learning

[beartjah]

First of all I want to say how excellent this mod is. The feel of the game is different from vanilla, adding many hours of fun to an already great game.

But there's one thing that I don't entirely understand: Why was learning made a lot more important without there being effective(reliable) ways to raise the stat during education(if I missed some way for that, please tell me)?



Learning in vanilla has 2 functions: tech, and theology. Given that the converting is done by someone else, and tech is almost useless, it is an unimportant stat for a ruler.

The removal of tech in AGOT also removes that use, and having a good learning yourself doesn't make your court chaplain convert any faster, so those uses aren't really there in AGOT.

Instead, learning is now used to determine the education trait a character gets. Which is a rather important thing, given that the stat bonusses can be large.

However, the gain in learning during the education is completely independent of the gain in the primary stat for that character. So a child that is being raised for command by a good commander gets no bonusses towards learning, making the (level of) education trait say nothing about the characters actual abilities.

This can lead to some rather strange situations where a character has 18 martial and is a trained fighter(level 2), but is somehow still a misguided warrior(worst possible). That just breaks logic and immersion...

Also, even if you get a decent learning, a character can still get a bad education trait, and characters with low learning can still get a good education trait. So the current system doens't really do a good job at making learning tied to the education trait, and mostly ends up turning the education traits into a lottery where the chance of winning is determined with another (almost) random chance.



So why is learning made so important, without making a reliable way to raise the stat? Of course, the possibility of the education going wrong should be there, but it shouldn't be that characters that are capable commanders/stewards/whatever get an education trait saying the exact opposite...

I would've either added a way the improve learning as the main stat increases(I'll add this to my persnoal mod, I think), try to add a trait system for it or just make it dependent on the relevent stat.

 

[jtlightner]

Fathering 50 children with the same man? Yep. Conquering a whole empire? Done that. Valyrian steel swords and becoming a dragon rider? So yesterday.

Building a dynasty that is smart, useful, and stands the test of time? Now there is a challenge.

 

[jtlightner]

In all seriousness - that is the reason I have poured 1500 hours into this game since it has launched. No matter how hard you try - somewhere along the way your dynasty can go seriously wrong. As with most great families of history generally their own internal politics were their downfall rather than outside forces. E.g. Charlemagne. His family ripped apart the empire he built within one generation of his death. Carolingian or Karling as they are referred to in the 867 bookmark the Karling's are each in control of Italy, East Francia, West Francia, and Lotharingia. Also the same with the Jimenez family in the Iberian peninsula

 

[blackninja9939]

First of all I want to say how excellent this mod is. The feel of the game is different from vanilla, adding many hours of fun to an already great game.

But there's one thing that I don't entirely understand: Why was learning made a lot more important without there being effective(reliable) ways to raise the stat during education(if I missed some way for that, please tell me)?



Learning in vanilla has 2 functions: tech, and theology. Given that the converting is done by someone else, and tech is almost useless, it is an unimportant stat for a ruler.

The removal of tech in AGOT also removes that use, and having a good learning yourself doesn't make your court chaplain convert any faster, so those uses aren't really there in AGOT.

Instead, learning is now used to determine the education trait a character gets. Which is a rather important thing, given that the stat bonusses can be large.

However, the gain in learning during the education is completely independent of the gain in the primary stat for that character. So a child that is being raised for command by a good commander gets no bonusses towards learning, making the (level of) education trait say nothing about the characters actual abilities.

This can lead to some rather strange situations where a character has 18 martial and is a trained fighter(level 2), but is somehow still a misguided warrior(worst possible). That just breaks logic and immersion...

Also, even if you get a decent learning, a character can still get a bad education trait, and characters with low learning can still get a good education trait. So the current system doens't really do a good job at making learning tied to the education trait, and mostly ends up turning the education traits into a lottery where the chance of winning is determined with another (almost) random chance.



So why is learning made so important, without making a reliable way to raise the stat? Of course, the possibility of the education going wrong should be there, but it shouldn't be that characters that are capable commanders/stewards/whatever get an education trait saying the exact opposite...

I would've either added a way the improve learning as the main stat increases(I'll add this to my persnoal mod, I think), try to add a trait system for it or just make it dependent on the relevent stat.

Firstly your fighter levels have nothing to do with your martial or education.
Secondly, your children's learning is raised via your Maester or cultural equivalent of a Maester.
The reason that you can gain different educations with different learning amounts is because you have % chances based of your learning and the factor of that education eg: you would have a 10% chance of being level 1 martial, 20% chance of level 2, 40% chance of level 3 and 30% chance of being level 4. This is to simulate that even the brightest of kids can not be good at the job they do. I might have a great understanding of war in theory but might be bad at putting it into practice. At least that is how I view it.

 

[Seve82]

Sadly the maester teaches children event is nearly as rare as is converting provinces to your religion and it doesn't always even raise learning when it happens to fire not to even mention the cases when it manages to reduce skills. This even if the maesters constantly have teaching skill over 15.

On the other hand I think it is good way to simulate the fact that some people just don't bother with education and imo there should be no better than trained fighter or any other trait above 2nd tier when character is 16 years old. Instead there should be incremental chance of becoming better in the main trained skill of diplo/mil/intrigue/steward/teach when character gets older and more experienced in such matters but alas I think that would require major coding or is simply impossible.

 

[TankRush]

I've seen multiple stats (2) go up at the same time over the course of a child's education, so it's not always the 'primary' stat of the character, and more like that the higher the rating the mentor has in something, the more likely the pupil will have that base stat increase. And yeah, the event can be spotty. Which is why I often assassinate stupid meisters.

One nice thing about not tieing education to mentor is that you don't have to worry about messing up the final skill level they get by having them switch mentors 5 times during their education (or at least that's what I've always noticed). Especially good for an heir, because say while you may want him to be a kickass plotter, you might also want him to be good at diplomacy so you can get people to join your plots.

 

[beartjah]

Firstly your fighter levels have nothing to do with your martial or education.
Secondly, your children's learning is raised via your Maester or cultural equivalent of a Maester.
The reason that you can gain different educations with different learning amounts is because you have % chances based of your learning and the factor of that education eg: you would have a 10% chance of being level 1 martial, 20% chance of level 2, 40% chance of level 3 and 30% chance of being level 4. This is to simulate that even the brightest of kids can not be good at the job they do. I might have a great understanding of war in theory but might be bad at putting it into practice. At least that is how I view it.

There is no real way to control your Maester's capabilities, that's mostly down to luck (except for going on a killing spree and sending for new Maesters all the time, but that's very costly to do, but for reputation and treasury, also: correct if I'm wrong).

The system is that you need to have a good Maester, to be (a bit) lucky with events, to increase to chance of a good education for your children (at least, that's what I understood). Which is, as far as I can see, mostly without any meaningfull input from the player(f.e. assigning a good guardian or paying for better accomodations). So it doesn't really make for a fun system to deal with, because there's nothing you can really do.

I think some better way te control the Maester's skill might add something fun to the system if it works that way (f.e. the possibility to attempt to bribe the citadel to send a better Maester).


But more importantly: the system should be explained in-game. As far as I know, there is no explanation in-game as to how the education system is change, and what the use of a Maester even is(which makes sending for one seem like a useless thing to do...).

 

[Seve82]

I find it cheapest/easiest way to get good maester is to just go to char finder and bribing and then inviting good maester from someones court. It has the precondition of maester not being on good terms with his liege and might get bit tedious sometimes.

 

[blackninja9939]

There is no real way to control your Maester's capabilities, that's mostly down to luck (except for going on a killing spree and sending for new Maesters all the time, but that's very costly to do, but for reputation and treasury, also: correct if I'm wrong).

The system is that you need to have a good Maester, to be (a bit) lucky with events, to increase to chance of a good education for your children (at least, that's what I understood). Which is, as far as I can see, mostly without any meaningfull input from the player(f.e. assigning a good guardian or paying for better accomodations). So it doesn't really make for a fun system to deal with, because there's nothing you can really do.

I think some better way te control the Maester's skill might add something fun to the system if it works that way (f.e. the possibility to attempt to bribe the citadel to send a better Maester).


But more importantly: the system should be explained in-game. As far as I know, there is no explanation in-game as to how the education system is change, and what the use of a Maester even is(which makes sending for one seem like a useless thing to do...).

Did you read the manual and FAQ as it definitely explains the new system

 

[MikeCK]

On a similar note, what happens if I send my Martial counsel member to a province to "train children in combat". I only have one son and he is 2...so whose kids is he training?

 

[beartjah]

On a similar note, what happens if I send my Martial counsel member to a province to "train children in combat". I only have one son and he is 2...so whose kids is he training?

His combat skill (that fighter/warrior trait) can improve to the level of the marshall in steps (one level per event). It can't happen if the child is better then the marshall.
Though the child can also get a negative event (not certain what it exactly does, I think it adds some bad traits).

In general, the better the marshall is (both in martial stat, and combat trait), the more succesfull the training will be.

 

[Duke of Awesome]

I didn't even realize that the education system was different from vanilla, I though the maesters were there for flavor more than anything, and the occasional event where they help or hinder your or your children.

EDIT: I check the FAQ, and it seems a bit out of date for maesters, since it mentions them having jobs.

 

[Seve82]

They used to have assign duties option but game kept crashing if one had more than 5(?) council members one one holding their tasks were automated and now they just stick around in your main holding. One can still move their character on map tho...