Legality, copyright, etc.

[CommonData]

So I know that modding is generally pretty safe from copyright and all that, but I still want to be extremely sure. I was planning on incorporating a lot of the Endless Legend/Space species as playable species in Stellaris through modding. I was planning on ripping the 2D models straight from the game and using Photoshop and Maya to edit and incorporate them. However, due to this not being my own art, and it being released under my own mod.. Is this allowed? Would asking permission/crediting the developers (something I was already planning on doing) be okay? Or is this simply not okay across the board?

 

[Miklu]

So I know that modding is generally pretty safe from copyright and all that, but I still want to be extremely sure. I was planning on incorporating a lot of the Endless Legend/Space species as playable species in Stellaris through modding. I was planning on ripping the 2D models straight from the game and using Photoshop and Maya to edit and incorporate them. However, due to this not being my own art, and it being released under my own mod.. Is this allowed? Would asking permission/crediting the developers (something I was already planning on doing) be okay? Or is this simply not okay across the board?

I think that's pretty fucking illegal, but I don't really know how copyright and fair use really works with mods and such

 

[aruon]

if your straight up ripping models or sprites from a copyrighted source, it IS infringement and not protected by fair use.

if you take a model/sprite and make significant changes to it (basically anything more than a palette swap & nip and tuck) than it is safe, either from fair use (if it's still very similar) or entirely unrecognizable.

oversimplified and needlessly long example:

say you use the name and image of Steven Spielberg. obviously the world renowned director doesn't take well to you using his name and likeness and files a C&D

so you change the name to Steven Gielberg but leave the image intact. obviously a total BS move as the name is still quite clearly a knockoff and the image is straight from the internet. it might work in china, but nowhere else. C&D

so you change the name to Stephen Spelbourg, and photoshop the hell out of the stock image to the point where the casual passerby don't recognize who is on the picture without some close examination. this is safe and will hold up.

EDIT: ok who the hell disagreed with me and miklu? we aren't wrong.

 

[masterui]

Just ask for their permission, make it non-profit and you should be fine.

It's not like there's going to be an Endless Space dlc for Stellaris anyway.

 

[aruon]

Just ask for their permission, make it non-profit and you should be fine.

it depends. some companies like Games Workshop have a tendency to go on witch hunts and thoroughly abuse the concept of fair use and shut down mods. others are just touchy about their IPs. there's a mod for sins of a solar empire that's an EVE total conversion. those mod devs had to get permission from CCP first.

 

[IndoEsia45]

If you watch anime they usually like to rearrange brand names like Starbucks -> Horsebugs to prevent copyright issue.

In FSX modders freely use company name like Airbus, ERJ, Boeing including hundreds of airlines without repercussion. Maybe only the paidware need specific permission from the manufacturer.

The relevant question is what's PI stance on this? Will they strictly reject copyrighted materials or not. Otherwise some external sites will be needed.

 

[aruon]

If you watch anime they usually like to rearrange brand names like Starbucks -> Horsebugs to prevent copyright issue.

In FSX modders freely use company name like Airbus, ERJ, Boeing including hundreds of airlines without repercussion. Maybe only the paidware need specific permission from the manufacturer.

The relevant question is what's PI stance on this? Will they strictly reject copyrighted materials or not. Otherwise some external sites will be needed.

PI is rarely on edge with it. the only time that PI has had to put their mod-friendly titles on the line is when HBO was worrying about the AGOT mod being a little too popular to not be giving PI an advertising boost of the GoT IP.

so i doubt Somy and Gagle will appear anywhere.

 

[CommonData]

Perhaps. Still, I think I'll shoot an email to the developers first about it (and perhaps to the publisher? Who knows if it'll get seen by them though lol.). Worst comes to worst I'll just rename the races and bust out some mad MSPaint skills.

 

[Killzerslaul]

It is almost certainly illegal to use content from another game without permission or an appropriate license. Not gonna go into detail but people seem to have a misconception of how Fair Use interacts with these situations; it's meant to let you show a screenshot in a review or w/e, not just borrow content wholesale to produce another work. The question is simply whether you are willing to accept the risk of the content owner reacting to your misuse of their content.


Of course, Paradox doesn't accept the risk of encouraging or hosting such efforts.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...user-made-mods-and-edits-of-pds-games.708039/

6) The User Mod should not include 3rd party copyright material, without permission of the copyright holder.

 

[Juboboman]

It is almost certainly illegal to use content from another game without permission or an appropriate license. Not gonna go into detail but people seem to have a misconception of how Fair Use interacts with these situations; it's meant to let you show a screenshot in a review or w/e, not just borrow content wholesale to produce another work. The question is simply whether you are willing to accept the risk of the content owner reacting to your misuse of their content.


Of course, Paradox doesn't accept the risk of encouraging or hosting such efforts.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...user-made-mods-and-edits-of-pds-games.708039/

So does that apply to content not from other games but IPs in general? I mean is it illegal to make a USS Enterprise mod or a Borg cube etc?

 

[aruon]

So does that apply to content not from other games but IPs in general? I mean is it illegal to make a USS Enterprise mod or a Borg cube etc?

no it's legal. that's where fair use comes in. say an official star trek game is made for the first time since the turn of the millenium. if you directly take it's 3D models and transplant them to another game, that's just blatant theft. making your own 3D model of the same particular object, say the USS enterprise, is entirely valid and within fair use since you had to make the model and didn't just rip it from someone else.

 

[Killzerslaul]

making your own 3D model of the same particular object, say the USS enterprise, is entirely valid and within fair use since you had to make the model and didn't just rip it from someone else.

I'm pretty sure this is a massive overestimation of the scope of Fair Use. It's really not meant to protect these kinds of entirely derivative works.

 

[xtfoster]

So does that apply to content not from other games but IPs in general? I mean is it illegal to make a USS Enterprise mod or a Borg cube etc?

Technically yes. In fact Paramount has a long history of pursuing even non-profit violations of their IP, mainly because THEY want to control how it is used, perceived, etc.

 

[Nuraihyon]

I'm pretty sure this is a massive overestimation of the scope of Fair Use. It's really not meant to protect these kinds of entirely derivative works.

I find that it is always best to form your opinions about law based on the actual laws. This is precisely what the US law is regarding fair use:

17 U.S. Code § 107 - Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use
"Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors."

 

[shierholzer]

making your own 3D model of the same particular object, say the USS enterprise, is [...] within fair use since you had to make the model and didn't just rip it from someone else.

Your argument is solid, but is missing a key point: Not only a particular model can be protected, but also the design itself. The USS Enterprise as a concept is protected by IP legislation (not sure on the Borg cube, could be a trivial work).

--

On a general note: Most companies do not actively pursue the small scale copyright infringement that is ripping a few images/models for a non-profit mod - but that's because there's not much to be gained, not because it's legal.

((Also, Paradox is a Swedish company and fair use legislation in Europe is generally far more restrictive than in the US.))

 

[aruon]

Your argument is solid, but is missing a key point: Not only a particular model can be protected, but also the design itself. The USS Enterprise as a concept is protected by IP legislation (not sure on the Borg cube, could be a trivial work).

--

On a general note: Most companies do not actively pursue the small scale copyright infringement that is ripping a few images/models for a non-profit mod - but that's because there's not much to be gained, not because it's legal.

((Also, Paradox is a Swedish company and fair use legislation in Europe is generally far more restrictive than in the US.))

ah. thanks for clarifying that!

restrictive against people or IP holders?

 

[shierholzer]

restrictive against people or IP holders?

People. European legislation (UK excluded, as they're Europe's only Common law jurisdiction) is way more specific about what is fair use (as Civil law jurisdictions tend to be in general).

 

[Velorian]

Isn't any law that isn't Swedish irrelevant to this question?

Are other countries laws respected? Aside from laws shared with EU that is.

 

[Killzerslaul]

Isn't any law that isn't Swedish irrelevant to this question?

well, the IP owners are mostly not Swedish and it would be a bit of a stretch to argue that Paradox rather than the modder was the infringer in this scenario. So Swedish law isn't any more or less likely to come up than another country.

 

[Velorian]

well, the IP owners are mostly not Swedish and it would be a bit of a stretch to argue that Paradox rather than the modder was the infringer in this scenario. So Swedish law isn't any more or less likely to come up than another country.

Right, but if I was the infringer on an American company, and I didn't violate local laws, then they'd be hard pressed to actually punish me.