Yeah, I agree that the peasantry likely experienced little or even no cultural assimilation. But, for gameplay reasons, in Fluid Cultures I've taken "state culture" to mean "ruling-elite culture", rather than the national culture of the people.
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Yeah, I agree that the peasantry likely experienced little or even no cultural assimilation. But, for gameplay reasons, in Fluid Cultures I've taken "state culture" to mean "ruling-elite culture", rather than the national culture of the people.
The language that rulling class used isn't the main criteria...GD of Lithuania used ruthenian language as official because of practical reasons...majority of the controlled teritories had slav culture. I have to admit that lithuanian language had no wirtten form till late 18th century so it was another reason why the used ruthenian and later polish language. But as I said it wasn't the main criteria...the main thing is that they looked at themselves as aristocrats of lithuania. Don't misundestand me, this has nothing to do with 19th century nationalism. Even after Lublio unija in 1567 they felt like aristocrats of lithuania. This tendency was lost in middle of 17th century however.
I dissagee that lithuanian culture should be changed into baltic, the main reason is that lithuanians HAVE created it's own state and the latvians and prusians didn't.
P.S. the majority of the GD teritory wasn't conquered by the means of wars, it was inherited using smart diplomacy of grand dukes Kestutis, Vytautas and especially Algirdas
I dissagee that lithuanian culture should be changed into baltic, the main reason is that lithuanians HAVE created it's own state and the latvians and prusians didn't.
P.S. the majority of the GD teritory wasn't conquered by the means of wars, it was inherited using smart diplomacy of grand dukes Kestutis, Vytautas and especially Algirdas
It's true. Most of the famous commanders/hetman/generals with extremely sounding Polish names claimed they were Lithuanians. Even Mickiewicz wrote "Litwo, ojczyzno moja" "Lithuania, my fatherland"... Mickiewicz being a famous Polish writer
Originally posted by Jools
It's true. Most of the famous commanders/hetman/generals with extremely sounding Polish names claimed they were Lithuanians. Even Mickiewicz wrote "Litwo, ojczyzno moja" "Lithuania, my fatherland"... Mickiewicz being a famous Polish writer
... who came from Nowogródek, now part of Belarus.
This seriously confused the normally unflappable Economist a couple of months back.
Eastern European nationalities, they're a funny old game (as a football commentator might say)*.
Zagloba
* along with "The Commonwealth - well, it's a Kingdom of two halves, Gary".
I'm entirely agree with sebek. (Hello, you're the first Lithuanian i've seen in this Forum....)
Lithuanian culture is different of other baltic cultures, and must be keep in the game...
but, more truly, it must keep in the provinces Lithuania, Belarus (I.E Samogitie) and Memel...
I'm not Lithuanian, but a french student living in Lithuania since 2 mounths... and i can assure that lithuanian culture is different of Baltic Culture...
they've got the same origin but that's all, and it's hard for a Lithuanian to understand a Latvijan.
For example, It's the same thing if you say that French, Iberic and Italianese culture are the same.
you don't forget that Lithuanian people is the most homogenous people in the Baltic countries... and the idea of Lithuanian nation seems to exist since a long time... (Not the case for Latvija and Eesti)
I have seen few more, but there would be more lithuanians in this forum if not those greedy bastards from telekom
.....and yea there is this language barier thing too Anyway there is too many provinces with lithuanian culture (I think it's done for game balance) ...Lithuania, Belarus, Memel and Prussia...prussian culture was dead in the end of 15th century...but serious germanisation of the province took place in the middle of 18th century...historians think that in 1708 aprox. 78% of prussia's population was lithuanians and in 1798 it was around 46%
Sorry, but Prussia population wasn't Lithuanian at all. Sure, Prussians and Jacwings were Balts, but they weren't Lithuanians (at least Prussians, Jacwings were more closely related, IIRC)
btw, i know of three Lithuanians here. Legolas, The Lotus, and Sebek. Not that few, if you ask me.
btw, i know of three Lithuanians here. Legolas, The Lotus, and Sebek. Not that few, if you ask me.
<i>you don't forget that Lithuanian people is the most homogenous people in the Baltic countries... and the idea of Lithuanian nation seems to exist since a long time... (Not the case for Latvija and Eesti)</i>
Eesti (Estonia) may be a Baltic State, but it is Ugric ethnically and linguistically. So, yes, Lithuanians and Estonians are very distinct.
However, Prussians, Letts, Jatvingians, Galindians, Neurians, Latvians, and Lithuanians are all Balts. Similarly, Portuguese, Spanish, Andalusians, and Catalans are all Iberians. Ruthenians, Ukrainians, and Bielorussians are all Ruthenian Slavs. Austrians, Bavarians, and Brandenburgers are all Germans.
Eesti (Estonia) may be a Baltic State, but it is Ugric ethnically and linguistically. So, yes, Lithuanians and Estonians are very distinct.
However, Prussians, Letts, Jatvingians, Galindians, Neurians, Latvians, and Lithuanians are all Balts. Similarly, Portuguese, Spanish, Andalusians, and Catalans are all Iberians. Ruthenians, Ukrainians, and Bielorussians are all Ruthenian Slavs. Austrians, Bavarians, and Brandenburgers are all Germans.
Originally posted by St. Leo
Eesti (Estonia) may be a Baltic State, but it is Ugric ethnically and linguistically. So, yes, Lithuanians and Estonians are very distinct.
yes, But Lithuanian are the most numerosous....
,
yeah, but most of these people were very few, as in 1419. Is for this reason i'm agree to put the Letts, Kourres, Lives, etc... in the same generic baltic culture. But all these peoples don't have the idea to create their own nation...unlike the Lithuanian
Yeah, and don't forget that french culture is a very artificiel matter. A northern French (like me) is Culturally different that a southern French (There is a lot of joke with that)...
But in EU, the notion of culture is designed to make territory in a same countrties. (Like the French). But in my opinion...The baltic peoples didn't want to belong in a only Lithuanian nation
Yes, but you can apply it only to hugew nations like French. It is hard to diverse between southern and northern Lithuania...
Well the territory in EU2 represented as province of Prussia was inhabited by lithuanians (in the north) and prussians (in the south)...(lithuanians lived on both sides of Neman, not just one), but anyway the assimilation of prussians has allready started when teotonic order invaded those lands, so it's really difficult to tell where one culture ends and another begins.
As for jacwings...the western part have been assimilated into lithuaninan culture and the eastern part into slavic culture some time before 1419
He was in fact the only crowned king. It was a shrewd move in a way that he wanted to launch Lithuania into the Latin world, but which ultimately was his downfall at the hands of hardcore pagans.
Or, as another story goes, he was killed by a jealous husband of some woman he fancied
Welcome to the forum, SarunasOriginally posted by Sarunas
He was in fact the only crowned king. It was a shrewd move in a way that he wanted to launch Lithuania into the Latin world, but which ultimately was his downfall at the hands of hardcore pagans.
Or, as another story goes, he was killed by a jealous husband of some woman he fancied
You seem to be (correct me if I'm wrong) from Lithuania and quite knowledgeable on their history, so I hope you'll be able to help us out on that area.Did you notice how old that thread you dug up is, though? More recent discussions on the topic can be found in the EEP Northeastern Europe and the AGC / EEP Poland- Lithuania threads. Your contribution will certainly be appreciated (and I'm serious 'bout that, this ain't no stupid default reply or something
)Btw, I love your sig, especially since it's a more complete and more clear version of the one Isaac Brock used to have a time ago
Originally posted by Twoflower
Welcome to the forum, Sarunas
Did you notice how old that thread you dug up is, though? More recent discussions on the topic can be found in the EEP Northeastern Europe and the AGC / EEP Poland- Lithuania threads. Your contribution will certainly be appreciated (and I'm serious 'bout that, this ain't no stupid default reply or something
Btw, I love your sig, especially since it's a more complete and more clear version of the one Isaac Brock used to have a time ago
Yea, Vilnius Lithuania is my location. Rather new to EU2, but love the game immensely. And have some knowledge of history, but nothing major. Will help out if possible.