Mercenaries upfront cost reversed

[IsaacCAT]

After reading about the end of the First Punic war and the mutiny of mercenaries employed by Carthago when they were not paid after disbanded, I thought this should be added to the game.

Mercs should not be paid a lump sum upfront but after disbanded. If the lumpsum is not satisfied, mercs would attack the player instead and sack cities to get its payment. The normal monthly wage should remain.

In 2.0.2 mercs are not payed when disbanded and only when hired. It should be reversed.

 

[Hannibal_theCannibal]

After reading about the end of the First Punic war and the mutiny of mercenaries employed by Carthago when they were not paid after disbanded, I thought this should be added to the game.

Mercs should not be paid a lump sum upfront but after disbanded. If the lumpsum is not satisfied, mercs would attack the player instead and sack cities to get its payment. The normal monthly wage should remain.

In 2.0.2 mercs are not payed when disbanded and only when hired. It should be reversed.

Love it. Maybe it's a bit of both? Contract = X. Upfront down payment = 0.2 * X, Rest due on end of contract + Ongoing maintenance.

Hitching onto this comment to discuss something in another thread, the hiring cost of the mercenary should not be floor = 100 ducats. It should be something like:

Base Mercenary Cost = 5*Cohort size + Martial Ability of General / 4 * Cohort Size

• 4 troop merc with 10 martial general= 30 ducats
• 12 cohort merc with 10 martial general= 90 ducats
• 25 cohort merc with 10 martial general= 187.5 ducats

Obviously the numbers could be played with but generally speaking, the cost of the merc should be scalable to the size of the army and the ability of the general. If you had a scaling base cost, you could also do cheeky stuff like Increase the cost of the merc company depending on the traits of the general. Like Base Cost * 1.10 if they are greedy, crafty, arrogant, or corrupt. Something like that.

 

[IsaacCAT]

Love it. Maybe it's a bit of both? Contract = X. Upfront down payment = 0.2 * X, Rest due on end of contract + Ongoing maintenance.

Hitching onto this comment to discuss something in another thread, the hiring cost of the mercenary should not be floor = 100 ducats. It should be something like:

Base Mercenary Cost = 5*Cohort size + Martial Ability of General / 4 * Cohort Size

• 4 troop merc with 10 martial general= 30 ducats
• 12 cohort merc with 10 martial general= 90 ducats
• 25 cohort merc with 10 martial general= 187.5 ducats

Obviously the numbers could be played with but generally speaking, the cost of the merc should be scalable to the size of the army and the ability of the general. If you had a scaling base cost, you could also do cheeky stuff like Increase the cost of the merc company depending on the traits of the general. Like Base Cost * 1.10 if they are greedy, crafty, arrogant, or corrupt. Something like that.

I would argue that the cost of the merc army shall take into account who is hiring it and its purchase power. You can negotiate higher salaries from Seleukos than from a tribe.

 

[MatthewP]

Seems somewhat exploitable though. If the player can just choose to not pay and the mercenaries turn hostile, don’t you just have a perfect counter stack sitting in their province? I like the idea but it needs to be implemented in such a way that this isn’t possible.

 

[IsaacCAT]

Seems somewhat exploitable though. If the player can just choose to not pay and the mercenaries turn hostile, don’t you just have a perfect counter stack sitting in their province? I like the idea but it needs to be implemented in such a way that this isn’t possible.

Normally you use mercs to have an edge in otherwise difficult wars. If after the war you can cheat your mercs and kill them, great for you. The game should ban you for life of your ruler to hire those mercs again.

 

[Limbojack]

I like the sound of this. It would help soothe the rebellious tribal players, and it's a good idea considering how they've implemented a cap on how many mercs you can hire. It's a definite go from me.

 

[MatthewP]

Normally you use mercs to have an edge in otherwise difficult wars. If after the war you can cheat your mercs and kill them, great for you. The game should ban you for life of your ruler to hire those mercs again.

If you replace “those mercs” (who btw are dead) with “mercs”, then it seems balanced. Maybe a much higher cost (assuming some cost is upfront) instead of a complete ban. In a republic I’d think you’d tie it to something besides the ruler but that’s a detail.

 

[IsaacCAT]

(who btw are dead)

You defeat them to desist to plunder to be paid, no need to make a pogrom of those mercs.

But agree with your point.

 

[Nostalgium]

I agree with this, but when you say "lump sum not satisfied", do you mean "if you dip into the negative", or "disbanding them should prompt an event where you can opt to pay or not"? Because currently, it is literally impossible to not afford something in I:R - it's just about how long you have to sit on your hands to get out of deficit afterwards.

 

[IsaacCAT]

I agree with this, but when you say "lump sum not satisfied", do you mean "if you dip into the negative", or "disbanding them should prompt an event where you can opt to pay or not"? Because currently, it is literally impossible to not afford something in I:R - it's just about how long you have to sit on your hands to get out of deficit afterwards.

Good question. For the game flow I would rather make it automatic. But having a negotation with the mercs could be immersive too. The options could be: money, land or nothing. You could grant them land and allow them to form an independent state, for example.

 

[IsaacCAT]

Some players can try to game this by killing the mercs before they have to pay them. Transporting them to an island and declaring war so they cannot retire and stack wipe.

For this reason, mercs armies casualties should have an effect on future mercs employment. Mercs need a guild to defend their rights!!!

 

[IsaacCAT]

I would argue that the cost of the merc army shall take into account who is hiring it and its purchase power. You can negotiate higher salaries from Seleukos than from a tribe.

It seems they had the same idea but implemented it in another game altogether!

The dynamic price will make it easier for lower tier realms to rely on Mercenaries and fight back their bigger neighbours. And it will be harder for extremely rich emperors to deny access to mercenaries by hiring all of them for a small sum. After all, why would the Count of Ulster be expected to pay the same price as the Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire - if you're a mercenary captain and you see that your client clearly is rich, you might just increase your prices...