Lore: What happens after a MechWarrior ejects?

[Ole122]

Okay, I never played Battletech or read much about the background apart from some of the PC games, so this might be a stupid or easy question.

I always wondered what happens after a pilot ejects? I know that shooting upon an ejected pilot is a big no-no, but apart from that? Is it just a PC game thing that pilots that have ejected find their way back to their own lines or do they actually get granted free passage/get repatriated fluff-wise or do they end up as PoWs?

 

[Deaghaidh]

If they aren't pirates or war criminals they can expect reasonable enough treatment if captured. Arranging a ransom or prisoner exchange might be an option and their best bet. Otherwise they might indeed be stuck as PoWs for a good long time. Conditions depend of course on the captors value system and whether they consider the defeated someone worthy of respect and honor.

Deliberately stepping on or killing a downed pilot with your mech is considered a dick move. If they are armed and won't surrender they are fair game for infantry.

Many pilots carry a sidearm on them for such a situation. If they are able they will try to get to friendly territory. If they are Mercs or otherwise owned their own mech, they are kind of screwed if they can't recover it. They basically are dependant on finding an employer with one they can use. That's referred to as being Disposessed. If they are part of a regular army unit they will likely be assigned a different mech depending on what's available locally, their rank and reputation, and whether they are injured or not.

There are of course exceptions. In certain circumstances a Draconis MW might be expected to commit ritual suicide, though Theodore Kurita started to discourage this since it cost the Combine good officers. Clanners are largely expected to die fighting, though they can be offered safe passage from the battlefield (hegira) without losing any honor.

In general treatment of captured enemies is handled with some semblance of chivalry. What that means exactly depends on the culture of the captor and captured.

 

[WhiteChapel]

A lot of this depends on the nature of the battlefield. If it's a full fledged battlefield with house regulars, armor and infantry, then considerate the same as a modern pilot who gets shot down. They'll need to evade and escape till the can make contact with SAR. Bigger units have dedicated SAR forces for recovering pilots who get taken out and fall behind the lines. If it's mercs on mercs, there's a good chance it's more like WWI aviators: giving some aid, offer them a drink, and walking them back to their unit. Their professionals, nobody wants to die earning a paycheck. Word of warning: infantry will frequently kill mechwarriors they catch (as payback since mechs slaughter infantry/PBI on the battlefield).

As an added problem, if you actually own your mech and you lose it you join the ranks of the dispossessed. It's roughly the equivalent of being homeless. Huge stigma, huge loss of income, etc. Basically, your ruined. Find a bottle, climb in.

 

[BlackCatF]

Generally, what Deaghaidh said is true, but that's only if everyone involved follows the accepted conventions. There are some very specific instances in the lore of that not being the case. The ones that pop to mind first for me are some of the long-standing feuds between merc units and certain Successor States or Successor Lords. The Eridani Light Horse on Sendai kind of is an example; though that was dependents held hostage not "POWs", per se. It's been too long and I don't remember any specific examples, but I swear they're out there (Kurita vs. every major merc unit, maybe).

Anyway, I am involved in an ongoing play-by-post story with some members of my MWO unit (it's been going on for a few years now) and my character, a merc Lt., got shot out of his Victor, his ejection seat malfunctioned and he got captured behind enemy lines. The house military unit they were fighting was being directed by the antagonist, who had a stake in wiping out the merc unit so my Lt. was not treated with kid gloves. It was a good plot twist; I had a great time writing it and enjoyed some of the posts that other authors on the story put up to go along with it, too.

 

[Deaghaidh]

Yeah plenty of people don't play by the rules. Taking dependants hostage seems to happen a lot. But that's usually at the instigation of a Political power, rather than the professional soldiers. Or in instances of a particularly nasty feud. And Pirates or others considered war criminals or dishonorable shouldn't expect to be taken alive, even when dealing with reasonably civilized opponents.

IIRC the Wolf Dragoons vs Waco Rangers feud began with the allegation that one of the Wolf brothers deliberately stepped on a downed Waco mechwarrior, their CO's son.

 

[storm dragon]

As said it's much like a downed fighter pilot, if you can get back to your lines or your side wins your safe ( providing you survive the battle around you ) otherwise your taken prisoner ( maybe killed on sight if it's the wrong enemy or they see you as a criminal ) . Treatment of prisoners I'd imagine is mostly culture based some will just lock you up , others question you ( maybe none to gently ) and the clans taking you as a bondsman

 

[Looreed]

Sometimes it is possible that a noble house or merc unit pay ComStar to bring back the downed Mechwarrior safely to his unit. ComStar act as a bailsmen and pay the ransom for this Mechwarrior.
This is what the Blood Chit on the backer jacket told us.

 

[Vanguard319]

Generally, the mechwarrior would be entitled to the right to be ransomed to his unit or house, assuming you weren't a pirate at which point you could expect to be imprisoned or executed depending on the severity of your crimes. If you were fighting a clan unit, you would be claimed as a bondsman for a period of time until the clan decided to repatriate you, or adopt you into the clan.

 

[Kurek]

I was thinking about ejection yesterday but more about what happens to your family heirloom black jack in the mission after the tutorial. Your mech gets disabled and you have to eject and then the baddies win the day and take over the planet, but why do they just leave this mech out there in the open and let some random merc group swoop in and pick it up? Surely they'd take it themselves right? I don't really know much about the settings background but aren't mechs supposed to be insanely valuable and hard to come by, and even broken down mechs would be salvaged for parts? Just seems kinda odd to me that they'd let it go so easily. I know it's just for gameplay and continuing the story reasons, so your dude has a mech ready to fight another day, but it just bothers me from a more logical perspective.

 

[Pht]

In more immediate terms: you hope like crazy you don't pass out, that the panels that were supposed to blow off did(major lacerations etc are possible), and that you didn't eject into something that renders you into mush; all very real threats. Usually 'mech ejection systems shoot out in one direction, even if that direction is right into the earth your mech is lying on. Some mechs can swivel their heads and eject, and others eject the whole head. All in all, ejection from a 'mech is a very dangerous prospect, even more dangerous than ejection from airplanes.

Than you just have to deal with e-warfare at powers high enough to possibly give you cancer or cook you, radioactive mech coolant spills, chemicals from ballistic propellants, etc., not even counting weapons fire ... you know, the standard battlemech field of combat. You've instantly become a PBI - Poor bloody infantry.

 

[BlackCatF]

Than you just have to deal with e-warfare at powers high enough to possibly give you cancer or cook you, radioactive mech coolant spills, chemicals from ballistic propellants, etc., not even counting weapons fire ... you know, the standard battlemech field of combat.

What the...what?

When did 'mech coolant become radioactive? Have I been missing something all this time? I thought the coolant was circulated to remove heat from the non-reactor components and then vented to the heat sinks. Even if I was using it to cool the reactor, I wouldn't run the same coolant that was going to the rest of the 'mech and the heat sinks through the reactor; I'd set up some kind of heat exchanger so that the potentially radioactive coolant stays isolated to a small portion of the machine and minimizes any exposure the pilot would get.

I'd think the metal surrounding the cockpit would block most of the EM radiation from electronic warfare equipment and the life support system would isolate the MechWarrior from environmental contaminants...it is good enough to keep the atmosphere breathable when underwater or in a vacuum, after all.

 

[TaurianMerc]

I was thinking about ejection yesterday but more about what happens to your family heirloom black jack in the mission after the tutorial. Your mech gets disabled and you have to eject and then the baddies win the day and take over the planet, but why do they just leave this mech out there in the open and let some random merc group swoop in and pick it up? Surely they'd take it themselves right? I don't really know much about the settings background but aren't mechs supposed to be insanely valuable and hard to come by, and even broken down mechs would be salvaged for parts? Just seems kinda odd to me that they'd let it go so easily. I know it's just for gameplay and continuing the story reasons, so your dude has a mech ready to fight another day, but it just bothers me from a more logical perspective.

I guess the need to take down Raju, and then deal with the loyalist Royal Guard distracted them?

Than you just have to deal with e-warfare at powers high enough to possibly give you cancer or cook you, radioactive mech coolant spills, chemicals from ballistic propellants, etc., not even counting weapons fire ... you know, the standard battlemech field of combat. You've instantly become a PBI - Poor bloody infantry.

Erm, mech coolant isn't radioactive, for starters it isn't running inside the reactor, secondly we don't know what isotopes the mech's fusion reactor is using so they may running close to full Aneutronic fusion meaning the reactor itself is barely radioactive.
Ballistic propellants will pretty much all be gasses in order to, you know propel. The small amount that doesn't entirely combust won't be any worse (in terms of volume) than what we saw during WW2 so I hardly think it will be a problem.

 

[Leone - Raid Leader]

I guess the need to take down Raju, and then deal with the loyalist Royal Guard distracted them?

I mean, they took they planet. I'm sure they just flagged the location for eventual retrieval, but they'd sabotaged all the Royal guardsmechs they could. There was tonnes of mechs to nab. Then some enterprising mercs came on by, knew how to field salvage on the quick and got the heck outta dodge with three parts of Blackjack salvage.

~Leone.

 

[Pht]

What the...what?

When did 'mech coolant become radioactive? Have I been missing something all this time? I thought the coolant was circulated to remove heat from the non-reactor components and then vented to the heat sinks. Even if I was using it to cool the reactor, I wouldn't run the same coolant that was going to the rest of the 'mech and the heat sinks through the reactor; I'd set up some kind of heat exchanger so that the potentially radioactive coolant stays isolated to a small portion of the machine and minimizes any exposure the pilot would get.

I'd think the metal surrounding the cockpit would block most of the EM radiation from electronic warfare equipment and the life support system would isolate the MechWarrior from environmental contaminants...it is good enough to keep the atmosphere breathable when underwater or in a vacuum, after all.

Mech coolant usually isn't radio active. However, it does cool the fusion engine, and the coolant is circulated throughout the entire 'mech, including the fusion engine. I have no idea exactly how it's routed in the engine itself. It's a plausible guess that they do it so it normally doesn't get irradiated. However, all the waste heat from the fusion that isn't handled by the fusion engine's regenerative cooling system (the so called "free" heat sinks in the engine) is dumped to the main cooling system. There has to be *some* proximity, even without direct contact between coolant circuits, and we know the regenerative and normal cooling systems are connected in such a way as to dump out heat.

I made the comment because coolant on the field of battle has come from damaged mechs; some which have taken damage to their fusion engines, opening the possiblity of irradiating the coolant systems in the fusion engine. This can potentially be worse if the mech that leaked the coolant was running very high heat levels - running at extreme heat can disrupt the magnetic containment fields in the fusion engines, resulting in uncontrolled reactions which can irradiate the mech (and its coolant). If the magnetic fields fail, the irradiation can be at the level to be deadly to the pilot of the 'mech, even in the otherwise shielded cockpit.

These things don't happen all the time, but they do happen.

..., secondly we don't know what isotopes the mech's fusion reactor is using so they may running close to full Aneutronic fusion meaning the reactor itself is barely radioactive.

Thanks to cray, we actually do know:

The usual fuel used in modern fusion engines is normal hydrogen, the protium isotope to be specific. Historically other fuels were used in early fusion reactors; anything from heavier hydrogen isotopes like deuterium and tritium, to the helium-3 isotope and even lithium.

And canon wise, fusions do irradiate their interiors:

All fusion reactions generate radiation... they irradiate their interiors, which causes problems when the reactor must be serviced or decommissioned. Because of this radiation shielding is the largest portion of a 'Mech scale fusion engine's mass.

Ballistic propellants will pretty much all be gasses in order to, you know propel. The small amount that doesn't entirely combust won't be any worse (in terms of volume) than what we saw during WW2 so I hardly think it will be a problem.

Eh, I wasn't thinking that'd be deadly or life altering, just nasty stuff that could mess with your skin/eyes and breathing if you got too much exposure.

 

[TaurianMerc]

Thanks to cray, we actually do know:


And canon wise, fusions do irradiate their interiors:

Erm, you're quotes are claiming you are quoting yourself, can you give me the exact references please?
As I said before, if they are working anywhere near to Aneutronic Fusion (and i see no reason why they couldn't be written that way) then the free neutrons will be carrying less than 1% of the total energy. So the radiation still exists but it's complicated and depends on the actual reaction (a H-1 and B-11 fusion reaction would leave almost nothing - the Alpha particles are easliy stopped).
Even if not, the reactor itself probably relies on conduction though the shielding for cooling with the heat sinks well on the outside. Having the coolant running inside the actual reactor would defeat the point of a plasma based reaction which requires insanely high temperatures to operate.
At the end of the day, as has been said elsewhere on here it's futile trying argue from the point of view of real world physics when discussing this game.

 

[BrianDavion]

One thing to keep in mind is that battlemech pilots are nobility, and the setting employs a lot of the medieval tradtions etc. One of these would be how captured mechwarriors exists (this BTW is ESPECIALLY relevant in the days of 3025, by time the 3060s rolls around things have changed. the rapid development of new battlemech designs and the factories to produce them. as well as new developments in training techniques that allowed greater access to mechwarrior training for those coming from the middle class (spear headed by Hanse Davion's training Battalions) really put an end towards the "mechwarrior as nobility and knights" and moved it more towards "mechwarrior as modern combat pilots"

back in 3025 even if you just piloted a LOCUST, that made you SOMEBODY, and being dispossed was a HUUGE threat. in 3060 mechs are MUCH easier to get.

 

[Pht]

Up front: thanks to your post I went poking about and learned something I hadn't known before. Thanks.

Erm, you're quotes are claiming you are quoting yourself, can you give me the exact references please?

... that'd be exactly why I used the quote function, so there'd be a clickable direct link to the post, which has a bibliography:

TechManual, pgs 31-43
Catalyst Game Labs, 2007
Product code 35002
ISBN-10: 0979204720
"Battlemech Tech: A Primer" By Mike Miller, aka "Cray"​

Classic BattleTech Companion, pgs 233-246
Fanpro, 2003
Product code 10975
ISBN-10: 3890649750
Sub section by Mike Miller, aka "Cray"​

"The fuel of choice for modern fusion engines is normal hydrogen, the protium isotope if you want to be fancy."

TechManual, Pg 35, left column, 5th paragraph

"Fusion reactors irradiate their interiors, creating an issue when the reactor is serviced or decommissioned. As a result, radiation shielding is the largest portion of a ’Mech-scale fusion engine’s mass."

TechManual, Pg 36, left column, 2nd paragraph

"First and foremost, the fusion engine generates heat, even with all its efficient energy conversion. The delicate balancing act of sustaining fusion often results in a fusion engine producing more energy than is needed. Since there’s more energy than needed, and it’s not all converted into electricity, the excess is dumped as heat."

TM, Pg 38, LC, Para 4.

Engine Cooling Systems
In addition to the regenerative cooling system and heat sinks, fusion engines have a basic, integral cooling system separate from the regular heat sink network. This involves a set of liquid nitrogen jackets over key components and allows the engine to operate at minimal levels without outside cooling systems. Any exertions require the greater cooling capacity of the main heat sink system.

TM, Pg 37, LC, Para 2.

Even if not, the reactor itself probably relies on conduction though the shielding for cooling with the heat sinks well on the outside. Having the coolant running inside the actual reactor would defeat the point of a plasma based reaction which requires insanely high temperatures to operate.

----

At the end of the day, as has been said elsewhere on here it's futile trying argue from the point of view of real world physics when discussing this game.

As I said, BT mech fusion engines irradiate their cores. Add in combat damage, mix a disrupted magnetic field, and you get an irradiated mech - which includes the coolant, obviously.
----
I'm not speculating. The stuff I'm quoting is canon, and is the guiding source on the 'mechs. We do know what we've been told.

That fluff of Tech Manual would be adhered to by default. I can and have pointed out mistakes in control descriptions in BattleCorps stories and referred the author to the Tech Manual for the correct descriptions. (Not directly - such continuity commentary is subject to editorial / line developer oversight. See point 5, above.) As it stands, Tech Manual has the current descriptions of how BattleMech weaponry and movement is controlled and writers stick to that.

Source Link

Cray is the author of said subsection, and if you scroll down the thread, you'll see that this process has been in place for quite some time.

 

[Pht]

BattleMech fusion reactors consist of several key components. The magnetic bottle, which contains the field coils and the actual nuclear reaction, is housed inside a fully densified tungsten carbide containment compartment, often reinforced with boron whiskers for toughness. The reactor controls and so on are mounted on the outside of the containment compartment. Covering the containment is a series of internal cooling coils filled with liquid nitrogen, filtered through a cooling grid array usually at the front end of the fusion engine. This cooling grid only allows for minimal operation of the reactor core; full operation generates so much heat that the heat sink network must be on-line in order for the reactor to generate the power needed to move and fire. These heat sink network interfaces tie in at the outer armored shell that covers the internal cooling system ... .

Classic Battletech Companion, Page 242, left column, paragraph 3.

Not sure how the external heatsink network is connected; but this is still interesting info. We at least know how the reactor core itself is cooled.

 

[TaurianMerc]

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on the wider implications.
I thought you were using other sources I had no access to (I have both of those).
Nothing in Cray's piece negates the use of a H-1 B-11 reaction (Protium is H-1) which will irradiate the interior of the reactor, since outside of the containment field there is a vacuum, but that will only be an issue for those handling the actual shielding. If the reactor was cracked the alpha particles will not get very far, it's been a while but iirc these reaction generate minuscule or no beta or gamma output.
It would also make sense as this reaction requires an obscenely high temperature to initiate, but also has a high output with little lost through free neutrons.