Mana Pools

[aono]

Maybe a minority here, but I like it. As I recall from reading dev diaries, the idea behind monarch points was in part to help good rulers and bad rulers feel different.

As I'm asking a lot currently: yes, that's idea - does it work?

Mana, in my opinion, isn't bad because it's sloppy design, because it's abstract, or something. It's a system that doesn't work, and that's why it's bad.

 

[Seaweed and Mayonnaise]

Maybe a minority here, but I like it. As I recall from reading dev diaries, the idea behind monarch points was in part to help good rulers and bad rulers feel different. With lower stats on a crappy king, a country would languish, while am exceptionally strong monarch could advance his kingdom by big leaps if he had a good reign. I view systems like that as a way to make characters matter.

I'd argue the exact opposite. It makes all my rulers feel the same. They are abstracted away from being people and instead are reduced down to being a numerical value that informs me how long I have to wait to perform actions.

 

[BeauNiddle]

You don't "work around" arbitrarily fewer resources. If you're any good at the game, you have a list of priorities on how to spend resources. Some people literally make that list, I suspect most have it intuitively. The better you are, the more likely this list is to resemble a theoretical optimal one.

Regardless, if you have randomly fewer resources w/o agency you do randomly fewer things on that list, starting from the top. There are no extra decisions made, no tradeoffs between necessary resources and other things. You just do fewer things.

That amounts to playing the game less, not "working around it". In practice when people are asked how to "work around it" their answer is to do fewer things.

It's junk design.

The problem is some people get addicted to their lists and never deviate. It's like people who use a walkthrough guide to play a game and then complain there were no choices.

If you play the game to see what you can do with a nation by the end of the game then random is not only good but actually necessary.
If you are doing an achievement run then random is bad.

So the question becomes what portion of the playerbase play to see what happens vs how many play with a specific goal in mind.

[the above assumes switching from a 6/3/1 leader to a 1/3/6 leader, not switching from a 4/3/3 leader to a 1/1/1 leader which is just dull (but can lead to interesting recovery play later).]

 

[lazprune]

Mana as a core mechanic is boring because it makes you instently "buy" successful actions. On the contrary, making "investments" in an action, hoping it will succeed and grant you more than it currently cost even thought it might just be a loss, is an entertaining risk-reward mechanic.

In the thread shown by my signature, I describe how the Foci of CK2 could be turned into a time investment system in the next game and be the core of gameplay. I really hope CK3 will have something like that and not Mana...

 

[Pile_O_Gunz]

As I'm asking a lot currently: yes, that's idea - does it work?

Mana, in my opinion, isn't bad because it's sloppy design, because it's abstract, or something. It's a system that doesn't work, and that's why it's bad.

I think it worked. I still have nightmares about Henry VI in Eu4.

 

[PedroLuiz]

I think it worked. I still have nightmares about Henry VI in Eu4.

Some English somewhere must still have too

 

[Daffius]

The mana system was implemented to stop snowballing. The larger you got, the more money you had, the more manpower you had, etc... Things like tech speed reduction or inflation didn't really make a dent once you were big enough.

With mana, you have a resource that is limited and essential for basic actions. Slowing down blobbing.

The idea is ok, but I deeply dislike the implementation. It is an instant reward, were you wait and then press a button and suddenly everyone is orthodox faith or german culture or etc...

I prefer gameplay were your actions have an effect down the line. Were you can screw up real bad and any mitigating actions will take time to rectify the sitiation. And not => slay pig -> gain mana -> press stability button -> everyone happy.