MegaCorp Gestalts.

[Seaghauwn]

This is a line from the Stellaris Dev Diary #369 - 4.0 Changes: Part 3

In the future, we are also considering Megacorp Gestalt Empires, for your corporate drone needs, but whether we will have time to do that for 4.0 or later remains to be seen.

I wonder how soon if at all we could see such an empire type because I think it would be amazing especially for rogue servitors from a roleplaying perspective.

 

[Thiend]

I think it could be a perfectly good addition to Shadows of the Shroud, which would also give gestalts something new to play with in the presumed event that they don't gain access to Psionic ascension.

To be clear, I think they SHOULD have Psionic ascension, perhaps adjusted in the same way that Synthetic basically has less extreme changes than Machine ascensions do. There could be more paths added for individualist Psionic empires, which would only partially be available for gestalts, but they WOULD have it.

But with or without that, Shadows of the Shroud seems like a decent spot for it in the patch.

 

[Drachasor]

I think it could be a perfectly good addition to Shadows of the Shroud, which would also give gestalts something new to play with in the presumed event that they don't gain access to Psionic ascension.

To be clear, I think they SHOULD have Psionic ascension, perhaps adjusted in the same way that Synthetic basically has less extreme changes than Machine ascensions do. There could be more paths added for individualist Psionic empires, which would only partially be available for gestalts, but they WOULD have it.

But with or without that, Shadows of the Shroud seems like a decent spot for it in the patch.

Is there actually a lore explanation for why biological machines can get psionics but electronic machines can't? It just seems very arbitrary to me, though I admit it's a common sci-fi trope to treat biologic species as magical in this way.

Random thought: Psionic Megacorp: We're not actually psychic, we just pay shroud entities for their psychic services so we can deduct it on our taxes

 

[Thiend]

Is there actually a lore explanation for why biological machines can get psionics but electronic machines can't? It just seems very arbitrary to me, though I admit it's a common sci-fi trope to treat biologic species as magical in this way.

Random thought: Psionic Megacorp: We're not actually psychic, we just pay shroud entities for their psychic services so we can deduct it on our taxes

Well, to start with, Psionics is the ability to directly interact with the Shroud. We know that it is possible for some machines to do this, and we also know that it is impossible for most machines to do this, from various events.

There is a specific machine paragon that is the Chosen of the Shaper of Clay shroud entity. You can also do it to some extent via Nemesis. But, conversely, the reason the Contingency fails at infiltrating Psionic empires is explicitly because the machine infiltrators it sends do not have a shroud presence.

We can infer from these that
1. Machines, or possibly Gestalts, cannot normally interface with the Shroud (the core of Psionics). This seems to be because they have no souls, and it is probably all machines because empires that are Psionic act like empires that are/become machines have no souls in dialogue. Given they can literally detect something different via Psionics, this is not a dogmatic belief, it is literally true.
2. It is possible to make a machine interact with the Shroud without making it Psionic OR giving it a soul, however as it stands currently this requires either an enormous effort or the Shroud reaching out to a machine, not the machine reaching into the Shroud (as Psionic empires are capable of).

Based on the above, making machines interact with Psionics (within a Psionic empire or Gestalt machines or individualist machines) should be possible... and narratively somewhat exceptional. I wouldn't want to lock Psionic machines behind one specific origin or anything, you should be able to choose to play what you want, but narratively this should be very abnormal. Call the trait Psionic Circuitry, and it can allow machine empires to Psionically ascend while regular empires could use it to for instance give physical bodies to Shroud entities within their own empire.

Hiveminds should also gain Psionic ascension, and all three should be different from each other. The 'primary' version should be for biological empires, but machines and hives should get their own version akin to biological empires getting a Virtuality and Modularity less extreme equivalent with no Nanotech.

 

[turtleturtle111]

In the future, we are also considering Megacorp Gestalt Empires, for your corporate drone needs, but whether we will have time to do that for 4.0 or later remains to be seen.

I do wonder if they went back on this, Gestalts cannot form commercial pacts which I would have expected to be included if they later planned to add megacorps. If just Gestalt megacorps can form commercial pacts I think they would end up being massively more powerful then regular gestalt empires.

Gestalt trade is entirely out of wack at the moment.

 

[Thiend]

I do wonder if they went back on this, Gestalts cannot form commercial pacts which I would have expected to be included if they later planned to add megacorps. If just Gestalt megacorps can form commercial pacts I think they would end up being massively more powerful then regular gestalt empires.

Gestalt trade is entirely out of wack at the moment.

I think gestalt trade is off by enough that I wouldn't consider the current state evidence of... Basically anything.

I would expect a gestalt megacorp to need greatly updated trade mechanics compared to current gestalt, but I would equally expect current gestalts to need just as much work on trade regardless of getting such a megacorp option. Their trade jobs are questionable at best, their lack of commercial pacts is highly annoying, and they are still not valid targets for megacorps to put branch offices on despite now having trade.

 

[Metallichydra]

There is a specific machine paragon that is the Chosen of the Shaper of Clay shroud entity. You can also do it to some extent via Nemesis. But, conversely, the reason the Contingency fails at infiltrating Psionic empires is explicitly because the machine infiltrators it sends do not have a shroud presence.

We can infer from these that
1. Machines, or possibly Gestalts, cannot normally interface with the Shroud (the core of Psionics). This seems to be because they have no souls, and it is probably all machines because empires that are Psionic act like empires that are/become machines have no souls in dialogue. Given they can literally detect something different via Psionics, this is not a dogmatic belief, it is literally true.

From what I remember from reading the events, robots do not have souls. Robots with souls are all the work of the Animator of Clay, a shroud entity that wants to create robots with souls. The Animator of Clay is related to the composer of strands (Possible "family", as I do recall the animator referring to the composer as a sister or sibling, though not entirely sure).

 

[Thiend]

From what I remember from reading the events, robots do not have souls. Robots with souls are all the work of the Animator of Clay, a shroud entity that wants to create robots with souls. The Animator of Clay is related to the composer of strands (Possible "family", as I do recall the animator referring to the composer as a sister or sibling, though not entirely sure).

Robots being capable of Psionics but locked to a pact with the Animator of Clay (which I kept referring to as the Shaper of Clay by mistake) sounds just about right for an equivalent to the biological synthetic ascensions.

 

[Ohirra]

Gestalt Megacorps need to have a version of Worker Cooperative.

 

[Thiend]

Gestalt Megacorps need to have a version of Worker Cooperative.

I'll do you one better. That should be the default trade policy for gestalts, and getting the energy/trade split everyone else starts with should be locked behind either a tradition or being a megacorp (as in, either works).

 

[Seaghauwn]

I'll do you one better. That should be the default trade policy for gestalts, and getting the energy/trade split everyone else starts with should be locked behind either a tradition or being a megacorp (as in, either works).

since they don't utilize consumer goods (for the most part) either them starting with the worker cooperative or being able to get the policy instead of the consumer benefits trade policy just seems fitting.