By the end of the game that's going to be a pretty safe assumption for most competent players, unless inheritance is essentially random. You're not going to become shogun in the first place without learning how to keep titles in the family.
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Also, remember that Clan Leaders are elected by the vassal band, so family members inheriting is not a given.
My point is that unless you have your vassals whipped into submission so you can concentrate on other things you're unlikely to be able to get so far as seizing the shogunate. Unless Sengoku plays very differently from any other paradox game the player won't have much trouble securing the succession by that stage.
I believe in Sengoku, at least considering the reviews already written, that there will be trouble in securing succession.
Also, it seems it is not possible to commit seppuku unless under some very specific circumstances.
Also, it seems it is not possible to commit seppuku unless under some very specific circumstances.
I didn't realize you could commit Seppuku in which case completely invalidates my idea unless you can't perform it while Shogun.
I mainly would just like to see something slightly more meaningful than hold onto the Shogunate for a few years to win unless they succeed in making that a serious task.
I mainly would just like to see something slightly more meaningful than hold onto the Shogunate for a few years to win unless they succeed in making that a serious task.
I think then it might be wise to stock your clan with your own family members if succession is a concern. Will there be a way to secure election before your character dies? And will there be a way to check on how things stand like the HRE election in EU3. I don't remember seeing anything on this yet.
You can only commit seppuku by having your honor near zero. And as I've understood you start facing all sorts of problems when on low honor, so it's not really good to intentionally start lowering your honor with the purpose of offing a leader you want to die.
so you can never usurp or overthrow a throne, only built it? if the game ends when an authority is established then you can never overthrow it. so the goal is just to be come the shogan, instead of becoming the lasting, soldified shogan, where your clan will hold it for athousand years. but just to become shogan, even if it would be lost in a generation or two.
i dont actually know what a shogan is, but its like regent for a powerless figurehead emperor right? ruler of all japan in action if not name. and unless when it happens you annex all other clans into yours it doesnt make sense as an end. and in paradox games playing the underdog has always been a big part of it, and so if you cant play as a minor enemy of the shogan slowly working for him but secretly against him, plotting to put your clan on top, then it would seem to me it would be less fun.
i dont actually know what a shogan is, but its like regent for a powerless figurehead emperor right? ruler of all japan in action if not name. and unless when it happens you annex all other clans into yours it doesnt make sense as an end. and in paradox games playing the underdog has always been a big part of it, and so if you cant play as a minor enemy of the shogan slowly working for him but secretly against him, plotting to put your clan on top, then it would seem to me it would be less fun.
None of those problems would matter if dying as Shogun won the game, which was his idea. If that were the case, a player would drop his honor like mad just so they could commit suicide and win. The idea is, as he said, invalid.
The point of the game is to recreate the Sengoku period of Japan, a time of warring states. That period ended with the founding of the Tokugawa Shogunate, which lasted for near 300 years until the Meiji restoration. The founding put an end to the Sengoku period. It makes perfect sense as an end goal. Fighting against the Shogunate would be some other (fictional, ahistorical) game entirely.
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Because then you're just setting an arbitrary condition on an arbitrary rule. Why have "die as Shogun" be the victory condition at all?
It's all hypothetical anyway, since that's not the condition they are going with.
Once a player, or the AI, control X% of Japan (the exact limit is not set in stone yet - and it will be moddable) he can declare himself Shogun. To become recognized as Shogun he however needs to hold this position - not slipping under the X% - for a number of months/years (again not set yet).
During this time:
a) other clans may attack him (and they will perceive him as the bigger threat)
b) parts of his clan may break out and establish themselves as independent clans
c) a member of the same dynasty may try and usurp the clan leader title through a plot
d) you might lose the clan leader title in election when your character dies
That a clan reaches the position of claiming themselves Shogun but then crumbles due to any one or a combination of the reasons listed above is not unhistorical - it happen a number of time. See Nobunaga and Hideyoshi.
I hope that make things a little clearer
During this time:
a) other clans may attack him (and they will perceive him as the bigger threat)
b) parts of his clan may break out and establish themselves as independent clans
c) a member of the same dynasty may try and usurp the clan leader title through a plot
d) you might lose the clan leader title in election when your character dies
That a clan reaches the position of claiming themselves Shogun but then crumbles due to any one or a combination of the reasons listed above is not unhistorical - it happen a number of time. See Nobunaga and Hideyoshi.
I hope that make things a little clearer
It does matter though if your clan implodes as a result of the low honor of the clan leader, or if the low honor of your family makes your heir less likely to be elected as the next clan leader. We don't really now that much about the effects of low honor yet, but apparently seppuku is a last ditch attempt to save you from a game over, and not something you can use to just to off a character as part of some gamey tactic.
Again, arguing a hypothetical, especially as the post above makes clear what it'll be. But why not. The idea was that dying as Shogun could be the victory condition. In which case, players would find the fastest way to kill off their leader. That's not what you want your players to be doing. If they went with seppuku, it wouldn't matter who succeeded because, in this hypothetical example, as soon as your guy died, you won.
Regardless of whether seppuku would work, though, dying as Shogun makes for a bad win condition in various ways. One obvious one, right off the top of my head, is this: You become Shogun, and several clans attack you. Your Shogun dies in the first battle. Hey, presto, you won. By losing a battle. (Or, at least, by losing a general in a battle.) Another: I'd assume a Shogun would be a tempting target for ninja assassination, no? Except, oops,the ninja succeeded, and the clan that sent him just made you win.
The original idea was that you'd win the game if you die as shogun and the title gets inherited by your family, which is not the same thing as die as shogun = auto-win, since you'd still have to work to secure your succession. And in that case losing your honor and having your ruler commit seppuku might not be a viable strategy, since it might actually ruin your familys chances of succeeding to the shogun title, or your clan might fall apart before you reach the point where you can kill yourself.
Anyway, we know already what the winning conditions are going to be as stated by Captain Gars.