If anything, you could follow the Saharan model: long stretches of land linking only 2 provinces together representing caravan trails through oases
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
That would be a path to follow. Alternatively, the empty quarter could remain empty and the new provinces could be near the coastal zone-
This looks quite nice: a "hinterland" for the coastal areas. Quite logical and immersive. Now you could just add a 2-province stretch linking the North and South to represent a possible "caravan trail shortcut" through oases, which would have certainly developed... and you would have the best of the two worlds.
That would be a path to follow. Alternatively, the empty quarter could remain empty and the new provinces could be near the coastal zone-
More provinces in Saba!
Other than that, it looks good with a couple small smoothing issues (making the Empty Quarter more oval-shaped).
Made this really quickly (added 1 province in Oman, rest in Yemen):
Added a couple more that could be potential provinces in Yemen, 1 in Nejd and 2 in Oman as well:
One more in Hadhramaut:
In regards to caravan routes, I found this interesting tidbit on a lost city, which we could definitely implement somehow...
Maybe like this?
Last edited:
This is probably a silly question, but looking at the map on the dev version, several places are...owned by people who shouldn't own them, and other places lack characters that have had characters in the past. I suppose I am missing something?
In regards to caravan routes, I found this interesting tidbit on a lost city, which we could definitely implement somehow...
Maybe like this?
This last one looks nice, but I'd like to hear Futuregary's opinion first before doing any change to the actual setup. Keep in mind that we may need to leave out some of the provinces though, since our map's Arabia is a bit more stretched than this, and also not to overcrowd the region with provinces.
Where did you place your SVN folder? at "Documents/Paradox Interactive/Crusader Kings II/mods" or at the CK2 folder itself? If you did the latter, that's why it's showing up like that.
When do you suppose this version will be released in the main thread? I know given all of the edits and bug-hunting, you're not done.
Gotta nix the Empty Quarter. I was gonna put provinces there originally but got talked out of it for the same reason; there aren't even really enough people there today to justify even one county with multiple baronies, really. When researching possible sites (other than temporary caravan stops, those don't count), all I could find was a legendary pre-Islamic city that may or may not have never existed.
EDIT: Definitely not enough reason for multiple "passage" provinces as in the Sahara. Probably weren't even trade routes in the area (aside from nomads), and if there were, it's like 100% safer and faster to sail around.
That being aside, I like the breakdown into smaller provinces. More have been needed in the area. I would say (for reasons of population) that internal provinces should be a bit bigger. Saba was indeed very important, and that's enough reason for something like this, but population is population, and if the barony balance is going to be good then some of them might need to be increased in size or merged. The ones in the northern part probably aren't too unrealistic, since that part was (and is) more populated.
I have an idea of how this map (and other changes, including Camara's hypothetical map rework) can be merged with the others, but as I said before, I'd rather wait until we've got all the input in so it can be done in one go (numerical sequences aside, it's going to be a pain in the ass for everyone, especially Numahr, if we're updating the province structure every couple days/weeks).
Jerusalem owning parts of Turkey, Tuscany owning a portion of Denmark. Sindhia is split in half by some random OPM emirate.
And that you created the checkout folder in an empty folder/copied the checkout folder into an empty mod/Lux Invicta folder?
out of random curiosity, are we really adding/tweaking all those province to the Arabian peninsula? I mean, more provinces is always nice, but we always run at a risk of accidentally disregarding Shaytana-established lore, which we should preserve as much as possible :laugh:
still, that said, if possible, I think it would be best if we didn't edit the subversion map files directly right away, as it's relatively easy to lose track of what's getting tweaked (I mean... I still think the massive retinue boost I gave the SPQR for debugging purposes is probably still there... or not, if someone accidentally removed it thinking it was a bug [well, technically if it wasn't removed before release, it WOULD be one hahaha] ) , especially since SVN logs/notes are rarely done and one usually ends up wading through the subforums to contextualize the changes
still, that said, if possible, I think it would be best if we didn't edit the subversion map files directly right away, as it's relatively easy to lose track of what's getting tweaked (I mean... I still think the massive retinue boost I gave the SPQR for debugging purposes is probably still there... or not, if someone accidentally removed it thinking it was a bug [well, technically if it wasn't removed before release, it WOULD be one hahaha] ) , especially since SVN logs/notes are rarely done and one usually ends up wading through the subforums to contextualize the changes
We certainly do need more documentation on the SVN. Commenting on every file is tedious, and isn't really necessary for small tweaks and typo fixes, but I would encourage it for major changes, such as the addition of entire events, characters, titles, etc., rather than just a little tweaking here and there.
Back to Arabia.
I did a little tweaking and came up with this:
(background makes it a bit easier to see the edges)
I rounded the Empty Quarter out completely, as I did in this map, because when you think about it (aside from modern-day, where borders are expected to be defined) the barrier doesn't serve so much as a defined border as much as it serves as an oval of demarcation. It's not there because the borders defined it there, it's there because people don't go much further than that on account of dying being a likelihood.
I like how the focus in this proposition is more emphasis along coastal areas, especially Yemen. It's likely that these would actually be quite populous, despite the proximity of such a harsh environment, because of the flourishing trade and societies in the region.
I merged a couple provinces in the north (unless there was a specific idea behind it).
Back to Arabia.
I did a little tweaking and came up with this:
(background makes it a bit easier to see the edges)
I rounded the Empty Quarter out completely, as I did in this map, because when you think about it (aside from modern-day, where borders are expected to be defined) the barrier doesn't serve so much as a defined border as much as it serves as an oval of demarcation. It's not there because the borders defined it there, it's there because people don't go much further than that on account of dying being a likelihood.
I like how the focus in this proposition is more emphasis along coastal areas, especially Yemen. It's likely that these would actually be quite populous, despite the proximity of such a harsh environment, because of the flourishing trade and societies in the region.
I merged a couple provinces in the north (unless there was a specific idea behind it).
This map revision will make Saba truly shine... which can be only good. A Saba being a real contender against Muslim Arabia is both in line with Shaytana''s vision, and a good thing in itself for gameplay...
I may have asked this before, but where does the Sethian dynasty in Ascalon come from? Assuming Shaytana never said anything regarding their origins, I plan to make them either descendants of the Ghassanids, a tribe of Israel, or some other Semitic tribe.
Glad we found a solution to the Arabian question. Indeed metropolitan Southern Arabia needed much more provinces around!
To my knowledge he didn't say anything about them, If I had to guess, it's just a "generic" dynasty based around the fact that they're Sethian (Shatyun?). Unless Shatana meant Shati which according to a very fast internet dictionary search, apparently means "beach", appropriate since they're coastal (the only thing Google gave me related to Shatyun is "Al Shatyun", which apparently means "beach camp", a refugee camp in Gaza), in any case , Ghassanid descendants would be a cool thing, so I support that one.
Completely unrelated to any of the above, while I was looking through some Indo-Greek Bactrian coins, I stumbled upon one where the ruler wore an elephant's scalp as headdress. While this may have been a metaphor for the rule of India to the Greeks, rather than an actual headpiece, I took that crazy idea and ran with it. Now the Megas Basileus of India wears a bronze crown shaped like an elephant's scalp.
To my knowledge he didn't say anything about them, If I had to guess, it's just a "generic" dynasty based around the fact that they're Sethian (Shatyun?). Unless Shatana meant Shati which according to a very fast internet dictionary search, apparently means "beach", appropriate since they're coastal (the only thing Google gave me related to Shatyun is "Al Shatyun", which apparently means "beach camp", a refugee camp in Gaza), in any case , Ghassanid descendants would be a cool thing, so I support that one.
Completely unrelated to any of the above, while I was looking through some Indo-Greek Bactrian coins, I stumbled upon one where the ruler wore an elephant's scalp as headdress. While this may have been a metaphor for the rule of India to the Greeks, rather than an actual headpiece, I took that crazy idea and ran with it. Now the Megas Basileus of India wears a bronze crown shaped like an elephant's scalp.
I'd say go for it (ghassanid Sethians)
While you are at it, I have a suggestion. Maybe you can use your family links to create alliance opportunities between all the endangered small realms of diverse, obscure religions?
While you are at it, I have a suggestion. Maybe you can use your family links to create alliance opportunities between all the endangered small realms of diverse, obscure religions?
Already sort of having an effect. More than once I've seen Neapolis come to the aid of Erythrea Adalia, sometimes they end up in control of it at a later point (I don't even know how that happened, via conquest, reconquest from Azania, or inheritance). This is the only example I've seen so far, but I imagine such links will no doubt provide other alliance opportunities.
While we're discussing this, though, there were countless examples in the timeline of sisters and children being married over to generals of the opposing side during peace talks. While this does add for a unique flavor and creative plot development, I very strongly doubt those were the bounds of his intentions with those references. It's quite likely that he intended to have an intricate web of alliances between certain dynasties based on timeline references. Granted, some of them were so long ago that they're basically null and void, but not all of them have to be; especially if we've got the characters involved already coded in :3
Also, yeah, Ghassanids be good candidates, as long as they don't appear elsewhere.