Make CORE live up to its name once again!

[donkeysaint]

CORE - Community Open Resource Exchange.

For HoI I, CORE followed its creed, the development was open and transparent from the very start. Things came along nicely, with major and minor updates released continuously and scores of people contributing in major or minor ways. CORE 1 was one of the most successful and popular mods, with Paradox's release of HoI Platinium with CORE, as on of its high marks.

Unfortunately, CORE 2 has not followed the same path. Even without considering the loss of the thousands of precious posts in the two forums that have been either hacked or abandoned, the development has been very slow. It has also been a closed process and updates on the progress have been few and far between. The releases have been even further apart, and the mod hasn't really been playable up until the last release, 0.3, which has been out for over a year.

Having said that, it is IMO still the best mod for HoI II, hands-down! It saddens me that it has not had the same impact as its predecessor.

I propose that the development team changes its policy. Release 0.4 as is, as an open beta. Use the interest that still is out there in the community to finish up the mod. Perhaps such a move will breath enough life into it for further versions to be developed openly with the help of the community, before HoI 3 will mark the start of its retirement.

Make CORE live up to its name once again!

 

[EmpressAria]

I as an avid CORE Mod player agree with what some of what has been said, but you must understand that this is a mod, the CORE team does this on thier free time and for free I might add. Also, what they have been working on recently with 0.4 has been AI recoding, which isn't easy, not at all. Also they like most mod teams don't want to release a broken mod, else there would be non stop people complaining on forums about a whole gaggle of bugs.

My only one thing I can say is that if they can please release more screens of thier work, I don't want them to do so much of it that it detracts from the actual release of the next CORE but then again seeing screens and such always lets the loyal fans get excited about a new release instead of just one day saying oh here we finally released the next edition of CORE.

Hearts of Iron III isn't due out till probably fall this year so they have time to develop this release, however and also depending on what else they want to do they might not have time for further releases assuming that the release after this one has a devolpment cycle as long as 0.4 has had.

And after all at least the CORE team does release some screens and the like, which is more then what can be said for some mods. Like Acyn, a Operation Flashpoint modder has been putting off his mod for years, like 3 I think currently and he never updates, or even really says hi on his forums.

By the way looking forward to 0.4 release still, keep up the good work.

 

[el alamein]

Hi guys! I'm one of the betatesters for CORE, and once the next release is available and ready for testing I'll post up some more screenshots for you. There were a few bugs that were causing major problems with the smooth flow of the war - with each beta release we have seen those gradually clear up, but it does take the developers a great deal of time, especially with any AI changes.

As soon as I have some decent screenshots for you to check out I'll post them up, most likely early next week once the next beta comes out.
CORE 0.40 is definitely worth the wait!

 

[Hagar]

As stated by El Alamein, we had a few headaches that seriously needed to be fixed. We still have a few of those out there (albeit only a very few), and we're winding up development of 0.4.0 as of now. Later today I'm hoping to release our first 0.4.0 Release Candidate to the Betas. Based on the test results we'll decide whether we can officially release, or whether a new Release Candidate build is needed.
I'm the first to admit that the development of 0.4.0 has proved to be far, far longer than expected, and I'd like to see the official release sooner rather than later, povided that any game-breaking issues are resolved. But we definately are on the home stretch here, so we're asking for just a little more patience.

 

[EmpressAria]

Good to hear guys

Good to hear, as always I still stick by the quality over quantity. Take the time you guys need because no one wants to see unfinished mods or broken ones.

Hope the beta testing goes well.

 

[Quiller]

Barabas and hagar are both right in my opinion... CORE has lost a lot of its fans because of the slow releases (in fact core 0.3 isn't the best mod around anymore...) there barabas is absolutely right...
The CORE development team on the other hand doesn't want to release a mod that is not ready and they are right...
My own opinion is that once 0.4 has no more game breaking flaws they should release before losing more fans!!! and perhaps the next months still some fine tuning releases (0.41, 0.42, 0.43, ...) can be released having the best mod around again by the arrival of HOI3...

So : my point to the developpers (a lot of credit they deserve!!!!) : A mod is NEVER finished... don't hesitate i am very sure that when your next beta arrives it will be good enough for 0.4. And don't forget : critics will allways be there because after a release thousands of 'testers' will still find some small bugs...

(by the way sorry for crappy english from this old time core fan from belgium)

 

[Seten]

I think op didn't critisize the mod in itself , but how the spirit between CORE 1 and CORE 2 change.

Once upon a time, it was really a comunity open ressource exchange with idea transformed into event during the same day on this forum.

But with CORE 2 everything changed, close forum, closed testing etc.
that does not change if its a good mod or not , just... the philosophy

 

[coreymas]

I would like to make a comment please.

The CORE team has to be one of the most dedicated teams I have ever seen when it comes to quality, integrity and reliability.

I sincerely hope that they consider making a 0.5 version of CORE. There is so much more coming very soon that will make it worth their while.

So continue to support these fine gentlemen in their efforts... you will be rewarded.

 

[dec152000]

Hi,

I will agree that the phillosophy of CORE has changed somewhat and that CORE2 has "evolved" much more slowly. OTOH, I really take exception to the comments that we have gone to a "closed" format. We've always encouraged participation from players and the comments, here and on our board, make a major impact on how we approach matters. While our Beta is "closed" we accepted nearly every initial applicant for the testing. So those that wanted to actively help with the process certainly had a chance to do so.

As for the general concept of being less open it came as a result of a changed phillosophy and changed personnel. A number of the developers from CORE1 decided that the "open" format created some serious issues with what was possible in the mod. That format encouraged mass participation, but a lot of the participation resulted in "band aid" fixes to Techs and Events rather than comprehensive rebuilds. The end result is that CORE1 was a lot like HOI1 on steroids. For CORE2 the developers decided on a different path and aimed for a near complete rebuild of the entire file set. This might have worked out nicely...

Unfortunately, due to various issues, pretty much all of the old development team eventually quit working on the project. This left a lot of the ideas only partially complete. New developers had to take over and this took a lot of time to get fully up to speed. Plus HOI2 has changed a lot via DD and ARM. This entailed even more work. Realistically the first 2 years of work provided very little return in a number of areas. We've come a long ways over the last 2 years, but we are still trying to catch up to Vanilla. Hopefully this will be resolved once and for all with the 0.40 release.

mm

 

[unmerged(131221)]

just visit http://www.terranova.dk/ its the CORE home and forum

 

[unmerged(42794)]

I believe that while due to the very ambitious concept of Core 2, it took longer than usual, Core is definitely not the only mod that changed pretty much everything of the original game. TRP or Compendium changed pretty much everything there is as well, from technologies to scenario setup etc.

If you make smaller releases, and have many more players playing the mod, telling you of the issues, you can also end up getting proposals on how to solve them. Having 2000 people play games simply gives you more trials at once, with more possible outcomes that could detect errors.

But trying to make a mod rather like a real game is developed, ie closed development, fixed beta testers probably was a bit too much, as you don't get paid to do this.


As such even if the Core 1 might have had drawbacks due to its open way, at least it was pretty much done before HoI 2 came out.
Which might be difficult to achieve with this mod, unless you decide to skip .50 and name it 1.0 that is

 

[Hagar]

TRP will always have a headstart with Lothos on board, I reckon. And Compendium is what it pretends to be, a compendium of favorite mods into a new single mod (including some of our stuff, if I'm not mistaken). I do believe we went a lot further in our redesign than TRP and Compendium did though.

Smaller releases: well to be honest I fail to see where we could have done so, given the changes we put through. Revising tech trees and AI take a heck of a lot of time, and realistically can't be done in parts. We could decide to lower our standards considerably and release inferior versions more quickly, but I for one favor quality over quantity. A mod that's seriously buggy will lose it's fan base even faster than a slow-releasing, quantum-leaping releasing strategy will. If we could have we would have, but the 0.3 Doomsday and 0.4 Armageddon migrations are proving to be seriously headaches compared to the regular Vanilla CORE versions due to the altered playing field of game mechanics. Part of the problem is the eye for detail and perfection each of us is trying to achieve, but that's what has drawn us together in the first place as a team, and is the heart and soul of our forums.

Closed development/closed beta: in order to achieve what we're aiming for we have to have similar phylosophy, similar dedication, similar quality standards, and similar set of mind, as well as not too many people messing around with the same stuff at the same time (most likely with two different, perhaps even opposing, goals). That means anything but an open development, as that will imply we will lose our focus and sence of direction, and will end up with a 'HOI2 on steroids' rather than a more realistic, more historical, and more complex game we are aiming for. If we feel we need additions to the team, we recruit, usually amongst the Betas as that gives us a perfect opportunity to find similar minds and good additions to the team. If people volunteer themselves to join, that's seriously considered (Dec's a perfect example). But we do expect the same standards from everybody, and joining is in a way a double-edged sword, as it comes with loads of obligations...
The Beta is and was more or less open, though we do want to limit the amount of testers - otherwise we simply can't cope with the sheer volume of test reports and (duplicate or worse) issues reported. Usually during the first rounds of the Betas the wheat is separated from the chaff, and the less dedicated or productive Betas are replaced with new volunteers. But we do end up with a roster of good of not excellent Betas that really contribute to the team's efforts and standards.

As to HoI3 I'm still on a wait-and-see attitude. We might decide to migrate at a given point, and probably are in better shape than the move from HoI1 to HoI2, as we now have a dedicated team with a lot of design knowledge that's not simply 'lost' like it was on HoI1 (as it was more of an 'open community'). So we're likely to be able to reuse a lot of ideas, source material and expertise we've mastered the last couple of years. But first HoI3 has to prove it's actually an improvement over HoI2. It certainly looks better, but the rest is still unclear.

 

[unmerged(52476)]

I really appreciate the immense work the CORE developers put into their mod. If coreymas says that the CORE team has to be one of the most dedicated teams when it comes to quality, integrity and reliability, I can only second that.

Nevertheless, HoI2 and CORE2 are several years old, and even if I think that CORE has the greatest potential of all mods around, other mods are much more appealing because by now they are finished, comprehensive products.

I perfectly understand the reasons stated why CORE2 was done the way it was done. But retrospective, you must ask yourself if, choosing this way, you were probably aiming too high.

I would love to see a CORE for HoI3. as I said, I like the basic ideas behind CORE. But I do hope that when you make the change to HoI3 you also change your philosophy. I do not think anyone (including to OP) asks you to switch back to a fully open approach. Just a little. Otherwise I see me playing CORE3 as much as I played CORE2: almost never. And I would not like that

 

[Hagar]

Well, there's hardly a way back now, as things stand. I'm certain we will look at how to plan our approach to HoI3, once we get that far.

 

[Berlichingen]

CORE mod is the Europa Barbarorum of HOI2. And both are the best for their respective games. Attention to Detail and quality always is better, its why mods like them are needed, cause gaming companies due to profitability can't feasibly spend the endless hours doing it.

 

[Depp]

Does CORE have any fans left? I mean nothing they have released so far measures up to any of the other larger mods? Maybe 0.40 can revive it but when hoi3 is soon out Im thinking the race is almost over...

 

[unmerged(82105)]

Does CORE have any fans left? I mean nothing they have released so far measures up to any of the other larger mods? Maybe 0.40 can revive it but when hoi3 is soon out Im thinking the race is almost over...

Well. maybe I'll be a little out of place here, but please let me explain what I think.
Back in 2002 I was at the mall looking for a cheap game to play that night. I ended up buying Hearts of Iron (that was on the bargain shelf), it was a complete bet for me, since I never heard something about it and also the box didn't help a lot. Ok, whatever. Came back and played: I liked the game, I didn't love it, it was fair I thought. The big disappointment were the bugs: the game was crashing every 20 minutes. I thought to give up, and put the game in a closet forever. Luckily enough before doing that I checked the forum and found out about patches. On top of that everybody was starting their thread like this: "Hi guys, I'm playing a game as XXX, core 0.6, can you give me some suggestions?...". It took me awhile before figuring out what CORE was... but after I've tried it my game experience changed completelly! I've played it for years, continously, I swear. I know it doesn't make too much impression, but the reason why after that I've bought all paradox games (ok, beside Diplomacy) is that I discovered CORE few minutes before giving up on HOI 1. I know that this second release has been more trubble, but still I am a big CORE fan and supporter. I'm speaking only for myself, of course, but yes, I'm waiting for 0.4 to come out with the same excitement of a brand new game release. Thanks for all your work, seriously. [sorry to sound patetic]

Ricroma

 

[Depp]

I hear you, and I guess my disappointment with Core2 was based upon the greatness of the first Core. If I didn't think that was great, I wouldn't have bothered with Core 2 at all. But as seeing what all the other mods have achieved and some of them with only one or a couple of people, I had expected Core2 to be in the top. But to me not a single release have been fun to tinker with, and the times it takes them is obscene.

But critisism against a mod is rarly productive since it's a sparetime project. But when a mod isn't fun to play when the sequal is annonced, it was a waste of time.

Oh, bittertime is now over, hehehe

 

[donkeysaint]

Alright, I seem to have stirred things around a little bit.

My original post was not meant as a critique of the mod itself, I thought and still think that it is the best mod for HoI2. The attention to detail in the tech system, from economic backgrounds of countries and the way they are effected by the great economic crisis, to the different doctrinal set-up making countries unique. The unit system that AFAIK, is the only one who handles divisions of different sizes, the mobilization event system that is very complex and unique too, the attention to have countries build more or less historical armed forces instead of the division-spree of vanilla and most other mods. I could go on.

I also want to add that I have the greatest respect for all that are involved in the development and beta-testing. As others have pointed out, it's a free time project and the attention to detail and quality that you have is second to none.

What I wanted, and still want however, is more of the open-development feeling that at least I had with CORE 1.

Here's what I suggest for future versions of CORE 2 (and 3), perhaps it could be considered by the developing team.

Make the beta forum over at terranova, accessible to all. I suppose posting-privileges could still be limited to devs and betas, so that those threads won't be clogged. Any fans interested enough could then see what is happening, what is being discussed and considered. They could then discuss this in the open forums, as well as volunteer to help out with different things, and be in a better position to propose things of their own. If you so choose, the beta-releases themselves could still kept within the dev-beta group. I am sure there are several ways that could be done.

I know this would suit me great. I might not have the time to log in and be active enough to keep my beta status over time (I have been removed twice ), but I still have a strong interest in the developing of CORE. I like to think that I have contributed useful things to both CORE's, and would like to keep on doing so. Perhaps there are more like me around.

Maybe this can create a developing environment that is even more creative and open than before.
And wouldn't it be a great way to advertise CORE, and at the same time keep all fans informed about what is happening. What would the downside be? A little more activity and dynamics over at terranova. Isn't that something we all want? After all, there aren't any business secrets being hidden in the beta forum, just a great mod that more people would like to help improve and develop.

Thank you.

 

[Benz]

please open core to the public or change its name. closed over retentive elitism.

good mod