But Zoroastrianism was never very widespread, and didn't expand in the manner of Christianity and Islam.
Lubricus
Lubricus
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Size isn't all that matters...the celtic religion once spanned All of western and central europe (from spain to parts of poland and denmak to italy), northern africa, and had footholds of faith in greece and western persia for a short time. Yet look at what happened to it. It was wiped out entirely and the celtic religion practiced today is a psedo version of it and only a small segment is the highlands of scottland.
The Celtic religion cannot really be compared to the large, expansionist religions of Christianity and Islam. The Celtic faiths were widespread because the Celtic _peoples_ were widespread, not because they converted other folks. And unlike the monotheistic faiths, the Celtic religion accepted that other, foreign deities could exist. They had no reason to convince others that their faiths were faulty. And it was indeed Christianity that drove the Celtic religion to extinction. The main drive behind the success of the two largest monotheistic religions lies in their centralisation, and the fact that they actively seek to expand by converting "heathens". And even Zoroastrianism, while monotheistic, has never been active when it comes to conversions. I really don't think those two cases are relevant to the possibility of destroying or mass-converting Christians or Muslims.
Lubricus
Lubricus
Well its debatable how good the 'conversions' were, espially for christianity and islam in india. Many would simply claim to worship christian god while essentially using rituals and ideas from their old religion brought over, changing names sometimes, sometimes not even that. Sometimes saying the 'Gods' in the polythestic religions were actually similar to saints or servants of Allah.
So i doubt the conversion methold is a good argument as it could be said the celtic leaders merely understood they really couldn't truly convert everyone.
So i doubt the conversion methold is a good argument as it could be said the celtic leaders merely understood they really couldn't truly convert everyone.
Well, maybe the Indian conversions didn't take, but more or less all of Africa and America have become either Christian or Muslim over the years. There are almost two billion adherents to these two religions around the world. Sure, both faiths have absorbed previously pagan elements, but that doesn't mean the conversions didn't last. How many Europeans practise the ancient faiths today? A handful at best.
Lubricus
while not a majority or widespread, many still practice it either openly (very rarely...these are usually rebirths like Celtic religion) or more likely covertly through pratices that claim to be christian, but are so pretty much all-but so in name...there are greeks who still worship the 'old gods/goddesses' but in the guise of them being servants of God, like in-betweens who represent his various personalities.
That's exactly how conversions work! It's not like those greeks regard themselves as non-Christians who fool the system - they are merely Christians with a slightly different outlook. The very strength of the largest religions is their ability to absorb elements from other faiths. That does not make the conversion any less valid.
Lubricus
While i agree its like that today, for a long time it wasn't like that. instead it was merely a covering for them...but even putting that aside, you run into a paradoxical situation if you say that when christians take the ideas of other religions, which was quite common, (fe Christmas) then you'd be saying that christians are converting to the other religions, which i am sure you don't want to say.
Nor, I'm not saying that. The basic tenets of their religion (one almighty god, the holy spirit etc.) are there, the elements gotten from pagan faiths form the daily practises of the newly converted. That's what causes all the different variations of the religion. Would you say that the Coptic Church, which shows clear elements of Eastern African spiritism, is not Christian? The Copts themselves certainly wouldn't.
Lubricus
Lubricus
What about a Jewish revolt in Jerusalem that creates a Jewish state? That would incorporate the three monotheistic religions in their struggle for "The Holy Land" IT would make that province far more contentious than Rome (Catholic only) Mecca (Islam only) and Constantinople (Christian/ISlam)
A nice idea, but there were not many Jews in the area at that time, and thers's no way to add a new religion.
I think AGC has some events like this...
I think AGC has some events like this...
Actually during this time there were a fairly large number of Jews residing in Jerusalem so technically he's right. Personally, I do agree with his idea of a Jewish revolution that ultimately leads to the creation of a Jewish state. Besides there must be a way to make a Jewish religion in the game.
No, there isn't.
The only way would be to remove an existing one and change the name (which would be silly)
The only way would be to remove an existing one and change the name (which would be silly)
Well, it wouldn't hurt to do a mod w/ one religion changed to facilitate this event. If the game is Mid East centered, then changing one of the various European-Christianities could accomplish this. Counter-Reform Catholics do not, to me, serve a very important role in the game (I know I will be told the 1000 reasons that I am wrong quite soon). This could be changed to allow for those who want a major Mid-East/Religious Crusade/Jihad situation to blow up all over the place!!!
It would make sense to have a HUGE bonus if the Jews have a nation containing Jerusalem...the writings of the Jews place supreme importance on making a trip to Jerusalem much like the Muslims feel toward Mecca and the Catholics toward Rome. The difference is that the Jews, historically, sought to mainatain access to, and rights w/in, Jerusalem so they could continue their religious studies in their holiest city. Therefore the Jews should actually have a better relationship w/ what ever Nation & Religion is in control of Jerusalem, - instead of the intuitive reverse.
It would make sense to have a HUGE bonus if the Jews have a nation containing Jerusalem...the writings of the Jews place supreme importance on making a trip to Jerusalem much like the Muslims feel toward Mecca and the Catholics toward Rome. The difference is that the Jews, historically, sought to mainatain access to, and rights w/in, Jerusalem so they could continue their religious studies in their holiest city. Therefore the Jews should actually have a better relationship w/ what ever Nation & Religion is in control of Jerusalem, - instead of the intuitive reverse.
After the Romans expelled the Jews in first century AD, the worlds Jewish population was pretty scattered. If a Jewish state were formed in the Jerusalem area, it would probably be even less popular in the region than the current state. Unless there was an influx of Jews from other countries (like the one following the creation of Israel), the Jews would be a very small minority, hardly likely to stay in power for long. I'm sure that there were Jews in Jerusalem, but the area around the city was firmly Arab for the EU 2 timeperiod.
As for making a Jewish religion, there are several problems with this...
1. The Jewish religion did not hold a majority in any EU 2 province in the time period.
2. Judaism does not engage in missionary activities.
3. If you used the counter-reform religion to make Judaism, all the people would just be converted to Catholocism.
Yor are 100% right that the Romans did expell the Jews out of Jerusalem but after the fall of the Roman Empire (both Eastern and Western) Jews began to re-settle in Jerusalem. In fact the Ottoman Empire allowed them to no questions asked. They even let them have religious freedom so long as the Jews paid a little bit more in taxes to the Ottoman Empire. If I'm not mistaken, the time when EU 2 takes place, the Ottoman Empire is in existance. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to argue or anything I just want to make sure that were not omitting or overlooking anything.
The jews were certainly not a majority in Judea at the time, but they were AFAIK a significant minority (at least at the time of the Crusades)
This is a wrong analysis. The Muslims do not worship the black rock of the Kabba. They worship Allah. The prayers that face towards the Kabba is only symbolic for them. If it were destroyed, they wont lose faith in their religion. Who cares. Allah and their prophet told them DO NOT PRAY TO IDOLS AND OBJECTS anyways.
The Kabba is nothing more than an idol or object to which prayers to Allah are directed to. It is not a required existence for Islam.
Thus your suggestion is flawed. This is about as silly as saying that Catholics will all lose faith and all convert to Atheism or Wiccan if Saint Peter's Basilica was destroyed or the Pope was assasinated.
-50 relations with other Muslims?Shouldn't it be more like -400 and evey muslim country gets a cb on u?