Magna Mundi: Rome Project Event Concepts

[vanin]

On laws I thought of a system from the SPQR mod (or perhaps it was in Rome Enhanced?) wich added citizenship levels. One thing the Greek cities always tended to strive for was liberty and to be free of foreign powers meddling in their affairs. To me, it would be great to reflect this struggle with that system in mind, while also utilizing the laws. Perhaps similar stuff for Rome with their Latin and other Italic allied cities? Either way:

"Greek Freedom and Autonomy" - This law should result in lowered revolt risk in all Greek provinces and loyalty gain with all Greek characters. Furthermore, it should result in a slight manpower gain, but also negative defensive and less income. Relations with Greek countries could improve a little.

"Garrisons in Greek cities" - This law should trigger a few positive modifiers, such as higher tax income and increased defensive value of the Greek cities. However, the loyalty of all Greek characters in your kingdom should decrease over time, ruler popularity decrease slightly, and the revolt risk in Greek provinces should rise. Relations with Greek countries could decrease a little.

These two laws can only be proclaimed if you control a province in Greece proper, but these modifiers should also apply to Greek provinces outside Greece that you control. Could something like that work?

 

[TheLoneGunman]

Wouldn't it be possible to give the AI a set of titles tha tonly it would have access to as Rome so that it would be able to function properly?

A big improvement to the game would be to reduce the chances of Characters in a Republic requesting certain titles that are hard to get.

When you have 8 or 9 guys that want to be Pontifex Maximus or Flamien Dialis (if you're playing Cursus Honorum!) and the current one is expected to hold the position for life, it will do wonders for the Populists!

 

[Ixtli613]

One thing someone mentioned somewhere else on the forum that I thought was a great idea: the ability to create a CB, through propaganda or something along those lines. Maybe it could be an intrigue action, and if it succeeds other countries and your own people believe your claims, giving you a CB. If it fails, it could give you lots of BB.

 

[TheLoneGunman]

Decisions to allow countries to lay claim to cores would be nice also, as well as allow for some good CBs for both AI and human players.

A lot of the problems between Carthage and Rome revolved around who they thought that land really belonged to.

 

[Van Diemen]

I was hoping to use RIMP as a basis for this, yes. I'd hate to just dump it in the hands of the RIMP guys and tell them to do it, though, so my vote would be to get the whole team working on the map at first before attempting anything else.

Modding the map yourself really isn't advisable as it really takes a lot of time and team "morale", furthermore you cannot extend the map to the size you want (to include India). It's impossible, because the game engine can only support files until a certain maximum size (it makes you and us sad, I know).

We are already working to expand the map in several directions and have done so already. The work is still far from finished, but I'm sure you will all like it. With a little luck we might have finished it in the next couple of months, so I would advice you to wait with the map and start modding non-map related things first, such as law, decisions and events. After that making your mod RIMP map compatible for your project will give you all that is required and possible within the boundaries of this game.

If there is anything we can help to add to the map (if you have a good suggestion of course) then we can always decide to implement it. Just send me a PM or post it in the RIMP thread.

 

[unmerged(59077)]

Modding the map yourself really isn't advisable as it really takes a lot of time and team "morale", furthermore you cannot extend the map to the size you want (to include India). It's impossible, because the game engine can only support files until a certain maximum size (it makes you and us sad, I know).

So how does that work? There's a limit on how big a map can be, or how big individual provinces can be?

 

[Van Diemen]

So how does that work? There's a limit on how big a map can be, or how big individual provinces can be?

Actually both, there is a total map size limit (bound to the provinces.bmp and other map related files) and individual province size limit. Furthermore you cannot make too small provinces as those become unmanageable with armies for the player. It's really sad that these limits are caused by the game engine.

 

[GLENN]

Wouldn't it be possible to give the AI a set of titles tha tonly it would have access to as Rome so that it would be able to function properly?

A big improvement to the game would be to reduce the chances of Characters in a Republic requesting certain titles that are hard to get.

When you have 8 or 9 guys that want to be Pontifex Maximus or Flamien Dialis (if you're playing Cursus Honorum!) and the current one is expected to hold the position for life, it will do wonders for the Populists!

I just switch the characters out or never give it to them.
(Funny thing in my game 4 populists want Flamen Dialis besides the one in the other factions)

Cheexsta said he was going to tone down the Cursus Honorum

I think it changes the game a little too much. Changes the dynamics from the base game to nothing but character management.

Maybe if we toned down the 20 women to 10 women. Less sons that grow up and want an objective.

 

[TheLoneGunman]

Well it is possible to edit the chances of characters requesting certain titles, and even the requirements to get such a request.

It's just gonna take some fooling around and testing, and then hopefully it will curb the massive Populist Uprisings Rome sees every 10-20 years in-game.

 

[Evans]

"Greek Freedom and Autonomy" - This law should result in lowered revolt risk in all Greek provinces and loyalty gain with all Greek characters. Furthermore, it should result in a slight manpower gain, but also negative defensive and less income. Relations with Greek countries could improve a little.

Hmm, according to Machiavelli at least, Rome had to destroy the Greek cities to prevent them rebelling in the name of ancient liberties and freedoms. Preserving their cultural identity, history of autonomy and liberty and preserving their power seems a bad way to deal with these cities' desire to break free. If they are preserved, they will surely try and shake off your control, so why the bonus to revolt risk? Surely to keep them under your control in the long term, you'd want to destroy their affinity with their own polis, their traditional cultural ties, traditions and customs (e.g. legal, religious) and replace them with ties to your own? I.e. undermine their independent religious identity by associating local customs closely with your own, replacing their legal system etc. Sure it will bring resentment in the short-term, but that's why you garrison the place until they come to see your authority as the legitimate one.

 

[vanin]

Ah, I mainly referred to the fact that the Romans, when they conquered Magna Graecia, let the Greeks keep their ways, to some extent atleast. This is something I caught up from somewhere, so prehaps it's totally wrong.
On the other hand, the Macedonian and some times Ptolemaic rulers adopted the "Freedom and Autonomy" thingy; so limiting it to the successor- and Greek states would probably fit better.

 

[gnosticdogma]

When you have 8 or 9 guys that want to be Pontifex Maximus or Flamien Dialis (if you're playing Cursus Honorum!) and the current one is expected to hold the position for life, it will do wonders for the Populists!

I dunno what version of CH you're using, but in the last few, the factor for objective for Pontifex Maximus was set to 25 (typical = 100), and there has never been an objective for Flamen Dialis. Even if a character wants to be Pontifex Maximus, there is no reason why you cannot give him another title to hold him over until the position becomes available. As long as he is employed, he will not turn populist.

I do not mind if a few characters want Pontifex Maximus, because that seems realistic to me. What could probably be done instead is to add rivalry events for characters who have desired a position for a long time.

And I could add a "Remove Pontifex Maximus" title.

 

[GLENN]

Hmm, according to Machiavelli at least, Rome had to destroy the Greek cities to prevent them rebelling in the name of ancient liberties and freedoms. Preserving their cultural identity, history of autonomy and liberty and preserving their power seems a bad way to deal with these cities' desire to break free. If they are preserved, they will surely try and shake off your control, so why the bonus to revolt risk? Surely to keep them under your control in the long term, you'd want to destroy their affinity with their own polis, their traditional cultural ties, traditions and customs (e.g. legal, religious) and replace them with ties to your own? I.e. undermine their independent religious identity by associating local customs closely with your own, replacing their legal system etc. Sure it will bring resentment in the short-term, but that's why you garrison the place until they come to see your authority as the legitimate one.

I took Vannin's request as new laws for Sparta when you play them.
His laws would only be for that country.

Your suggestions for conquering the Greeks is what I do to stop the frequency of revolts. Take Sparta first and then convert them with Governor.

 

[Evans]

Ah, I mainly referred to the fact that the Romans, when they conquered Magna Graecia, let the Greeks keep their ways, to some extent atleast. This is something I caught up from somewhere, so prehaps it's totally wrong.
On the other hand, the Macedonian and some times Ptolemaic rulers adopted the "Freedom and Autonomy" thingy; so limiting it to the successor- and Greek states would probably fit better.

Sounds like a kind of tributary system? I.e. you set up government through a puppet ruler who owes you alleigence, but leave culture and institutions intact? However I also read last night that the Romans made little effort to Romanise Sicily either - ol' Machiavelli picks and chooses his examples as he needs them!

Anyway I do think that provinces need some greater representation concerning the local situation - perhaps flag and event driven? So you could find some areas just refuse to submit even if you try to play nicely with them. Reminds me of William the Conqueror being forced to execute rebellious Saxon lords who just kept revolting against him, even after he pardoned them the first time.

 

[Evans]

I would advice you to wait with the map and start modding non-map related things first, such as law, decisions and events. After that making your mod RIMP map compatible for your project will give you all that is required and possible within the boundaries of this game.

If there is anything we can help to add to the map (if you have a good suggestion of course) then we can always decide to implement it. Just send me a PM or post it in the RIMP thread.

I would endorse this entirely - you could also get involved with the map making so you can have a degree of control over it too IMHO making an accurate and balanced map is the first most important task to enabling Rome become a game that is worthy of playing. After that comes a comprehensive mod ala Magna Mundi Rome - although if we're just talking events atm, it's more an an EEP Rome

 

[tanathos]

Suggestion : I'd love to see an event at the beginning or a decision (Perhaps "assign an appointer") to give titles automatically. I find the process of titles much too cumbersome, especially with Cursus Honorum (I love the added titles, but going through every characters to makes sure they do not turn populists can be a hassle, I tend to focus on a few characters while they are alive).

 

[unmerged(135578)]

I think that the major difference between EU3 and EUR lies in individualized dreams of major personalities.

There should be some kind of system where on suitable intervals (once a year?) people would strive to make power play to deal with their rivals and enemies. Similarly when characters would be fairly close to each other in prestige there would be a chance that someone would strive to make a power play, for example a rebellion or assassination attempt. This would make the life of would be emperor quite lively.

It is also something that I remember fondly from playing board game Republic of Rome. Backstabbing, high treason, fixed court sessions and assassination runs.

In essence, crown is yours if you can keep it.

 

[vanin]

I think that the major difference between EU3 and EUR lies in individualized dreams of major personalities.

There should be some kind of system where on suitable intervals (once a year?) people would strive to make power play to deal with their rivals and enemies. Similarly when characters would be fairly close to each other in prestige there would be a chance that someone would strive to make a power play, for example a rebellion or assassination attempt. This would make the life of would be emperor quite lively.

It is also something that I remember fondly from playing board game Republic of Rome. Backstabbing, high treason, fixed court sessions and assassination runs.

In essence, crown is yours if you can keep it.

That sounds pretty logical, but we have to keep it on a reasonable level, I still have the "heir-dies-instantly"-issue fresh in mind. While we are on the prospect of the Greeks, what about introducing a level of "Hellenization", i.e. how many Greek colonies there is in a province? Perhaps this could have a likeness to the jews in Magna Mundi, but with effects such as more research points and for Hellenized countries more manpower? The same would obviously go for all major powers, with the level of Latin, Punic etc. settlers there is in a province.

 

[EvilSanta]

IMHO making an accurate and balanced map is the first most important task to enabling Rome become a game that is worthy of playing.

No, map is of secondary importance. Adding depth via events, decisions, laws, triggers and what-not is the priority as far as I am concerned.

 

[Hardradi]

No, map is of secondary importance. Adding depth via events, decisions, laws, triggers and what-not is the priority as far as I am concerned.

I would endorse this entirely - you could also get involved with the map making so you can have a degree of control over it too IMHO making an accurate and balanced map is the first most important task to enabling Rome become a game that is worthy of playing. After that comes a comprehensive mod ala Magna Mundi Rome - although if we're just talking events atm, it's more an an EEP Rome

Regarding game balance. I see that the map and factions should be set as per the historical record, at a given point in time. Any other way and it becomes fiction.

I believe it is all the other factors which should effect the game balance, the terrain, the province statistics, cultures, characters, events, decisions, laws, etc.