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Mercenaries were very common in Europe during these times so I reckon that they will be important part of warfare.
But NOT an alliance...not exactly anyway. Sort of like a war treaty on a certain party.
There could be a distinction between offensive alliances ("war pact") between countries or even different alliances, and defensive alliances. If this distinction is made in CK is not known yet though...
Mercenaries were not always thought of in terms of "allies"... there were many cases where smaller nations rented out all or part of their armies to larger powers during wars, but these smaller countries themselves were considered neutral.
While it isn't during the CK period, I know that this happened extensively with the western German states during the American Revolution, in which contingents of troops (even including some generals) were rented from various German states by Britain, erroneously being collectively referred to as "Hessians" in America (actually, only about a third were actually from Hesse). However, the British negotiated alone in the peace talks at the end of the war. (It would have been a one-on-one negotiation, except America had real allies - France.)
Such mercenaries were distinct from the nation's own troops, and always returned at the end of the war for which they were hired, so the way that they are treated in EU2 would not be approrpiate.
While it isn't during the CK period, I know that this happened extensively with the western German states during the American Revolution, in which contingents of troops (even including some generals) were rented from various German states by Britain, erroneously being collectively referred to as "Hessians" in America (actually, only about a third were actually from Hesse). However, the British negotiated alone in the peace talks at the end of the war. (It would have been a one-on-one negotiation, except America had real allies - France.)
Such mercenaries were distinct from the nation's own troops, and always returned at the end of the war for which they were hired, so the way that they are treated in EU2 would not be approrpiate.
ok, I see what you mean. However, I see no reasons to implement this feature in the game. There is no reason to have an alliance if you are not going to go to war together (be it defensive or offensive) and, as long as you can hire mercenaries - they can come from smaller kingdoms - why would you care where they come from?
What about ships?
If you are a king of a county in north of Europe, and pope is calling for crusade or you want to grab a part of midle East, you will have to rent a fleet to do this. And that was a fact in that time, Venezia had make a fortune on renting ships, and even had rented a ships in excange for city Zadar (Zara) in Croatia (Dalmatia) wich was conqered by crusaders for that reason, as a payment for ships. In wich way will you resolve a transportacion of crusaders to Holy Land, will every kingdom have they fleet like in EU?
If you are a king of a county in north of Europe, and pope is calling for crusade or you want to grab a part of midle East, you will have to rent a fleet to do this. And that was a fact in that time, Venezia had make a fortune on renting ships, and even had rented a ships in excange for city Zadar (Zara) in Croatia (Dalmatia) wich was conqered by crusaders for that reason, as a payment for ships. In wich way will you resolve a transportacion of crusaders to Holy Land, will every kingdom have they fleet like in EU?
The way Snall describes it, this sounds more like a proxy war. I don't think this was very common back in those days.
Re: What about ships?
Not in all of Northern Europe. English fleets went on Crusade several times, as did Dutch/Lotharingian fleets and even Scandinavians. The Germans always took the land route until the Staufen got a tight grip on Italy; then it was Genoese/Pisan/Sicilian ships that carried the imperial forces to the Holy Land.
The Venetian fleet was necessary for the 4th Crusade because only minor/middle-class nobles went. None of them possessed their own ships or had the time/resources required to build a fleet of sufficient size.
So if youre a king in CK, assuming youre not landlocked, you should be able to raise a fleet, at least generally speaking.
Not in all of Northern Europe. English fleets went on Crusade several times, as did Dutch/Lotharingian fleets and even Scandinavians. The Germans always took the land route until the Staufen got a tight grip on Italy; then it was Genoese/Pisan/Sicilian ships that carried the imperial forces to the Holy Land.
The Venetian fleet was necessary for the 4th Crusade because only minor/middle-class nobles went. None of them possessed their own ships or had the time/resources required to build a fleet of sufficient size.
So if youre a king in CK, assuming youre not landlocked, you should be able to raise a fleet, at least generally speaking.
This is what I understood Snall to mean too. It's possible, and would be a cool feature to add in diplomacy, but what examples of this occured in the CK era?
er...I don't know..but it sounds like it would have happened..a nation promises another nation gold or a province for soldiers..anyway..maybe I was really tired..
Well, the Byzantines paid the Germans more than once to invade the Kingdom of Sicily. Does that count?
maybe what you mean is "provoke another country to go to war against your enemy"? This would make a nice diplomacy option.
I'm not sure, but this could be read two different ways I think - proxy wars and mercenaries. Mercenaries were quite common later on - I don't know about the CK period specifically, but during the religious wars in the 1600s and 1700s, a lot of smaller countries (mainly in modern Germany and Switzerland and Italy) rented out parts of their armies to larger powers during wars, while staying "neutral", and it was also common to hire independent bands of mercenaries. In both cases the hire was usually ended when the war ended.
As far as proxy wars, it wasn't all that common I think - more likely it was alliance wars, which already exist in EU and therefore I would imagine do in CK as well.
As far as proxy wars, it wasn't all that common I think - more likely it was alliance wars, which already exist in EU and therefore I would imagine do in CK as well.
Re: Re: What about ships?
A fleet of Saxon exiles helped supply the Crusader siege of Antioch through St Symeon
A fleet of Saxon exiles helped supply the Crusader siege of Antioch through St Symeon
But that option should exist I think. You could loan out your troops or ships (Richelieu extensively hired Dutch ships to help him strangle the Huguenots - a bit late for CK...) for money or cities, and there are many examples.
It could be one way a small country could expand get richer etc. without going to war itself.
It could be one way a small country could expand get richer etc. without going to war itself.