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trogdor83

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Apologies in advance if this isn't workable (I'm not a modder):

I always see huge numbers of lowborn Kingsguards. Often 5 or 6 out of the 7. I would guess this is due to noble children being betrothed before they come of age, or typically marrying very soon after. But it's odd having a half-dozen Ser Whoever of House Nowhere guarding the King.

Is there any way to mod a restriction on Kingsguard appointments to either exclude lowborn characters or weigh against them?

thx!
 
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The Kingsguard isn't all about what house defends the king/queen, it's about the men who swear to do so. Look at the historical/lore Kingsguard, most of them are from minor houses/landless knights (Lord Commander Duncan the Tall).
 
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Duncan the Tall was the exception, not the rule. Most of the named Kingsguard are from major houses, just look at Aerys' kingsguard:

Oswell Whent (who's house owned Harrenhal)
Gerold Hightower (one of the richest houses in Westeros)
Jaime Lannister (ditto)
Lewyn Martell (ditto)
Arthur Dayne (the Sword of the Morning, from one of the oldest houses in Westeros)
Jonothor Darry (a major house in the Riverlands that has produced at least one other Kingsguard member)
Barristan Selmy is the only one from a "literally who" house, and even then it's a minor noble house from the marches, not a house of landed nights.

Edit: rereading the wiki, it would seem that House Selmy is a major house, not a minor one. Still, it's the least powerful of the houses that represent Aerys' Kingsguard.
 
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Don't conflate "minor house" with "lowborn." Just look @ the names of the Houses going backwards here... Lannister, Tyrell, Kettleblack, Swann, Trant, Blount, Oakhart (Tommen); Greenfield, Moore, Clegane, Selmy (Joffrey); Grandison, Darry, Dayne, Whent, Gaunt, Martell, Hightower (Aerys)...even if you go way back you find under Viserys I all these familiar names: Redwyne, Marbrand, Darklyn, Fell.. Criston Cole being lowborn (born to a steward) is a real exception. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Kingsguard

It's fine if it isn't possible to mod this, but let's not pretend it's canon to have 5 lowborns on the Kingsguard at once.

Edit: Ogarr you beat me to it.
 
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trogdor83 said:
It's fine if it isn't possible to mod this, but let's not pretend it's canon to have 5 lowborns on the Kingsguard at once.
...
Click to expand...

CK2 is an alternative history game. AGOT is alternative history game of a fictional fantasy universe.
A lot of things *MUST* be different than in books. You can play as Ned Stark, seduce Cersei, kill Jamie and Robert, become king and then get raped by Aztecs.

That said, it's should be fairly easy to force ai to pick "noble" kingsguard members more often than not.
 
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Definitely see quite a few more lowborn Kingsguard than nobles. I don't think it's because of how the AI chooses Kingsguard, however-- I think it's just that for some reason a large number of lowborns seem to spawn with the "skilled fighter" trait. I often get them asking to come to my court, at the least, resulting in some nice bodyguards.

Often in the current version second sons who could become kingsguard will die early due to disease, so you just get a lowborn Kingsguard from the large pool of spawned characters instead.
 
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There's more to it than just who the AI picks. I've gone through in previous games and actually had to select 5-6 candidates shortly after founding the Kingsguard before anyone even accepted the offer. You won't see many members of Great Houses in the Kingsguard simply because being high up in the line of succession makes a character less likely to accept your offer (I think they say something along the lines of "I'm afraid my duty to my family is more important"), lustful characters will often refuse because they can't give up their ways, and others will refuse and simply say "I never looked good in white". As a result, you're far more likely to have lowborn characters, members of really massive houses, or completely unlanded noble families in the Kingsguard.
 
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vukica said:
CK2 is an alternative history game. AGOT is alternative history game of a fictional fantasy universe.
A lot of things *MUST* be different than in books. You can play as Ned Stark, seduce Cersei, kill Jamie and Robert, become king and then get raped by Aztecs.

That said, it's should be fairly easy to force ai to pick "noble" kingsguard members more often than not.
Click to expand...
#

Even in an alternative history game - there are rules.
 
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Problem is caused by the fact that there are not enough knights from noble houses with good fighting skill which they obtain through education, while this lowborn knights are created randomly with good stats, so AI picks them to the Kingsguard instead of noble knights. To resolve this problem, it should be easier to obtain at least skilled fighter trait.
 
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Łajt said:
Problem is caused by the fact that there are not enough knights from noble houses with good fighting skill which they obtain through education, while this lowborn knights are created randomly with good stats, so AI picks them to the Kingsguard instead of noble knights. To resolve this problem, it should be easier to obtain at least skilled fighter trait.
Click to expand...
I disagree, to me it is the fact that all highborns are married off instantly. In canon Balon Swann, the second son of House Swann, stayed "single" till his mid-thirties where he joined the kingsguard. Barristan Selmy was a first son who didnt join till the age of 23. Ingame they and their children will be married off at the age of 16, if not before. That, to me, is the problem. All 5-10 of the formidable level fighters are married off, as are most of the skilled fighters
 
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That is true too, I think that apart from my solution another one would be to add "join kingsguard" ambition, so character with that would be unable to marry. This ambition should be prefered by characters who are far in line of succesion and have good fighting skill. But to heirs too in special circumstances, so their father would be angry (Tywin and Jamie).
 
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nick5837 said:
I disagree, to me it is the fact that all highborns are married off instantly. In canon Balon Swann, the second son of House Swann, stayed "single" till his mid-thirties where he joined the kingsguard. Barristan Selmy was a first son who didnt join till the age of 23. Ingame they and their children will be married off at the age of 16, if not before. That, to me, is the problem. All 5-10 of the formidable level fighters are married off, as are most of the skilled fighters
Click to expand...

It's the game mechanics that are working against this mod. There are so much lowborn Kingsguard because the head of a landed dynasty is hardcoded to continue the dynasty, so marrying off all the sons and daughters. Lowborns who are spawned with good martial traits aren't affected by this. I think Łajt's idea is a pretty good one. Incorporate the become Kingsguard ambition submod and alter it so the person having the ambition has a negative marriage opinion that would make marrying impossible until the ambition is changed.
 
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