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Originally posted by Sonny


How many years does it cover?:)
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The whole run of German history. I didn't mention the nine pre-HRE states and the four post-HRE states in Germany (well, technically there were 39 post-HRE states, but the first 35 were simply the states that survived the end of the HRE and were later incorperated into modern Germany), but they are there as well...

BTW, this isn't confined to the HRE. I've done lists of just about every conceivable Eurpoean and Central Asian nation and am now working my way through the Middle East
 
I suppose that you don't happen to know the coat of arms of the Attoni family... I have given up finding it...
 
Not at the moment, though I know a book where I could look it up (it's in French though, and that's a pain to deal with!) Were they a ruling family, and if so, where?
 
Wow, that must be one amazing list of rulers! If it is published, I can't wait to take a look at it. Talk about commitment!
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Yeah!

How many years does it cover?
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I am curious, when u r talking about pre HRE states, how far did u went, Demetrios? I mean that like, Is it beginning with Clovis? Or with the divison of Charlemagne's Empire after the death of Louis. Or is it about 950's at the time of Otto and his driving off of the Maygars, thus securing HRE crown and title. How far back u r going? Can u tell me exact year Otto (or Udo or Odo, whatever, many of the books I have read have different version of his name, which is correct?) were crown as HRE Emperor? I forgot :eek:
 
Start of the HRE - the crowning of Charlemagne on 25 December 800

Otto I was crowned Emperor on 2 February 962

When talking about pre-HRE sates, I mean just that, the states that existed in Germany before 800. The first rulers I have listed are for tribal states around the start of the Christian Era, the great Roman foes: the Chatti, the Cherusci, and the Suebi (the leaders of the other Germanic foes of Rome during that period, the Marcomanni and the Quadi, are listed under the Czech Republic). After that, while I don't have the rulers of main (Salian) Frankish state listed in the German section as they appear in the section covering France, I do have the Ripurian Franks, who lived around Cologne. Then I have the rulers of the Alamanni, the Toringians/Thurnigians (both of which appear twice, once each as an independent state, once each as a Frankish Duchy), the Baiuvarii/Bavarians, and the Saxons. All these had been absorbed into the Kingdom of the Franks by 800, the year in which that state transformed into the HRE.
 
Originally posted by Sonny


I wasn't supposed to tell you this, but the real reason is that the Paradox folks lost their books which had those maps in them so they don't know what to put there. They just use that inhospitable stuuf as an excuse. Shhhh, don't tell.;)
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Not true... We got fed up with drawing borders so we decided that PTI was an excellent invention :p


Patric
 
Originally posted by Patric


Not true... We got fed up with drawing borders so we decided that PTI was an excellent invention :p


Patric
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Ah, so the truth comes out at last! :D ;)
 
Originally posted by Demetrios
Not at the moment, though I know a book where I could look it up (it's in French though, and that's a pain to deal with!) Were they a ruling family, and if so, where?
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They are commonly known by the name of their main stronghold in Canossa. The soat of arms of Mathilda would be very nice to know :)
 
Originally posted by Demetrios


:D

Dude, been there, done that! I have several hundred pages of research listing the rulers of hundreds of HRE states among my ruler lists that I hope to have published one day. A quick check revealed that I have lists of the rulers of 326 states during the HRE period within the boundries of modern Germany alone, which exludes of course all those many, many HRE states that were located in what are now other countries...
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Link?
 
Originally posted by Aetius


They are commonly known by the name of their main stronghold in Canossa. The soat of arms of Mathilda would be very nice to know :)
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Ah, that family! Unfortunately, it became extinct with Matilda's death in 1118, and, since heraldry didn't really get underway until the late 1100s, I doubt there ever was an actual "coat of arms" for the family.
 
Originally posted by Charles VII


Link?
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None, sorry; they only exist as Word documents on my computer and as folders and notebooks full of notes. I'm more than happy to send you (or anyone else for that matter) information from my lists, although it is much easier to do so for western Europe (which I have actually typed into my computer) than for eastern Europe and what I have done thus far in Asia (which are still only on paper - I really need to get a laptop to drag down to the libraries :) )
 
Originally posted by Demetrios


Ah, that family! Unfortunately, it became extinct with Matilda's death in 1118, and, since heraldry didn't really get underway until the late 1100s, I doubt there ever was an actual "coat of arms" for the family.
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That is what I guessed happened... Thanks anyway!
 
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