son, anyway!
I was quite stoked that the trigger for wanting independence came just before Offa popped his clogs and kicked the bucket. Mercia is woefully out of position to deal with this.
Let’s hope he kicked the bucket just before the clogs popped. It would make a far more satisfying sound and by the look of his ailment it would have been a very painful way to go without some foot protection! :p Though Derby may not have had much sympathy for Offa.
 
Thanks very much for the moneylending explanation. :)

A cool mechanic, but not one you can use in your tribal game. Money is fairly irrelevant for them, outside of a few buildings.

Never acceptable. :D According to my son, anyway!

To each their own. Although I would question what offends him so. Mildly moist is fairly common. As is, for some reason, description for anything wet and fairly disgusting. Oh...I suppose that might be it...

Let’s hope he kicked the bucket just before the clogs popped.

Whilst the bucket is a truly ancient device, wooden shoes (clogs) are a bit more modern, but possibly not by much. They were certainly around in Europe by the 11th century, because we have some in Amsterdam from that time. It is debatable whether the Roman's or their British Isle enemies had them too though, since they're pretty hard wearing, good in northern climates and the root word comes from this period.

Basically, whilst Offa certainly kicked the bucket he might also have popped his clogs. Now the argument becomes 'was he wearing trousers?' which is even harder to determine. Trousers are classically barbarian, and Saxon, but the Irish, Picts, Scots (possibly some Welsh too but that's a much broader culture group) traditionally didn't wear them. And if he did wear them, it is probable he wore two sets of differing fits at the same time. So you see, quite a difference.

Though Derby may not have had much sympathy for Offa.

Does anyone really? He had no reason to force his vassals for more men when he had his own levy and tributaries already. And he was so inept he caused a rebellion in another man's county!
 
Well, one cannot say that Wigferth lacks for passion and audacity. Whether he lacks certain other virtues (or other resources) he may need to see this through is up in the air, however. The Saxon Band might see him through, but only just -- and if the war drags on too long, there's the worrying possibility of what the mercs might do when the overdue back-pay is not forthcoming...
 
Well, one cannot say that Wigferth lacks for passion and audacity. Whether he lacks certain other virtues (or other resources) he may need to see this through is up in the air, however. The Saxon Band might see him through, but only just -- and if the war drags on too long, there's the worrying possibility of what the mercs might do when the overdue back-pay is not forthcoming...

I have about a year to end this war and win it before the mercs leave or join Offa's kid.

He has passion and ambition, things lacking in Old Chester and things that allow him to take our next steps into a wider world.
 
I look up and you are four pages into it, sir. I'd say you are pulling a me but likely moreso just excited about the effort. Good luck to Offa in his trials and I hope to get caught up soon enough. A lot to cover since I checked in last. :eek: :D
 
I look up and you are four pages into it, sir.

No one is more surprised than myself, considering past history. Apparently telling an oral story is pretty easy compared to writing one (fancy that...), but I'm sure I'll cock up at some point and start trying to write a medieval chronical or grand Romance.

Oh...I could write an epic, but that would have to be written in Latin and whilst it would be amusing to force @Bullfilter to read that in penance for his Civis game, I think you can take a thing too far...

I'd say you are pulling a me but likely moreso just excited about the effort. Good luck to Offa in his trials and I hope to get caught up soon enough. A lot to cover since I checked in last. :eek: :D

I really am enjoying this, but I'm fast outstripping my writing by my game, which is good in several ways but removes a little tension for both writer and reader (because I do not in fact end up getting murdered very early on). Anyway, yeah catch up when you can. These chapters aren't as long as they look though, about 500 words on average.
 
Perhaps a little late but I'm afriad no updates this weekend. I'm at my club in Lancaster (suitably enough) and essentially being Old Professor Monmouth for an evening at the university, for which I am somewhat aprehensive.

Feel free to talk amongst yourselves. Suggested topic: gentlemen's clubs (i.e. actual ones not those silly Amercian ones) and why they suck/rule.

Alternatively since I suspect this is a niche topic, what should my main goals be after I've solidified my independance as Lancaster? Do I conquer Wales and serve as a third way between Northumbria and Mercia? Do I try to become the big power on the island through taking on the big boys directly? Or, and I think this is my preferred for now, just try to tribute everyone I can for now and leave the saxons to each other?
 
I've just caught up on this after seeing it recommended by @loup99 earlier today, and have thoroughly enjoyed it so far.

The narrative style you've chosen is quite different and is very entertaining.

Alternatively since I suspect this is a niche topic, what should my main goals be after I've solidified my independance as Lancaster? Do I conquer Wales and serve as a third way between Northumbria and Mercia? Do I try to become the big power on the island through taking on the big boys directly? Or, and I think this is my preferred for now, just try to tribute everyone I can for now and leave the saxons to each other?

As far as future moves, I personally would see if I could move into northern Wales to try and gain more land under my own sway. Then perhaps the rest of Wales could become your tributaries?

No matter how you move forward, I'm sure it shall be interesting! (And I'm afraid I have nothing to offer regarding gentleman's clubs :rolleyes:)
 
As far as future moves, I personally would see if I could move into northern Wales to try and gain more land under my own sway. Then perhaps the rest of Wales could become your tributaries?

Thanks for your kind comments. I'm enjoying writing this way.

Yes, I think holding the northern welsh duchy and lancaster duchy gives a very pleasing shape to the kingdom, with Isle of Man as a centre piece. I think then I would try to consolidate in the North. Take Yorkshire duchy and tribute everyone else that I can for now. Of course, that means waiting and hoping someone smashes Northumbria to pieces, or waiting for them to be attacked by vikings. One of those.
 
I like the idea of you becoming a third way in the island, I feel like it would make the island power relationships more interesting but there's no reason why you couldn't achieve that with tributaries!
 
I like the idea of you becoming a third way in the island, I feel like it would make the island power relationships more interesting but there's no reason why you couldn't achieve that with tributaries!

Well as I said, the two main powers of saxon land is Mercia and Northumbria. One of them is going to fall apart due to gavelkind and viking invasions at least. Pictland, if they're wise, will go after ireland and I'll claim wales through tributes.

I suspect that mercia will become the main power on the island, and i or Scotland will be second depending on who controls ireland best. Northumbria is wedged between all of us and is closer to scandinvia, and has lands i want. Lancaster, for example!

Eventually I will take over everything but before then, getting a nice shape and establishing tributes on everyone before i conquer them. Wales and isle man first.
 
Well as I said, the two main powers of saxon land is Mercia and Northumbria. One of them is going to fall apart due to gavelkind and viking invasions at least. Pictland, if they're wise, will go after ireland and I'll claim wales through tributes.

I suspect that mercia will become the main power on the island, and i or Scotland will be second depending on who controls ireland best. Northumbria is wedged between all of us and is closer to scandinvia, and has lands i want. Lancaster, for example!

Eventually I will take over everything but before then, getting a nice shape and establishing tributes on everyone before i conquer them. Wales and isle man first.
Will follow how that works. Still being a newbie, I’ve not encountered the tribute system directly yet and haven’t actually read very much about it in the CK2 AARs I follow. Interested to see how it plays out as a mechanic and how it helps the blobbing plan you are forming.
 
Will follow how that works. Still being a newbie, I’ve not encountered the tribute system directly yet and haven’t actually read very much about it in the CK2 AARs I follow. Interested to see how it plays out as a mechanic and how it helps the blobbing plan you are forming.

I first made good use of it in...erm...Little Dux but nowhere near there yet in the AAR. It's a really good system because it much more accurately shows how rulers constructed their realms before feudalism. They dominated others but didn't rule over them really. So that's what I'm looking to do. Forge a small central realm, then surround it with tributaries.

You have to share a border with your target, but once you have that, you can declare war at no cost. You can go to war for a tributary, which gives you a portion of their income and can be forced to join any war. You can also war for a tributary state, which gives you control of their men when you want them.

On the whole, I prefer tributaries. They do their own thing and pay you money until your ruler dies. States are cheap vassals, and will break away if they get stronger than you at any point (which happens a lot in early game). But both are useful to map out areas of interest because you are their protector, you can defend them when people try to conquer them. One of the benefits of tributaries over states is that you don't have to fight for them if you don't want to. If you don't defend states, contract broken.

Bascially, tributaries are your attack dogs you can sic on everyone. States do that to you.
 
Subbed! Definitely have a soft spot for Anglo-Saxon shenanigans. Intrigued to learn more about tributaries too, never use them myself. Like the oral history style as well, haven't read anything like that before.
 
Subbed! Definitely have a soft spot for Anglo-Saxon shenanigans. Intrigued to learn more about tributaries too, never use them myself. Like the oral history style as well, haven't read anything like that before.

I really like tributaries. You can focus on a small, compact and powerful realm building full of wonders and character, whilst also have a ton of soft and hard power on all your neighbours by tributing them every few decades. It's really cool and much more interesting than struggling to conquer one county every few dozen years in the early game.
 
Alright update incoming shortly. The Independance war was, compared to my practice game, very short. So I'll try to do two updates close together to even it out.

Gameplay wise, the game world has gone abruptly and absolutely bananas. You'll see when we get there (eventually) but my goodness, outside of a shattered world this is the strangest playthrough I've had in a lomg time. It really does seem like if you play as a minor power in this game, the AI properly flexes its muscles and goes at each other properly. Annoyingly, my dynasty is also now blue on the map. Apparently no matter what I do, I will eventually spawn a Galahad figure who will breed his way into the crowns of every kingdom in the world.

The strangest thing is how balanced the world map is. There's three strong Muslim factions, three strong Christians, a really powerful Roman empire and super powered Germanic stuff going on all over the place. What this means for us is that the British Isles got a lot more multicultural and multicoloured since the days of 7 kings and Old Chester.

I am pleased to report however that it remains possible to play a minor power in this world. It's been great so far.
 
Chapter 6: Forward onto Freedom
Chapter 6: Forward onto Freedom

pn4Kv3aJj
podLqAzgj
War came to the North once again, this time by Derby’s instigation. Our forces quickly rallied to Warwick, the scene of infanticide and murder. Mercian men were not prepared nor expecting a rebellion of such strength, and thus were separated from each other, to their cost.

pmUN0XOlj
po2Ngfjvj

Warwick saw half their army slaughtered before they were properly raised, and a path through the realm was opened. Derby knew however that his army, and his coin, would only march so far and last so long. So he needed to strike hard while the iron of his enemies was soft. And he did. The Saxon men of Wessex were swift and hardy, cutting down all in their path. Mercia was open to invasion and pillaging, but Derby knew he had to force another, conclusive battle, lest the boy king reformed his men and truly fought back. The rebellion could not fight such a war and win.

pnyLVXh7j

So it was that Derby forced another battle, this time on the outskirts of Sherwood forest. There three enemy commanders, Old Offa retainers, were killed. Two hundred men of Mercia were slain and for only one score of rebel soldiers. His point made, Derby ordered a march on Leicester and sent heralds before him to every village and the city itself, proclaiming that either the Earl would find a flag of truce there, or no men at all. If any men were to be found otherwise, they would be put to the sword. Mercia did not hear his claims. Thus, the city was put to siege and for many months, the nerve of the king was tested against Derby’s, each knowing that a flinch would prove fatal. What would fail first, Old Offa’s food and walls or Old Chester’s purse?

pmYABTTgj

Eventually, perhaps humorously, both men moved in the same instant. On the very day Derby was organising an assault, the king sallied out to disperse the rebel band. Fortune favouring him, Derby quickly brought his plan into motion and pushed back, and back, until the walls were behind his own men and the city began to fall. Resistance melted away when the boy king and court fled the field, leaving Derby in Offa’s old seat and, for the first time, in command of his own destiny.

pn61iHsuj
pnmXkOrVj

Here he first met his son, now a man grown, as an equal and commander in the rebellion. The youth was clever, having been tutored at the hand of Old Chester himself, and was a child both of war and peace. Derby looked upon him and was pleased.

pnJpbK4ej
pnSz1CAdj

But the war was not yet over, though it had most certainly been won. Mercia yet remained a power in the country and repulsing the king meant only that he would face further recrimination from his council, not that Derby could walk free. No, a great battle was required to disperse the growing army of Mercia one last time, to thoroughly exhaust the king’s patience and coffers if not his reserves of men. Derby of course was becoming poorer too, though the capture of Leicester had helped immensely with keeping the Saxon Band attentive. Burton was the place of the enemy encampment whilst they gathered their forces. Derby therefore threw caution to the wind, buoyed by past fortune and victory. And in a battle of thousands, he emerged victorious. The king was destitute and unpopular, the realm burning and the people beaten. He conceded defeat, with a grace similar to that of his blessed father.

pm4gb7LAj
poaWtzIej

Derby and Chester were now free from the chains of Mercian kings and their fallen kingdom. Free to pursue higher causes and greater destinies. What, may you ask? Well…I’m glad you asked. For now, we have reached the end of the beginning. Here then, the House of Lancaster would be born from the fires of war, and unite the whole North, the whole Isles! Against whatever fate and devil may throw at us!
 
Last edited:
A swift and decisive victory. Young Wigberht should prove a wise and thrifty ruler when his time comes. And another child on the way: Derby must surely have rejoiced at this point. One hopes not with too much pride, though, as one knows what follows an excess of that sinful emotion. ;)
 
A swift and decisive victory. Young Wigberht should prove a wise and thrifty ruler when his time comes. And another child on the way: Derby must surely have rejoiced at this point. One hopes not with too much pride, though, as one knows what follows an excess of that sinful emotion. ;)

I've been blessed so far with very different rulers. A peacemakers, then an ambitious steward, then some warlords who really shook things up and on and on. When you make a stable and large realm all your characters start to blend together a little, because you have them do the exact same things because its simply the only rational and optimal way at that point. The tributary system ending at death and allowing me to punch above my weight economically and militarily but suddenly vanishing at terrible moments leads to much more varied gameplay. The realm genuinely needs to time to recover and heal, build up treasure, have a ruler sit back and fix laws and vassals rather than conquer stuff etc. I would say to anyone who's tired of ckii but doesn't want to be a full nomadic civilization should give playing as a minor and holding as many tributes as you can a try. It's insanely addictive and quite hard when, as you might expect, the not-quite vassals begin to dominate one another and you become surrounded by former tributes who are now large powers themselves.

EDIT: Ooohhh, I've just seen what's coming next in my picture file. Well, @El Pip is going to hate this but everyone else I hope finds this next bit at least somewhat enjoyable.;)

Let's just say my first scouting into maybe invading north wales lead to some very...peculiar events and meetings. And my hands down favourite spymaster to ever exist.
 
Last edited:
Chester now stands alone, its ruler's head no longer bowing to any overlord. Mercia will find it still more difficult to claw its way back to being the notional "first among equals" it was in Offa's day, though I imagine that it still packs quite a punch when given time to rouse itself.