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Slargos

Slargos

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Dec 24, 1999
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One of my big gripes about EU2 and more importantly EU3 was that population really didn't matter in the greater scheme.

Using as an example my favourite nation to play ( :p ), Sweden, it can be turned into a massive, wealthy empire which should by all rights especially with the correct domestic slider settings create a situation where the population thrives and grows which should in turn increase base manpower and tax values.

War, in turn, should hurt the population more than it does in EU2, and it should reflect in manpower values aswell. You shouldn't be able to conscript at 100% capacity for 20 years without SERIOUSLY hurting regrowth.
 
Yes, bring in the POPs! :D

(seriously, having population would be pure awesomeness, but not the POP way please ;))


EDIT/ Oh, and Yoda, please don't forget to nerf Sweden :D
 
DarthMaur said:
Yes, bring in the POPs! :D

(seriously, having population would be pure awesomeness, but not the POP way please ;))


EDIT/ Oh, and Yoda, please don't forget to nerf Sweden :D
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If anything, Sweden needs a boost. The artificial event boosts were fine and dandy, but they failed to model the innate superiority of the swedish organizational model and the naval goods/copper/iron industry.

So fuck you, Maur. :p
 
This should show, Sweden in history just had too few people to maintain it's army, economy and empire at the same time.
 
Hmmm... yes, I will be VERY glad to have population provide more meaningful in-game effects. It SHOULD matter.
 
Pops are not necessary.

A place to start would be expanding the effects of population growth.

- give base tax a few decimals and tie it to population growth which will over time make peaceful provinces more wealthy and hurt provinces often hit by conflict.
- make manpower growth depend on the available manpower in the pool aswell as province manpower thus making it harder and harder to regrow the pool as the war progresses.

and/or

- introduce a hit to population growth when recruiting regiments, forcing the player to not use the same province over and over for recruitment needs

I'm just getting started. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to do this without overcomplicating the model.
 
introduce a hit to population growth when recruiting regiments, forcing the player to not use the same province over and over for recruitment needs

Please not this. I always find it tedious to create armies late game. recruit 3 times in a 5-6 province and then send them all to a border province - very tedious. Historically speaking it is a very good idea. Gam play wise -not so much.

How about simply a general population hit - not tied to a specific province. Say you recruit 5000 a province loses 5000 people.

The only problem I have with recruitment based on population is the EU III problem that smaller countries are simply screwed if they expand quickly. In EU II you still have a fighting chance against power houses.
 
Sluthost said:
Pops are not necessary.

A place to start would be expanding the effects of population growth.

- give base tax a few decimals and tie it to population growth which will over time make peaceful provinces more wealthy and hurt provinces often hit by conflict.
- make manpower growth depend on the available manpower in the pool aswell as province manpower thus making it harder and harder to regrow the pool as the war progresses.

and/or

- introduce a hit to population growth when recruiting regiments, forcing the player to not use the same province over and over for recruitment needs

I'm just getting started. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to do this without overcomplicating the model.
Click to expand...
Since we're getting serious:

Yes, somehow tying population (and its growth) to income (that would have to be further heavily modified ofc) and manpower is good idea. I'd prefer to see the actual growth rates to be realistic, not simplified Victoria like static modifiers. Like, high growth rates in low-density provinces like America, disease factors like Africa for Euro cultures, stable foodstuff supply. And so on.

I'm not a fan of province based regimental recruitment, especially without actual regiment. It's micromanagement that doesn't add that much - and it's not like people can't move on their own to reach recruitment camp or whatever it is.

And of course, whole colonization could be made realistic if we have population... no longer need for some abstract "colonists".
 
Slargos said:
(...)
- introduce a hit to population growth when recruiting regiments, forcing the player to not use the same province over and over for recruitment needs
(...)
Click to expand...

What about this:
Limit for recruit army in province (per month):

max_size_army = manpower + supply limit/5

(in next month supply autoamtically will be provided for army, so next army can be created)

Example 1:

Province supply limit = 40
City manpower = 1.0

max_size_army = 1.0 + 40/5 = 9 (9000)

Example 2 (poor province):

Province supply limit = 15
City manpower = 0

max_size_army = 0 + 15/5 = 3 (3000)

Currently (EU2):
"Recruitment capacity is based on the province tax that a city generates: a city that pays N ducats per year in province tax has a base recruitment capacity of N units."
It is little crazy ;)

http://www.paradoxian.org/eu2wiki/index.php/Recruitment

Slargos said:
(...)
- make manpower growth depend on the available manpower in the pool aswell as province manpower thus making it harder and harder to regrow the pool as the war progresses.
(...)
Click to expand...

Maybe War Exhaustion +1 = Total Manpower pool - 5%

http://www.paradoxian.org/eu2wiki/index.php/Manpower
 
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i find regiments being tied to the population in the province an good idea , for example if you have a base on the southern cape of africa and it gets heavily attacked by natives and than your population runs out and you cant build further troops , of course this would annoy some players but i for one would find it an exciting idea
 
A static base tax that starts as the majority of one's income and gradually diminishes with time and tech is to me an essential quality without which it is no longer an EUII game.
 
Nice idea, but it must be something to save the small countries with low population from power houses, like someone already mentioned. And what about rebels, they are a part of population too? I also think, that military actions must exhaust province much more, than it was in EU2.
 
cool-toxic said:
Why not start of with more levels of population? As it is now we have 1000, 20000, and 200000 according to the Wiki. So having 1000 and 19000 does not give the same bonus and it should matter even though you have not hit the 20000th man.
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Excellent idea!
 
actually there is a middle level of 5000 between 1000 and 20000
 
New levels are:

1000
2000
4000

5000
10000
20000
40000
80000
200000
above 200000

first ones are multiples of 1000 (1000 is moddable). Last are multiples of 5000 (5000 is moddable).
 
Can someone1 plz explain in some details???

what is new pop levels for/mean?
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From paradoxian.org/eu2wiki :
Effects of Population
The most important effect of population is determining when a colony turns into a colonial city. This happens at 1000 pop, or 900 pop if there are natives present. This transition has many effects; for example, you can only promote officials in a city. Cities pay census tax; colonies don't. Cities are worth more warscore and also cost badboy to take in war.

Population also is the difference between being a colonial city (pop 1000-4999), and a full city (pop 5000+). Cities and colonial cities mostly have the exact same rules; however, there are several ways in which they differ. Colonial cities can have their culture converted under certain conditions, whereas the culture of a city cannot be changed unless it is pagan. And colonial cities cost 1/5 as much to religiously convert, if they are on a different continent than the capital of their country. Colonial cities are subject to a few different growth modifiers than cities; see below.

As a city increases in population, when it reaches certain population levels (5000, 10000, 20000, etc.) it will increase its income. Most income generated by a province is affected by its population, including production income, gold income, trade tax, and generated trade. Additionally, at certain population levels (1000, 20000, and 200000) the manpower supplied by the province increases.

Population makes religious conversion attempts both more expensive and less likely to succeed.
Click to expand...
 
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