Love this game but need advice on how to make it more challanging!

[MsCabbage]

My first game developed CTD at turn 65 but that was quite handy as it was a learning game and I was getting my butt kicked!

I am now on turn 148 on my second game where I left everything at default and played humans and set the difficulty to impossible. The problem is it looks like I am going to win and I love this game but I lose interest rapidly if there is no challenge. For me I am happiest playing a game I feel I will lose unless I consider everything I do carefully.

So if you have read this far what I would really love from you are suggestions to make this game harder with maybe the initial start up of the game or any other ideas. Maybe handicapping by not using certain spells like land of life etc... About the only change I probably wouldn't be too keen on would be to make the world huge as this I imagine might just result on a massive grind but there might be nice balance on world size that lets the AI get tougher without too much potential grind.

I have already gathered that Armageddon will add some difficulty but will add that when I have mastered the game without that to add some staying power to the game. Oh and considering DLC I brought the Elves one but the other ones really didn't look they were going to add much - mind you that isn't effecting my current game as I started without. I might buy the other DLC just to support the game developers.

Anyway I have a day off today so will be playing the game and checking here regularly for ideas for my next game so I will respond quickly today to any suggestions as I want to create template and rulebook for a new game that will really nearly be impossible . Hopefully then others can benefit as well.

 

[The Apprentice]

Welcome to the board! Sadly, the general consensus is that Warlock just isn't that challenging, even on impossible. (I enjoy it a bunch, but I have fun building a big empire or training/equipping powerful heroes, not beating the AI rapidly.)

Some players have found using house rules like "Racial Purity" (only have an empire with cities/units from your starting race, razing all other cities you capture immediately) or "No special resource perks" (ie, University Training is fine but adamantium armor isn't) to re-inject challenge into the game. Those never worked for me, as I always felt I was gimping myself for no purpose. To each their own, though.

The Armageddon DLC goes a long way to adding challenge back into the game- the nature of the threat means you can have powerful enemy units appear anywhere in your empire from about turn 20 onward. Try playing on the Great Lands Map (largest size) with no pocket dimensions- the Dremer won't invade the pocket dimensions, so excluding them raises the challenge and restricts your available resources. The Great Land setup minimizes water, which means fewer Dremer drownings, increasing the number of Dremer surviving each arrival.

Playing Armageddon on a small map reduces the challenge, larger maps/empires make it harder to throw your best units at every challenge. At least, in my experience.

Prior to Armageddon I was able to play essentially ignoring the AI while I build up my empire- there was never any real chance of me losing after the first 30 or so turns. With Armageddon, that feeling of needing to carefully consider each turn came back. I'm sure others will chime in with some advice, as well. :happy:

 

[loki100]

to me, its a throwback to what used to be called a 'beer and pretzels' game (ie you can have a lot of fun but is not complicated). That, and this is very much my view, is its delight, I have other games I play for a challenge (even against the AI). Armageddon certainly increases the challenge in that you need to think a lot more about your armies, their deployment and try to balance them for the task and so on.

I really hope at some stage they make MP stable, its relative simplicity would be a superb base for a long multi-player game with all sorts of inter-player politics. Even better ... oh please ... set up a PBEM option.

But you will win, and will win without too much undue effort, I just bumble along with unmaximised cities and a vague idea of establishing a decent core empire, clear a couple of portals and have fun. I've never actually finished a game, but mine tend to go to 200+ turns.

Equally do play with different races, they each favour a particular game style so its good to try one that doesn't suit your usual approach.

 

[MsCabbage]

Hey thanks the suggestions and interesting insights!

So I like this idea of Racial Puirty very much as it certainly would make it more difficult and is arguably roleplaying. Not sure I completely understand the "No special resource perks" as would that mean it was say ok to build on the perk and benefit with units from that city BUT not OK to to upgrade units OR simply no special resouces perks whatsoever...

And it looks like introducing dremels will simply be essential for more challange - mind you they won't wipe out the the AI will they? Slightly worried about losing the resource perks as this might limit some of the strategic element...

What about only playing every other turn as an idea - would that be practical?

So to summarise house rules to get a delicious increase in difficulty could be

1. Racial Purity
2. No Resource Perks
3. Add Dremels
4. World Type - Great Land
5. World Size - Large

 

[unmerged(15561)]

Hey thanks the suggestions and interesting insights!

So I like this idea of Racial Puirty very much as it certainly would make it more difficult and is arguably roleplaying. Not sure I completely understand the "No special resource perks" as would that mean it was say ok to build on the perk and benefit with units from that city BUT not OK to to upgrade units OR simply no special resouces perks whatsoever...

And it looks like introducing dremels will simply be essential for more challange - mind you they won't wipe out the the AI will they? Slightly worried about losing the resource perks as this might limit some of the strategic element...

What about only playing every other turn as an idea - would that be practical?

So to summarise house rules to get a delicious increase in difficulty could be

1. Racial Purity
2. No Resource Perks
3. Add Dremels
4. World Type - Great Land
5. World Size - Large

Welcome... Id also suggest experimenting by playing on HARD instead of impossible and with fewer than the max. no. of opponents.
I also try to make my games harder by not building temples, so I cant use their heroes. These can be really powerful but also shorten the game.

 

[MsCabbage]

You have intrigued me by suggesting HARD is harder than impossible - could you elaborate as to the reasons for that? Interesting you suggest using less than the max no of opponents as I was thinking more might simply mean they waste resources attacking each other. So maybe on a large size world only 3 opponents and then pick them so 1 of each race type.

So a revised house rule list

1. Racial Purity
2. No Resource Perks
3. Add Dremels
4. World Type - Great Land
5. World Size - Large
6. Pick three oponents one of each Human, Undead, Elves

 

[unmerged(529460)]

Couple more I use:

Zero Sum Cities: To build a settler you have to raze a city. (Settlers from captured cities are to be deleted.)
(Works well with a limited version of "Racial Purity", since captured cities would use up a city slot.)

Lords Limit: Only one, or only two.

 

[unmerged(15561)]

You have intrigued me by suggesting HARD is harder than impossible - could you elaborate as to the reasons for that? Interesting you suggest using less than the max no of opponents as I was thinking more might simply mean they waste resources attacking each other. So maybe on a large size world only 3 opponents and then pick them so 1 of each race type.

So a revised house rule list

1. Racial Purity
2. No Resource Perks
3. Add Dremels
4. World Type - Great Land
5. World Size - Large
6. Pick three oponents one of each Human, Undead, Elves

Nothing concrete, but I have a theory that the Impossible level makes the AI a little more single-minded in its aggression - so it units attack more like lemmings... but this is just a hunch. As I/we dont know what the difficult levels define... its hard to be sure!

 

[MsCabbage]

Nothing concrete, but I have a theory that the Impossible level makes the AI a little more single-minded in its aggression - so it units attack more like lemmings... but this is just a hunch. As I/we dont know what the difficult levels define... its hard to be sure!

Yes I could that happening so yes experimenting with that would be a good idea but for my next game I think I will still use impossible as I would hope some very 'unfair' resource bonus etc... should be applied to AI on impossible.

 

[MsCabbage]

Couple more I use:

Zero Sum Cities: To build a settler you have to raze a city. (Settlers from captured cities are to be deleted.)
(Works well with a limited version of "Racial Purity", since captured cities would use up a city slot.)

Lords Limit: Only one, or only two.

Ah that Zero Sum Cities sounds very interesting and might add more strategy as well! And also stop my over breeding of settlers o
So initially you would only have one city and to get another you have to raze another captured city before you could build another? What does settlers from captured cities are to be deleted mean?

With Zero Sum Cities I think resource perks can be brought back into play to increase strategy so my (our) revised house rule list is now

1. Racial Purity
2. Zero Sum Cities
3. Add Dremels
4. World Type - Great Land
5. World Size - Large
6. Pick three oponents one of each Human, Undead, Elves
7. Max of two Lords

 

[unmerged(529460)]

What does settlers from captured cities are to be deleted mean?

Sorry - meant "razed cities". I delete the settler generated from razing a sufficiently large city.

 

[Mahrdol]

Some good suggestions here. I wish there was a more in depth custom setting where you could ban heroes, spells, items and other aspects of the game.



My suggestions. Invisibility and items that give same spell like power need to be not used. I don't use the land raising and lower. I find the super continent on large seems to be harder. Everyone is stuck in the middle of the map fighting it out. Can't hide as much along the edge of the map.

 

[unmerged(15561)]

Some good suggestions here. I wish there was a more in depth custom setting where you could ban heroes, spells, items and other aspects of the game.



My suggestions. Invisibility and items that give same spell like power need to be not used. I don't use the land raising and lower. I find the super continent on large seems to be harder. Everyone is stuck in the middle of the map fighting it out. Can't hide as much along the edge of the map.

Definitely some spell combos are just to OP, esp. if used on real beastie units.

 

[MsCabbage]

Okey dokey so from the last two posts (thanks) adapted house rules... Haven't added specific spells or item restrictions as well maybe that is going into too much micro management?

1. Racial Purity
2. Zero Sum Cities
3. Add Dremels
4. World Type - Super Continent
5. World Size - Large
6. Pick three oponents one of each Human, Undead, Elves
7. Max of two Lords

 

[PkK]

I prefer not to have permant restrictions. I just give the opponents a head start by doing nothing for a few turns at game start.

Philipp

 

[Dauros]

Probably a game on medium map with four(??) AI could be challenging.

I think it depends on the starting positions and the size of the map.
In two of my games on challenging i had two AI right next to me. They declared war early on and i restarted the game.

 

[davidwalsh]

Some usefull advice here. Racial purity makes sense; and destroying non-racial cities.
I just got the game and have not played more than 20/30 turns or so into a game yet...restarting and learning....but already I see the AI is not great.
I met my first Warlock and watched his settler unit shuffle about turn after turn without founding a city.
I wonder is that because I had a unit close by?
Maybe if I pulled back and gave him space?

Have the developers said anything about improvong the AI?
Can it be modded?

So far I like the look and feel of the game.

 

[MsCabbage]

Well thanks again for all the input and taking everything into account I am going to set up a new game with the following to give a nice yummy challange

1. Impossilbe Difficulty
2. Zero Sum Cities
3. Racial Purity
4. World Type - Super Continent
5. World Size - Large
6. 3 Additional Worlds
7. Three oponents of races not used (will have to double up on a race if Elf DLC not used)

 

[korog]

I used to delcare war on everyone I meet the turn I met them. I never made peace with them either. To get max out of that, I played cylindrical large map with max AI-s and with Great Land setting (3-4 neighbours always).

 

[Mardagg]

I discovered in my SP games,that certain AI mages are much better at expanding vs indies than others:

-Rjakh seems to be always pretty good
-To a lesser extend Mirabellus and the dragon queen(due to AI using lots of elven archers) as well
-mixed results with the coatl queen,sometimes strong sometimes weak and empress and grand librarian

whereas

-all other monster mages,lich king and the rest of the human mages and amberon the dark basically always sit on just a few cities at turn 50 or so.

I think this has to do with the different personalities the developers gave each Mage ,starting perks and how the AI is able to play certain races(being really bad with arethi elves).
Of course it still depends on starting location and immidiate strength of indies.

I ve played vs rjakh like a dozen times and he always has been among the strongest if not the strongest AI opponent.

Having less water and only 3-4 ai opponents at max on large maps helps as well,since the ai seems to stop expanding once it is at war with you or other ai opponents.


I would advise settings as follows:

Large or XL map
Great land
max 2-4 portal worlds
3-4 ai opponents,with Rjakh+dragon queen+mirabellus+?
House rules
allying with one of the AI`s you meet and donating him spells/Mana/gold .You can as well cast unit buffs on AI`s btw....
One way map,not cylindrical,because AI needs time to expand without meeting others.

I played a game once with arethis and the house rule to not use Iril Bowmasters(iril bows i did use however)+ no mercs+racial purity+no spell buffs on my units.
That game was pretty interesting and among the more challenging ones.