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The Born and Hell map is the same template I believe as the final mission from the orginal Majesty 2.

I like to try different strategies on this map and the donkey map just for kicks.
I am have beaten both of these various ways, for repetitive replayability.

The most consistent/easiest way of defeating this map for myself has been to clear the southern dens and get upgraded trading posts with one guard tower up. The positioning of the tower is helpful as the individual spawns from off the map that time could be attacked by both at the same time instead of just one or the other.
(Easiest clear order/monster den difficulty SW,SE,NW,N,NE)

The Southeastern den vampires are annoying early on use a high enough attack flag to get a lot of heroes on them at once. If you don't get the skeleton dens early enough there are too many for you to handle.

As you clear north I get the near imp den and then go northwest for the wraith dens. The northern trading posts seem to need a dwarven tower each and I would use a protect flag on the post until both are built in each spot.

I like to get a Warrior, Cleric, Ranger, Wizard, Rogue combo going ASAP. And group the rogues into a group of three or leave them solo for a while the War, Ranger, Wiz, Cleric groups. (2 w/War lead one with Ranger lead*. The rogues seem more willing to attack a den at lower flag prices which can be good or bad if the corresponding spawns.)

Later I like to add a dwarves, paladins and priestesses and at times another set of clerics and/or temple dps class. (*A Ranger,Dwarf, Wizard, Cleric group is very nice for searching areas where you know a high level mob will likely be encountered.)

I would not advise spawning a wizard before you have some clerics up at the start. One attack flag and then two on dens early on to get your heroes somewhat grouped.

I personally like to keep the number of towers I use to a minimum as they take potential experience away from heroes. two or three dwarvern towers with a regular tower near the castle and trading post work well (group them into a small diaglonal grid or adding points to make connected trangles); especially for the northern wave assualts later until you get steady elementals later by which time you won't really need towers. Might add a stray tower for a key building that seems to get too many rats etc at once.

Defense flags can work well but are clumsy(I especially dislike them for the hunt for donkey mission), I prefer getting a decent economy going and then relying on attack flags. For the waves with lots of mobs tag one of every 3-4 grouped mobs usually heroes will snag the others since they are close and attacked by them, but keep on eye a lose mob doesn't go off and snag a key building. The hunt for donkey I use lots of 200-500 attack flags by the time the the archers of helia and krypta priestesses come. When you have elemetals later on place the closer attack flags(one you want to kill first) with 500-1000g and the others with 300-500 this will tend to prioritize the heroes decently. (Make sure you have Statue of the King.)

Marketplace asap, one to two trading posts as early as safely possible. The southwest one does ok for a bit upgraded without a tower. Blacksmith once all heroes have one upgraded ability.(Wise for mages to have iceblock spell whatever it is called lvl 2/500g) All level one b/s then upgrade 1k for dwarves usually. I usually skip the magic bazaar unless I have a ridiculous amount of money to waste with 1-5k attack flags as heroes waste money on pots over equipment, think that is discussed elsewhere in the forums.

Just my 3 cents. :cool:
 
That is fantastic info, thank you both VERY much for posting it. As of now, I still haven't found my own combination that works, but I will be back at it tonight.

Thanks again.
 
seriously you have reach a dwarven tower cost of 17000?¿. what a waste of gold man.

Wich such amount i could live off it very well on the caribbean for a very nice period.

But, at least you beat the map lol. Congrats.

Yeah it was pretty silly. But I had so much money by then why not? Level 1 heroes just get slaughtered so no sense in building more guilds. I had everything else built and upgraded to max.
 
I neglected to specify the mobs waves from the north from off map are the most annoying in the middle days, therefore build from the sides of the castle south with towers to the north.

I also like keeping the market place, blacksmith and inn close to each other so that heroes will snag nearby mobs as they visit frequently. The three can be almost like a set of towers for one side/area, just keep in mind what will come to attack those buildings if your heroes are all chasing various attack defend flags.

I would love to see an extended version of this map that is very long or open ended with inclreasingly difficult mobs, if only I understood the editor better. :p
 
Yeah it was pretty silly. But I had so much money by then why not? Level 1 heroes just get slaughtered so no sense in building more guilds. I had everything else built and upgraded to max.

17000 gold for one tower is useless, no matter if you have 100000 to spend. By the time you are able to spend such quantities on a dwarf tower you don´t even need them, at least, on my own experience; well, you don´t even need to destroy a thing, as everything is destroyed at that time and all of us will probably agree on that, hahaha, well just joking. What you spend on towers on such degree lacks in your own strategy skills. But, that´s experience to be gained the more you play.

Dont forget to resurrect early leveled heros when the game is advanced, they are NOT useless, over time they will do the job as they will get levels hardly but they will. You wont have money problems to do that more also if you have agrela´s resurrection.
 
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What you spend on towers on such degree lacks in your own strategy skills. But, that´s experience to be gained the more you play.

I can't help but take this jab at me personally this time. You see, this is at least twice I've seen you attack someone's skill and call them inexperienced on these forums. In my case, I've been playing Majesty since it first came out, and played LAN games with friends for years. I've also been playing Majesty 2 since it's release, replaying the campaigns several times (though not multiplayer... wish they had co-op though!).

So experience I do not lack. I just lack your ability to insult other's on this forum for simply trying to help another player try a DIFFERENT tactic (that worked QUITE well in this case I might add). There is more than one way to win a map, but to each his own I guess.
 
Yeah. Those posts are odd.

Ojcar, perhaps you should start a thread where you can offer bizzare comments about various posts from other contributors. The things you are posting in this thread are of no use. As a person looking for answers I can tell you that you have been no help, and yes the things you slap up here border on insults. It may not be intended so, but that is the case.

Odd.
 
Not my intention to offend BUT experience is critical to win maps, and no hint posted here grants you victory without it. They are all just secondary, as most of you will find over time your own way of playing.

There is no miraculous solution to solve your problems beating a map or a bunch of them. You have posted here as if it was some serious problem in your life or something...

So, trial and error > learn from your mistakes > adquire experience > increased chances of sucess. That´s how life works.

2+2=4
 
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That's great. Everyone here has experience. They mentioned it. Numerous times. I have experience. There is no need for me to post here if the answer is "experience". I've played this scenario about 40 times. That's plenty. So I came here for help from people who beat it. That's the point of the post, and the posts after it that were useful. It is not a post asking for critiques of the ideas offered. I appreciate the helpful posts. Yours are not.
 
Yours are the best. Yes. So good that I don't actually need any more from you! That's how great they are. So you can go spread your genius elsewhere now, cause we're full up here. Completely filled to the top. Thank you!
 
Over time, you will look back at how though some maps were for you and you will probably laugh at it, that´s what im talking about and you (and probably Iammeeks) don´t get. Im talking about your own learning curve as a player of this game and your patience about it. Experience is a subjetive matter, and im not using it as some thing to make you feel "inferior" or "stupid" in comparison with my experience, i did some cheap jokes that went misunderstood but, both are two things that cannot be compared. YOUR own experience is what makes you able to do things better under certain conditions. Your own betterment. This is all about you, not you vs me or whatever. And that´s what i emphasized you to work to improve, keep training.

well maybe in a multiplayer i would bash you up (another cheap joke). :p (or not, who knows)

The internet is bad for applying subjetive senses of humour, anyways, why so serious about this. How old are you?. (if you don´t mind telling it).
 
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At first I thought you were trying to be mean, and the opposite of helpful by pretending you were so much better than everyone else with your comments of us 'being inexperienced'. Now I think you are so full of yourself that you really mean it in your posts.

So, honestly, thank you for giving what you think is good advice, but is in reality not helpful in the slightest other than on some spiritual level that is only kind of related to this game. I mean, in life, if you fail at something, one could say the same thing. Just try again right? So again, thanks for trying to help I guess, but if you want to avoid upsetting most people in the future, I'd advise against what could be taken as a personal attack on them, and instead put in an actual strategy that worked for you. You'll make more friends that way, and that is straight from my life experience. :)
 
Ojcar's replies can be a bit strange sometimes (and uncalled for as the comments about playing experience) but i think he means well in general. He is an active member of this community (one of the few) i like to think those replies are intentionally a bit offensive to some to stir up some discussion and keep the community alive.

But as far as his and other advice goes: There are definitly more then one way to beat this map, but i dont think most players need (or want) a step by step guide for one strategy on how to play this map and the game as a whole. So indeed it's mostly about 'secundary stuff'. But these secundary strategies are the ones one need to explore to increase their own experience in the game and get better at it.

So i dont think you guys are talking about too much of a different thing, its just how you look at it imho.
 
I agree with THAT guy!

Can we get back to wet nursing me through this mission? If someone could just come by the house and hold my hand while I play, that would be perfect...
 
Had a better run this time. Here's how I beat it:

First 10 days: made warrior, cleric, ranger, rogue, wizard. Apart from holy attack, ice arrow, rogue poisoning and potions , other upgrades can wait. Blacksmith built but no research until about day 9. Guard tower on sewers. The key was placing my starting guilds to W, SE and SW pushing out fog and REVEALING 2 OF THE NEAREST CRYPTS AND 1 GRAVEYARD. This meant I could attack immediately and rush from flag to flag without waiting for explorers to reveal lairs. First the graveyard, then those 2 crypts with nothing worse than zombies to contend with and finally the portal - and all right out of the guilds. From there I kept aggressively exploring often in multiple directions to S and W and a little bit N. I resisted temptation to tech upgrade - saved my hard earned gold for exploring and attacking lairs. Must be hyper aggressive.

Day 10: palace upgrade to lvl 2, blacksmith to lvl 2. Built 2nd cleric guild, put 2 wiz towers N of palace. As the S was cleared, I built the 2 trading posts down there and I'm pretty sure they never had problems and ghosts and liches just sailed right on by. Between days 10-20 focussed mostly on clearing SE, upgraded rangers and warriors to level 2. Also explored a bit to W and partly NW. Lost a few heroes here and there but nothing major (lost 7 heroes in total at end of map, mostly rogues, warriors, rangers picked off by vampires that slipped under the radar)

Day 20: Built dwarven settlement, researched level 2 equipment and weapon enchantment. Cleared most of the map except medium sized pockets in the NW and NE. It was hard work but no longer hopeless. I got harrassed very often by platoons of veteran skeletons or lone vampires on their way S but with perseverance, protect flags on explorers, attack flags, eagle eye spell (and a scepter or two), I gradually cast back the dark , discovered the lairs and threw generous attack flags on them (up to 1000 gold as targets a bit further away now). Sometimes used a wizard tower or two for crowd control while heroes finished off a lair. The towers would get destroyed later on but that's good - it means it's no more expensive to build new towers on other lairs!

Day 30: upgraded palace to level 3, marketplace (finally!) to level 2. Lost a cleric guild and rogue guild to elementals during this time and had to rebuild them. They did stick out a bit so were asking for it but that's the price I paid to push back the fog at start. Upgraded dwarven settlement to level 2 for stoneblood. Built 1 dwarven tower to N and one to W of palace where elementals came. Apart from tiny remaining pockets in NW and NE corners, map was almost cleared.

Day 41 eliminated one last lair in NE corner with help from 3 fast-built wizard towers. I know there is also one last lich/zombie crypt in NW corner but I may or may not have bothered. Haste built a paladin temple E of palace around this time then a 2nd paladin temple to W. Cannot get those guys out soon enough and didn't want to risk a 3000 building.

Day 53: 4 paladins (all have reached about level 5). Blademaster temple under construction in SE. Had upgraded rogues and warriors to level 3 by now, but not yet other guilds. Also built 3rd dwarven tower E of palace, so now I had all 3 elemental approach points covered. Sometime between now and day 60 I upgraded marketplace to lvl 3, remaining guild upgrades (cleric, ranger, wiz), and started level 3 blacksmith stuff. This is where the tide really started to turn and my heroes had very few problems from here on.

Day 68: Marketplace, all blacksmith research completed fairly quickly with day 60 money. The 4 paladins were averaging about level 8. The 2 blademasters about level 7. These 6 elite troops were particularly effective against the elementals which are all relatively weak to melee. Just waited for the elementals and 500g flag them when they get close so more heroes rush out to welcome them. Sometimes the sneaky bastards converge in small groups on towers or buildings in two areas at once. Usually my heroes could get to them on time but if not, the dwarven building spell kept a tower or temple hanging in there for those crucial few seconds until heroes rushed over. Money was not an issue at this stage. Ended up adding Krypta and Agrela recuits to the mix more for fun.