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unmerged(1693)

Corporal
Mar 10, 2001
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I am getting really tired of the mighty fortresses that pop up in the mid-1700's. I haven't figured out what ration of attacker vs. defending guns and troops it takes to take one of the mighty fortresses down. Does anyone know? Late in the game it's almost not worth going to war as it can take years to bring down a fortresses (especially in bad terrain). My siege of Mobile lasted almost 4 years and countless lives lost to attrition. Late in the game, the only provinces worth attacking are lightly defended colonies (many of those have mighty fortresses too) or trade posts. Thoughts???

Kane
 
Surely countries in real history didn't fortify EVERY SINGLE CITY with a mighty fortress

I think in a new patch or something the AI should only heavily fortify strategically important provinces.
 
No, you are probably right about that ;) At the same time, though, They DID fortify any places that were hotly contested-and that includes most of the places you would be siegeing, I would think...
 
Any solution to the Mighty Fortress Problem has to be two-fold. On the one hand, it has to reflect the real costs of the big forts: not only were the construction costs astronomical, they tied up huge numbers of expensive cannon and munitions to keep them stocked for a siege. On the other hand, the costs were not so high that in some regions of Europe, most notably northern France, Belgium and southern Netherlands, virtually every town of any size was heavily fortified. The Duke of Marlborough, fighting in that area 1702 - 1710, fought four major battles and conducted over 100 sieges, just to give you an idea.
Most importantly, the biggest fortresses were almost impossible to build out in the colonies. reason: the ordinarily high costs were even higher, because there wasn't a nice rich city sitting inside the fort to pay for a lot of the construction. In France, for instance, not only did many towns subscribe to bonds to pay for building and upgrading their own protection, but the skilled labor (masons, carpenters, miners, etc) and materials were much more readily available. The same scale of fortification out in the howling wilderness of North America was practically impossible, and so only a few relatively small (by European standards) fortifications appear: Louisbourg, Ticonderoga, St Augustine, most of the rest being earthworks and palisades with little masonry at all...
Someone already made a great suggestion in another thread (take a bow, whoever you are): each level of fortification would cost 100 ducats x Fort Level, so that Level 3 would cost 300, level 4 = 400, etc. I'd add one more thing: in a province with only a colonial city or its equivalent size population the cost would double. This would make the Really Big Fort prohibitively expensive in sparsely populated areas, as they historically were.
 
I like the logic on increasing the cost of fortifications by level and making it much more expensive in building them in the colonies. However, I think your costs are still too low. Late in the game, a human player normally is floating in ducats and can still afford to build fortresses in every province. One possibility, have the player pay 100 ducats * fortification cost plus pay for the additional troops and artillery in the fortress. I don't remember how many troops a level 4 fortress has, but if (for example) level 4 has 30,000 troops and 30 guns and a mighty has 50,000 troops and 50 guns, the player would pay 500 ducats for the base fortification (level 5 * 100) and then have to pay for the additional 20,000 troops and 20 guns. For most countries the extra troops and guns would cost just shy of 1,000 ducats, making the total cost to the player right around 1,500 ducats. That sounds about right to me, especially since a manufactory costs about the same.

Kane
 
I noticed in the mid 1700s, Turkey, Persia, and Austria have Mighty Fortresses in EVERY SINGLE province they own. I thought this was something I was doing (my Russia has been very naughty), but now I see that it seems to be standard procedure for the AI. Oh well! They certainly deterred me from wanting to war with them.
 
Yes, the release version of Imperialism II had the same problem...too many forts too early and the game stagnated. The last patch provided an option that greatly increased the costs of the higher level forts. IMO, that was the best change they could have made. It completely changed the feel of the late game from tedium and 'mexican standoff' to one of simulating the wars and campaigns that actually took place. Of course, Imp2 ended some time in the 1880's so the entire Napoleonic Era was modeled too (albeit abstractly).

So, yes, I definately support any increase in the cost of the upper level forts.

Talenn