Mech Quirks

[whymakemedothis]

I've seen a lot of talk lately about quirks for the pre HM mechs so I thought I'd upload a stripped down version of my private mod where I've added quirks.

Just some comments I'd like to make. First there are not a lot of variables in the game that have a significant enough impact to make a quirk interesting so I decided to choose an effect as a basis for a role and then add a second effect to differentiate between them. For example I gave all recon mechs a rangefinder and skirmishers a reduced range to hit penalty.

Second there are two versions, the second is the same as the first except it replaces the called shot effect of the command module that command mechs get with a +4 initiative bonus just like the comms system.

Finally this is my personal mod with all the changes except those related to quirks removed. It was not intended for release and there may be some issues as a result. Now these two mods should work with the HBS modloader except DLC mechs(Crab, Cyclops Q and Javelin) won't get their quirks. For them you will need to use modtek.

Here's a list of the quirks I've added.

Locust - Rangefinder + Evasion
Commando - Ace Pilot + Hit Defense
Javelin - Ace Pilot + Melee Hit Defense
Spider - Rangefinder + Accuracy
Urbanmech - Hit Defense + Recoil Reduction
Jenner - Ace Pilot + Jump Distance
Firestarter - Fuel Reserves(increases flamer damage)
Panther - Breaching Shot + Minimum Weapon Range

Cicada - Rangefinder + Initiative + Energy Accuracy
Vindicator - Breaching Shot + Weapon Heat Reduction
Blackjack - Range To Hit + Damage After Jumping
Crab - Range To Hit + Max Stability
Enforcer - Range To Hit + Weapon Heat Reduction
Hunchback - Melee Damage + Melee Stabilty
Trebuchet - Missile Accuracy + Indirect Fire Penalty Reduction
Centurion - Max Stability + Melee Hit
Kintaro - Max Stability + Missile Accuracy
Griffin - Breaching Shot + Damage Reduction
Shadow Hawk - Range To Hit + Melee Hit
Wolverine - Command Module + Max Stabiltiy

Dragon - Max Stability + Hit Defense
Quickdraw - Stability Damage Reduction + Energy Accuracy
Catapult - Stabilty Damage
Jagermech - Autocannon Accuracy + Autocannon Damage
Thunderbolt - Max Stabilty + Accuracy
Cataphract - Max Stability + Damage Reduction
Grasshopper - Range To Hit + Energy Accuracy
Black Knight - Command Module + Squad Accuracy
Orion - Max Stability + Weapon Heat Reduction

Awesome - Weapon Damage + Stability Damage
Victor - Recoil Reduction + Evasion
Zeus - Range To Hit + Missile Clustering
Battlemaster - Command Module + Squad Damage Increase
Stalker - Max Satbility + Stability Damage
Highlander - DFA Damage + DFA Self Damage Reduction
CyclopsQ - Missile Clustering + Missile Accuracy
Banshee - Melee Stability Damage + Melee Hit
Atlas - Command Module + Squad Hit Defense
King Crab - Max Stability + Autocannon Accuracy

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Nicely done! :bow:

 

[Axterix13]

I'm in the midst of doing something similar as well. I agree that meaningful options are a bit limited. One way you can differentiate a bit between them is by how you trigger them. I've got a missile mech, for example, that gets extra damage and accuracy for its missiles from hitting with them. So that means its first shot has no bonus, but the second does. And if it stops firing for a bit, it's back to zero. Also, you can add little flavor things on top of the meaningful things. For example, as an extra thing, I gave Griffins a pair of shoulder baffles which add +5 armor to the head each. Most of the time, won't make much of a difference, but sometimes it does, and it definitely has flavor.

Anyway, definitely a lot of work, and props to you for doing it and sharing it with others.

 

[Stridercal]

I like the Griffon armor baffle thing, good stuff.

 

[whymakemedothis]

@Axterix13 that effect on hit trigger mechanism is a good idea. On the subject of the Griffin baffles I tried modeling that as a 10% damage reduction since they are on both the shoulders and knees according to sarna.

Some of the mechs are very hard to come up with anything for. The King Crab for example the obvious option would be increased auto cannon damage but that would make it the same as the Annihilator. In the end I settled on increased auto cannon accuracy so it can make better use of it's limited ammo. In the end it's not particular exciting from a players perspective as they'd likely add more ammo but it makes them much more dangerous in AI hands.

 

[Axterix13]

I ignored the leg ones, because leg armor providing armor for the legs is a given But I did give Dragons an overall 7.5% DR (and reduced chance of being crit) on account of how their design's shape is supposed to help make it more survivable. I do kind of hate giving DR, though, as to me it sort of feels like I'm giving a mech Ferro-Fibrous... more armor points per the ton. But as you mentioned earlier, limited effective options, and so we do what we can with what we have to add some variety.

I haven't gotten to the King Crab yet, but one thing I did do was nerf a few of the existing upgrades, including the 20% broad category ones like the Anni's. That way, it opened up room for more narrow quirks without having the numbers go crazy. And so my Awesome 8Q's quirk is a "Heat Reclamation System", which boosts PPC damage by 20%, while lowering PPC heat by 10%. If the Warhammer was still 20% to all energy, that would feel kind of weak, but with it reduced to 10%, the 20% for PPCs fits in nicely, and makes the Awesome the master of the PPC it should be.

Anyway, without nerfing the existing Anni one, some other things you could play with besides accuracy:
- Reduced the refire (good for Ultra-10s and 20s, though not worth much for people without HM, so meh)
- Improved Crit chance
- Push short range out further and/or boost long/max range.
- Lower the heat on ACs (essentially, a tonnage saver)
- Structure Damage, like the Gauss.. a different type of damage boost.

I kind of like the idea of having it boost all AC damage by 10% (assuming unnerfed Anni) but also buffing AC/20 long range by 60-90m, and maybe pushing out the short range by 30m more. It'd make the King Crab very appealing for AC/20'ing. Think I'll do something like that for the KC in my mod, when I get to it. Yay this thread!

If you play with the OnHit trigger thing, be aware that the game's trigger system has quirks of its own. If you limit the number of stacks, it won't overwrite the oldest with a new one. There is a flag to have new triggers extend the duration, but I'm wary of using that, for fear that it'll just add +1 tick for every hit, which I don't want either. Haven't tested it or tried to track it down in the code to see what it does, though. And it also seems to limit the stacking to 3 buffs for some reason, even though PPC debuffs can stack higher.

 

[BARBOSA (Aries)]

While i´m thrilled with the work so far, maybe it´d be better not use mechwarrior skills as quirks. I think it diminishes the mech value when you have a stable of veterans with 3 skills.

 

[whymakemedothis]

@Axterix13 I did consider some of those. Particularly extending the range of AC20's but i felt that some of the uniqueness of the King Crab's load out is that it has that scary short range firepower but is anemic at long range which can be a problem for a slow mech. Extending it's range would sort of lessen that which was something I wanted to avoid.

While i´m thrilled with the work so far, maybe it´d be better not use mechwarrior skills as quirks. I think it diminishes the mech value when you have a stable of veterans with 3 skills.

I was hesitant to use them but in the end I decided it was the best option I had. I did limit using pilot skills to light and medium mechs so they are useful before your pilots acquired those skills. Later on it allows you to use different pilots and make use of several skills together. For example with striker mechs like the Jenner you can use a pilot with coolant vent to deal with heat while still being able to shoot and scoot with ace pilot.

 

[Axterix13]

Well, I dabbled with increasing the range for the all "AC/20" type weapons, but sadly, the effect system seems to be bugged. Using LB20X as either targetWeaponType or targetAmmoCategory leads to the mech not loading properly. If you go to the mech lab, the mech will be empty, and you can't copy it either. The LB20X is listed in the WeaponSubType enum, though, so not sure why it doesn't work.

Edit: So I gave the King Crab an 8% bonus, and bumped up the Anni and Warhammer to 12%, rather than 10%. And for range, I just tried a 20/40/60m range buff (I have medium ranges modded in). Trying a 15/30/45 now, to see how that feels in comparison. Did make it for all Projectile weapons, though. Overall, I'm liking it. The extra bit of range is an appealing quirk. It doesn't make the KC a long range mech, since its range is still rather limited. And on the plus side, I could definitely see myself wanting to use a KC as a short range AC mech for that perk, so it sort of solidifies it in that short range role. But I do think it is a fine line to walk, part of why I didn't start out with a 90 max range increase, and why I'm now going to test 45m.

Oh, and as a bonus, I got the "The Deadliest Catch" achievement while testing it. =)

 

[MadCat221]

Maybe for Hunchback: negated (or drastically reduced) recoil penalty to any gun mounted in the right torso?

 

[Axterix13]

Maybe for Hunchback: negated (or drastically reduced) recoil penalty to any gun mounted in the right torso?

Unfortunately, that sort of thing* isn't doable without some serious recoding of how things work.

With the trigger system, you can pick out a certain weapon type from all the ones on a mech, but you can't specify a location. It's a bit of a shame, as for my Awesome Heat Reclamation System, what I would have liked to have done is put one in each location a PPC goes, and have it buff the PPC in that spot. But I can't, so I had to settle for a single one that buffed all PPCs on the mech.

* Except in the case of the Hunchback, which has 3 ballistic slots and they are all in the right torso, so a general buff that reduces the refire penalty for any ballistic weapon would achieve what you suggest... since that's the only place you can put the guns with a refire penalty

 

[whymakemedothis]

Maybe for Hunchback: negated (or drastically reduced) recoil penalty to any gun mounted in the right torso?

That was an option but I set several rules for myself when I started and one of them was that I would stick to a single quirk for each mech. That meant that whatever I chose had to be useful for all variants. For example that is why I didn't implement a perk for the Awesome that focused on PPC's.

 

[Axterix13]

That was an option but I set several rules for myself when I started and one of them was that I would stick to a single quirk for each mech. That meant that whatever I chose had to be useful for all variants. For example that is why I didn't implement a perk for the Awesome that focused on PPC's.

And as far as even the AC/20 HB goes, it'd also be of limited value. Without Ultras in the mix, you're looking at a 2 refire mod, max. By the time you get a HB, you most likely have enough guts to reduce that by 1. So then you're talking about a +1 bonus to hit for just AC/10s and 20s, that only applies if you fired the previous turn. Pretty weak-sauce. Overall, such a quirk would wind up being mostly for Ultra-10s and 20s, which is very narrow in scope...

So even for me, who is going a more variant dependent route, I wouldn't go above a +1 or 2 (and that is the plan for the AC/20 HB), and will need to give it something else on top of it. Much like why the official Rifleman's quirk also gives +100m sight range and halves the long range penalties for all weapons.

 

[Icewraith]

I plan to add a shoulder baffle to the Griffin’s non-weapon arm, only I was thinking of +1 pilot health (like a cockpit mod) instead of the extra armor.

I gave the Atlas a fear aura that causes enemies (within a large radius) to take -1 accuracy and +10% stability damage, and the King Crab got the opposite (+1 accuracy to allies and -10% stability damage taken).

 

[Axterix13]

I went sort of the same route for my Atlas quirk. I gave it a cockpit mod called Skull Faced Visage which provides +3 insp and 2 health, and the accuracy debuff to enemies within 300m. Had to move the heat sink out of the head for it. No doubt we're both inspired by the Kerensky quote.

 

[Winie666]

Hello!

I've been write also a mod. But yours looks better. Very nice quirks. If you want to publish on nexus, I will remove my mod. The feedback was also not so positiv.

Here my quirks, perhaps you can use it as toolbox:

Battelmaster
C3-Commando Modul
Head
+1 Laser, Missle, Balistic, +25m view all Lancemates

Cicada
Engine
CT
+1 Ini

Locust
Engine
CT
+1 Ini

Thunderbolt
Robust frame
CT
- 30% Stab Damage

Atlas
Melee Circuit
head
+60 stab Damaged ; +1 Moral

awesome
Robust frame
CT
- 30% Stab Damage

banshee
Engine
CT
+1 Ini

Blackjack
Sniper Unit
Head
+100m view, +10% called shots

Blackknight
Command Module
Head
+2 Hit Defence all Lancemates

cataphract
Robust frame
CT
- 30% Stab Damage

catapult
Targeting Computer
CT
+100m view, +2 Missle, +2 PPC

centurion
Shield
LA
-20% Damage

commando
Comannd Module
CT
-10% Damage to all Lancemates ,+1 resolve

crab
Overload-Unit
CT
+25% Large Laser Damage

dragon
Engine
CT
+1 Ini

enforcer
Cooling Jaket
LT
- 10% Weapon Heat,+ 10 Max Heat,+ 5 Overheat Threshold

firestarter
Close-Combat-Unit
CT
+90m range

grasshopper
Engine
CT
+1 Ini

griffin
Improved Cockpit
Head
+2 Hitpoints Pilot, -3 Hit Defence

highlander
Reinforced Legs
Legs
-40 DFA Damged

hunchback
Melee - Gyro
CT
+4 Melee

jagermech
Targeting Computer
Head
+100m view, +2 Missle, +2 AC

javelin
Reinforced Legs
Legs
+40 DFA Damaged

jenner
Engine
CT
+1 Ini

kingcrab
Range Extender AC20
Head
+ 90m range for AC20

kintaro
Missle - Router
CT
+20% Damage SRM

Orion
Robust frame
CT
- 30% Stab Damage

panther
Energy-Compactor
LT
+25% PPC Damage

quickdraw
Engine
TM
+1 Ini

shadowhawk
Targeting Computer
head
+100m View, +1 Missle,Balistic,Energy

spider
Engine
CT
+1 Ini

stalker
Targeting Computer
head
+100m View, +1 Missle,Balistic,Energy

trebuchet
Engine
CT
+1 Ini

Urbanmech
Robust frame
CT
- 30% Stab Damage

Victor
Engine
CT
+1 Ini

Vindicator
Cooling Jaket
LT
- 10% Weapon Heat,+ 10 Max Heat,+ 5 Overheat Threshold

wolverine
Commando-Modul
LT
+1 Moral, -20% weapon heat all lancemates

Zeus
Engine
CT
+1 Ini

we you see most Mechs have the same quirk. Little bit boring I guess. Use what ever you want:
https://www.nexusmods.com/battletech/mods/530?tab=description&BH=0

 

[Icewraith]

I went sort of the same route for my Atlas quirk. I gave it a cockpit mod called Skull Faced Visage which provides +3 insp and 2 health, and the accuracy debuff to enemies within 300m. Had to move the heat sink out of the head for it. No doubt we're both inspired by the Kerensky quote.

I add slots depending on the nature and size of the head/ct equipment. For mechs with head hardpoints I generally add a slot and fixed head equipment so you can use the hardpoint.

Is there a way to reduce the cost of morale abilities through the equipment system? Not half like high spirits, like -5 or so.

I gave the Battlemaster +1 pilot health, +3 inspiration, +50m vision, +10 head internal structure, and plan a separate -2 energy heat quirk in the CT. I try not to give more than 1 health to avoid making enemy mechs too hard to salvage via pilot damage, which encourages a Marauder-based headshot kill salvage strategy.

 

[unclecid]

been watching this thread.....and im liking parts of what each of you are doing.

maybe....the three of you combine efforts and publish on Nexus?

id get it for sure and im sure many other would too.
heck.....it might even possibly get included in some of the big mod packs...who knows.

 

[Icewraith]

been watching this thread.....and im liking parts of what each of you are doing.

maybe....the three of you combine efforts and publish on Nexus?

id get it for sure and im sure many other would too.
heck.....it might even possibly get included in some of the big mod packs...who knows.

I got kind of bogged down in 1: the medium class and 2: weapon rebalance, because the way regular and ER ++ damage bonuses stack up really affects headshot math and quirk power.

 

[Axterix13]

I add slots depending on the nature and size of the head/ct equipment. For mechs with head hardpoints I generally add a slot and fixed head equipment so you can use the hardpoint.

Problem with that for me is that it messes up the UI. So I generally avoid head equipment. And I don't like gobbling up that head spot either, as that means players can't use a cockpit. Heck, I lowered the Rifleman's vision distance buff and moved its rangefinder out of the head. But for the Atlas, the head slot just felt like the right spot to be.

Is there a way to reduce the cost of morale abilities through the equipment system? Not half like high spirits, like -5 or so.

I think that would require a dll change. Probably a postfix on initstats, to add a cost modifier (or 2, one for each ability) statCollection variable, and then using those statCollection variables wherever the cost is charged. I had to do something along those lines to give the Thunderbolt "Wet Stowage", a bit of gear that protects it from ammo explosions (in part because the AmmunitionBox value that should have worked as a workaround doesn't, due to the code using the weaponDef value rather than the statCollection one, so I figured, if I'm in there fixing that bug anyway, might as well add CanExplode to the statCollection.

maybe....the three of you combine efforts and publish on Nexus?

I don't know about combining, as, well, @whymakemedothis has all the mechs done already, while @Winie666's is already up. Plus I think each of us has slightly different ideas as to what to run with. Like for me, I'm nerfing the Anni, Warhammer, and Marauder quirks, and tweaked the Rifleman's. I'm also not averse to mine being a dll-using mod, nor for different quirks for variants. And it is all a slow process, with lots of time trying to push the limits of the system. Like this weekend, not pan out, either because the values we can set basically do nothing or because it can't be done without going deeper into the code than I want to. And so now I"m back to the drawing board for the Quickdraw, to try and come up with something to represent the lore about its actuators. Of course, sometimes things are easy, like when I took the BW's ability and applied it to all the Catapults

When I'm done, though, it'll be going up on the Nexus. But not sure when that will be. I'm 30 non-expansion chassis in, so I've got 44 of those to go, plus the Javelin. And I might rework the Anni's a bit more as well, to play with its movement speed.