Maghreb

[Incompetent]

Definitions vary, but for the purposes of Abe, we can say the Maghreb is North Africa minus Egypt. No majors here at the moment, but an interesting battleground nonetheless. Here's a quick run-down:

Morocco: decent regional power, can do quite well further south. But what relations could/should it have with Cordoba? Do we want to keep the door open on the Moroccan inheritance?

Algiers: Hmm. I was under the impression that Algiers only rose to prominence after the explusion of the Moors from Iberia. Tlemcen would be a better choice IMO.

Cyrenaica: Poor, small state that gets eaten by Egypt. Well, it gives Egypt something to do early on.

Tunis, Tripolitania: little countries, sometimes they kill each other, sometimes they get killed by outsiders, but they always seem to create a lot of bad blood and make the AI go a little crazy in the region. I suggest giving Tunis to Tlemcen; don't know about Tripolitania. Perhaps that could go to Tlemcen as well, but Tlemcen could have trouble exercising its authority (as it did historically over many cities it theoretically controlled, especially Algiers). This could make an interesting background to any Pirate wars: does the sultan of Tlemcen fight the pirates to reduce tensions with the Italians, or does he tolerate/support them so that he can retain some control over them?

 

[yourworstnightm]

suggestion: Cyrenaica: small state, egyptian breakfast
Tunisia: Tunisia+ kabylia+ tripolitania (medium state)
Tlemcen: Instead of Algiers
Morocco: Friendly towards Cordoba, possible cordoban inheritance.

 

[unmerged(30761)]

most are annexed by cordoba, egypt including

 

[yourworstnightm]

Maybe egypt should start expanding a little bit earlier, the Kaliphate and Cordoba has become big empires when egypt is fighting an civil war none of the factions is able to win.

 

[unmerged(31994)]

I still think Tunis should be allowed to rise to prominance and become Sicily´s #1 enemy.If the Sultan loses in his gamble, and faces invasion from Sicily, he could plea for help from Cordobe or the Caliphate.Either way, North Africa deserves better.

 

[unmerged(30761)]

Calipah, seriously, beyond the initial 50 years, how many major powers usually occupy that thin strip of worthless sand that is north africa?

it is usually Cordoba, Egypt or Kaliphate. to deprive them of all this sand and 1 person per square mile is not worth the effort.

Whatever grows up in tunisia and mauretani has arabic culture, or berber, so either one of these 2 large states allways eye them for that extra bit of manpower.

 

[unmerged(31994)]

I am being serious, there is an idea I want to build on, the Caliphate of Sfaxis.If given the chance to grow, perhaps through intial changes, and some events, it could become a decent power.

 

[MattyG]

More layers, more richness, love it, love it, love it!

 

[unmerged(23409)]

But then what the hell do we do with Sicilly?

 

[MattyG]

Sicily will have two alternate paths, as discussed in that thread. If they go for the North African route - and are successful - then this new country will not emerge. Too bad, Sicily beat you. But if Sicily choses to cooperate with Cordoba or gets whooped by genoa or beaten by the muslims, then this place could make it.

 

[yourworstnightm]

I am being serious, there is an idea I want to build on, the Caliphate of Sfaxis.If given the chance to grow, perhaps through intial changes, and some events, it could become a decent power.

And become another obstacle in the path of Egypt, I think egypt is quite dead if another islamic power rise on their doorsteps (remind me to conquer all tunisia next time i play Egypt)

 

[unmerged(31994)]

Well no not really, I think egypt should concentrate going south to Nubia, to Somalia and then to Zanj.

As for North Africa, I was thinking of something like this :

1. War between the North Africans and Sicily, Arabs and berbers beseech Egypt, Caliphate and Cordoba to save them, none will come to their aid (where the a choice for the ai is mostly not sending anything and the b choice to interfere).The muslims of North Africa will find themselves isolated and alone, and thus declare the Hafsid Sultan as the new Caliph under their Bayha (recognition in Islam).The Hafsids will have a small ' We are the Caliphate of Sfaxis ) event to gain some troops, a Jihad trigger and some other things, with the mission to keep almost all of Algeria, Tunis and tripoli safe from Christian hands for lets say 30 to 50 years.

2. If they do succede and perhaps even capture some specific lands like tripoli, Kabylia, Aldzayer, Orania and the berber provinces, they would have an event 'Our legitamacy is secured!' and would gain some vicotry points.

3. Think of Byzantium AGCEEP, where you had revival events.My main ideas are to make North Africa a haven for pirates, thinkers and merchants.giving them a shipyard event and so forth.Later on, if they survive and establish themselves, I will give them an event to conquer Malta, and if succesful, to Sicily.The Sicilians will be granted some events to fight back.I think the Caliphate of Sfaxis could be dynamic, especially if they become Mutazalites.

 

[yourworstnightm]

In the egyptian civil war one faction will cincentrate on southern expansion and one on western (which is really stupid since they should cóncentrate on crushing each other for a start). Anyway if the western expansion faction win (which storywise have family connections with the fatimides and declare themselves their successors) they will try to expand west. And here they will have to meet the Tunisians.

 

[unmerged(31994)]

Which makes the situation even more intresting.I would have to say, there are many possibilities open with this country.Perhaps the Fatamids could orchestrate a rebellion and a murder of the Hafsid Sultan, thereby igniting a civil war?

May I also suggest a small province tax raise in North Africa too?

 

[unmerged(31994)]

By the way, may I suggest something?

Moorish culture dosent suffice to the Maghreb, I suggest turning it into Maghrebi, whilst al-Andalus would have andalusi as a culture.

If the christian iberian provinces convert, they become andalusi.

 

[Incompetent]

By the way, may I suggest something?

Moorish culture dosent suffice to the Maghreb, I suggest turning it into Maghrebi, whilst al-Andalus would have andalusi as a culture.

If the christian iberian provinces convert, they become andalusi.

Fine by me, though changing the culture of Iberians like that would need a set of events. Also, do we need to divide maghrebi and andalusi culture?

Further thoughts on the Italy vs North Africa conflict:

We can have the middle part of North Africa ruled by the Sultanate of Tlemcen. But the Sultan's grip on his land is weak, and his officials have arrived at an unofficial arrangement (in some cases secured by bribery) which means the port cities get to do more or less what they like, as long as they remain loyal to the Sultan in times of war. The ports continue to push the limits of what they can do, and Tlemcen gets events every so often (triggered by low stab) which weaken the central government further unless the Sultan decides to take a stand. If he caves in enough, cities like Algiers, Tunis and Tripoli will flake away completely.

Before getting cores and all, the Italians present an ultimatum to the Sultan, telling him to stop the piracy; but the terms of the ultimatum are severe enough that they'd significantly hurt trade through the ports as well. The Sultan now has a difficult decision to make. His options are:
A angrily reject the demands: this causes his people to rally round him, but will probably lead to war with the Italians. When war comes, the event sequence you mentioned happens. If Tlemcen is victorious, it reinvents itself as the Caliphate of Sfaxis, and gets no more trouble from the ports, but failure versus the Italians will cause the old problems to return, and the Sultanate's troubles will hasten the conquest of the region by Sicily.
B accept the ultimatum and crack down on the 'pirate' ports: this ends the Italian event series. But Tlemcen is now wracked by revolts, as the angered cities decide to finally make a bid for full independence. Tlemcen also loses some trade investment and vp. On the plus side, this kills all the 'weakening of central government' events. Tlemcen may well get an opportunity to fight back against the Italians later, though.
C plead to the Italians that the matter is beyond his power: this allows Tlemcen to avoid both the war and the revolts for the moment. However, it leads to -CENT, and fails to placate the Italians completely. When the Italians come knocking again, there'll be a repeat of this event, only there'll be no more stalling, and the ports will be even less cooperative.

Tlemcen/Sfaxis getting Malta is a good idea - in fact, they could get a core on it as soon as the Jihad is declared, as taking Malta can be justified as essential to defending the realm against the Christian aggressors. Malta could also get converted in culture and religion, in the same manner that the Baleares do if Italians conquer them. Cores on Sicily should be somewhat harder to obtain, though, as it's the home of a major power, and by the time the Muslims get there, it's clear that they're the ones on the attack.

@yourworstnightm: perhaps a strong Tlemcen/Sfaxis will get involved in the Egyptian civil war, supporting the faction that wants to expand southwards

 

[TheArchduke]

But then what the hell do we do with Sicilly?

Well, basically the premise of Aberration is to avoid having any nation which "has" to achieve dominance for a fullfilling game. For example Savoy should be fun to play and a good long term power, but nobody should really miss it when it is gone.

On the Magreb issue, I played with it, but with the Mamelucks, Caliphate and Granada having an oppurtunity to become a big player, the Maghreb has yet to fit in the picture..

 

[unmerged(31994)]

Fine by me, though changing the culture of Iberians like that would need a set of events. Also, do we need to divide maghrebi and andalusi culture?

It is very important to divide them in my humble opinion.Maghrebi didnt have much to resemble the splendor and richness of al-Andalus, though both shared many characteristics.Andalusi culture was by far more superior and hedonistic, not to mention, Andalusi was a mix of arabic, berberi, and Iberian culture.

The Maghrib did not have the same.Andalusi should begin small, but when say a province converts in Iberia, they turn to andalusi, representing a return to older traditions (which existed in such cities).Zaragoza, Valencia, Castile, Badajoz, Tago, Algarve should turn to andalusi, maybe even Tangeirs.We leave Oporto, Leon, Galacia, Austrias, and Cantabria as iberian, representing their pride of their own cultural independence.

As for the Sultanate of the Tlemscen sequence, its fabulous!Though for now I have to work on the Mutazelites and redoing the enlightment events for CAL :wacko: maybe you should work on it, and I will chip in

Though, have you considered the expulsion of the Muslims from Sicily as a viable option?though the ultimatium idea is great.

EDIT: For the sake of continuaty, Genoa and Sicily's events to fight off the Moorish pirates should be based on an event by the Sultanate of Tlemscen itself, that is to say an event where the Sultanate funds the pirates officially.

 

[Incompetent]

EDIT: For the sake of continuaty, Genoa and Sicily's events to fight off the Moorish pirates should be based on an event by the Sultanate of Tlemscen itself, that is to say an event where the Sultanate funds the pirates officially.

Why does the Sultanate need to fund the pirates? I'd have thought piracy in itself is lucrative enough to go on if the government simply turns a blind eye to it. We could give the Sultan an early event where he gets to combat the pirates before the Italians start knocking at the door, though it would be a B choice to take them on due to the weakness of the Sultan's position. The A choice would be 'who cares if a few Christian ships get plundered?' or something like that.

Another idea: if the Sultan takes on the pirates and things go wrong, his corrupt ministers could conspire to depose him, replacing him with a new pro-pirate ruler. That ruler might well officially support the pirates, but would lack the legitimacy to declare himself Caliph later.

I'll see what I can get done on the Italian side of things for now.

 

[unmerged(31994)]

We await your work!