Machine Intelligence +1 Mech Pop Assembly -- problems figuring out my assembly.

[Drachasor]

It's been a long time since I've played and the 4.0 UI isn't making it easier to understand how this is getting factored in. Is this just +1 per colony no matter what? Does it affect jobs? Is it flat per planet and affected by efficiency bonuses in some way? (my math seems to indicate the latter might be the case).

Also, does anyone know why there's a discrepancy between machine intelligence replicators vs individualist roboticists and why one produced more pop assembly? (1 vs 2).

I've got a planet in a game with 500 replicators, but workforce makes it 1079. Arrow on the job says they make 1.5 assembly each month. Total 16.19. Ok. But total expected pop assembly for them next month is 28.66. I do not know where this number is coming from. I do have bonus +24% or so resources from jobs but I don't think that affects this. Since it's a "modifier", the job output doesn't list where the 16.19 comes from, but it's 1.5*1079, so that's straightforward at least. Maybe it isn't factoring in everything it should.

But, if I presume I get +1 from Machine Intelligence, that's 2.5 assembly, and we get 26.97 assembled each month. But that's not 28.66 either. And +24% to 26.9 would be much higher than 28.66. But if it's added after base assembly, then I'd have 17.19, and +24% there doesn't get close to 28.66. I'm confused.

Hmm, wait,
I've got pop assembly bonuses, +25% (one from tradition, one from species)
Logistic drones and sciecne drones are getting +5% efficiency loop, +24.37% machine capital, +5% resource processing algorithms, +5% peak performance, +10% work optimization unit III, and +27% high stability. So that totals to +1.76367 -- none of this is listed under replicators because nothing is listed for output modification

Now, if I multiply 16.19*1.7637 when I get 28.554303, very close to the answer. But that's not taking into account pop assembly speed, so that's not good. Additive or multiplicative adjustment for assembly speed (I assume multiplicative) would not make this math work. Also, where does the +1 from Machine Intelligence get factored in? It would also be nice if when it does name bonuses and what they are called, it said where they came from. Wait, is the +1 for machine intelligence possibly not adjusted for the 4.0 system, so it's basically nothing?

Btw, growth/assembly adjustments to number of pops in this game is 0, because I hate it, so it isn't a factor. Under management, it just gives me the straight 28.66 number without any explanation.

I also noticed another UI issue where it says each replicator produces .02 assembly, but it's clearly rounding there. However, that rounding is really bad because it would make someone think a 1.5 is 2. Should be listed in values per 100, probably.


So when people talk about the UI being cumbersome (I have to look in multiple places to figure out my assembly and even then the math ain't mathing). This should be easy and simple. It's just the pop growth!

Edit: Of course, all that is assuming it's giving me the right value for assembly. Maybe the number it gives doesn't factor in assembly speed at all, though it is under a particular robot species, so it should.

Edit2: Sorry if this was a bit of a journey. I knew it wasn't adding up but was doing additional checking as I wrote it so I looked at other factors partway through and it still wasn't working for me. I assume I'm overlooking something, but maybe not.

 

[Sarawen]

I'm pretty sure that before 3.12, machine intelligence replicators always provided two 1-assembly jobs per building, while individualist roboticists only provided one 2-assembly job. But after 3.12, this was broken, especially the fallen building, which provided the same number of different jobs.
Considering that in the initial version of 4.0, Machine World provided individualist roboticists, and after fixing the job bug, it did not provide twice as many replicators, and even reduced the number of replicators by half. I suspect that paradox just forgot that MI's assembly output is less.

 

[Drachasor]

O

I'm pretty sure that before 3.12, machine intelligence replicators always provided two 1-assembly jobs per building, while individualist roboticists only provided one 2-assembly job. But after 3.12, this was broken, especially the fallen building, which provided the same number of different jobs.
Considering that in the initial version of 4.0, Machine World provided individualist roboticists, and after fixing the job bug, it did not provide twice as many replicators, and even reduced the number of replicators by half. I suspect that paradox just forgot that MI's assembly output is less.

Thanks for that background. That makes a lot of sense. I just need to figure out how they got to the expected number for the next month now.

 

[Exasperation]

Try mousing over the population change on one of your pop groups for a better breakdown of assembly speed, like so:

 

[Drachasor]

Try mousing over the population change on one of your pop groups for a better breakdown of assembly speed, like so:
View attachment 1329403

Where's that?

 

[Exasperation]

Where's that?

The "management" tab of the planet viewer. It looks a little different due to UIOD, but the information should be the same in vanilla.
Here's the location in the vanilla planet view:

 

[Drachasor]

Thanks for the help! Hmm, how does that get to 28.66?

18.19 * 1.52 = 27.6488. But I guess that means Machine Intelligence doesn't get workforce benefits nor does synthetic? I mean, that seems really weird. It doesn't matter how much replicating you are doing, they both just add 1 to the base? So, not great that it doesn't seem to math right.

Also, this is incredibly bad UI. This is not how tooltips should be used at all. Tons of design guidelines explicitly say not to do this kind of dense information delivery. Just ugh. I'll admit that I keep forgetting that they do this (I am not sure when they started doing this, maybe I just didn't notice during 2.x and earlier). They have tons of window real-estate for information and logical places for that information and then they put it on a damn tooltip. It's insane.*

And I understand and appreciate they might be concerned about information overload, but a cumbersome and counterintuitive UI where you have to randomly mouse over things for information doesn't fix that. You'd probably want different settings for how much information density or design it so that you can minimize it. Which they half do except it doesn't have growth information. It almost makes it worse when they tell you to click for more information elsewhere and then randomly clicking doesn't give you the information here on a section where growth is a prominent part of the UI.

 

[Exasperation]

Thanks for the help! Hmm, how does that get to 28.66?

18.19 * 1.52 = 27.6488. But I guess that means Machine Intelligence doesn't get workforce benefits nor does synthetic? I mean, that seems really weird. It doesn't matter how much replicating you are doing, they both just add 1 to the base? So, not great that it doesn't seem to math right.

Also, this is incredibly bad UI. This is not how tooltips should be used at all. Tons of design guidelines explicitly say not to do this kind of dense information delivery. Just ugh. I'll admit that I keep forgetting that they do this (I am not sure when they started doing this, maybe I just didn't notice during 2.x and earlier). They have tons of window real-estate for information and logical places for that information and then they put it on a damn tooltip. It's insane.*

And I understand and appreciate they might be concerned about information overload, but a cumbersome and counterintuitive UI where you have to randomly mouse over things for information doesn't fix that. You'd probably want different settings for how much information density or design it so that you can minimize it. Which they half do except it doesn't have growth information. It almost makes it worse when they tell you to click for more information elsewhere and then randomly clicking doesn't give you the information here on a section where growth is a prominent part of the UI.

You can't tell from looking at it here, but Mass-Produced is a different type of modifier than the other two. It's species specific, while the others are empire-wide. As a result, the math works out to (1+1+16.19)*(1+0.15)*(1+0.1+0.27)=28.658. If you had another species specific bonus (say, +20% from Monoform), it would be like this: (1+1+16.19)*(1+0.15+0.2)*(1+0.1+0.27). The +1s may be small bonuses, but they have the advantage of being passive: you don't need pops working jobs (and the alloy upkeep that goes along with it), you get it immediately as soon as you colonize a planet, for free. They're more impactful early-game (see the day 1 screenshots I posted above, where that +1 represents a full quarter of the total assembly).

And if you're looking for someone who will defend the UI, you'll have to look elsewhere.

 

[Drachasor]

You can't tell from looking at it here, but Mass-Produced is a different type of modifier than the other two. It's species specific, while the others are empire-wide. As a result, the math works out to (1+1+16.19)*(1+0.15)*(1+0.1+0.27)=28.658. If you had another species specific bonus (say, +20% from Monoform), it would be like this: (1+1+16.19)*(1+0.15+0.2)*(1+0.1+0.27). The +1s may be small bonuses, but they have the advantage of being passive: you don't need pops working jobs (and the alloy upkeep that goes along with it), you get it immediately as soon as you colonize a planet, for free. They're more impactful early-game (see the day 1 screenshots I posted above, where that +1 represents a full quarter of the total assembly).

And if you're looking for someone who will defend the UI, you'll have to look elsewhere.

Thanks and I just wanted to rant about it, tbh. It wasn't about you.