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King John

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Mar 22, 2003
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Some people have been curious about how this works. I hope this will be helpful.

In military tradition rules, in order to make war more rewarding, the quality of your random leaders is determined by how many wars you fight, and whether you win those wars. So if you're one of the only warlike players in a game of powertechers, it will actually help you as your leaders will generally be superior to more peaceful players, giving you a strong edge. Conversely, if you're one of the few peaceful players in a warlike game, you're more likely to be forced out of your shell. Of course there are still great material benefits to playing an eco game, but MT balances this out by rewarding those who take the war path in a material, realistic way as well.

How it works exactly is this: For the first war of every session, you gain one point. For every other war, you gain .5 of a point. For every war you win, you gain another .5. My definition of a war is every conflict between two countries, so if France is at war with an alliance of Spain and Austria, it counts as two wars for France, 1 point for one of them, and .5 for the other, giving France 1.5 points so far. If France lost land to Spain but gained land from Austria, the French player would recieve another .5 for winning one of the wars. There's no penalty for losing a war.

After having concluded its wars with the Hapsburgs, France has 2 points. Assuming no other wars were fought involving France, it would then have a potential of getting leaders with 9 total stats. 7 of that comes from your default value, the base that MT points build upon. MT points are always added to this for the total score. Now if the generator happened to generate a 444 leader, having a total value of 12 points, 3 points would have to be taken off, because France's score of 9 would be that much lower. Tonio's leader generator handles this automatically, and randomizes which points are taken off. If you were using a different generator, you'd have to subtract points manually in the save. Doing it this way, it's best to just take the points off evenly, and in order from maneuver, fire, shock, and seige, alternating which you start with for every subsequent leader, so the first would start down the line with maneuver, then starting with fire on the next leader and so on. But as I said, Tonio's generator handles it automatically :).

To keep points relevant, to ensure that there continues to be disparity between nations, without everyone getting a score higher than is necessary for the maximum potential random leader stats, it's necessary to subtract points regularly. My way of doing it is to take 1/2 off everyone's score on every other session. In a really warlike game, it might even be a good idea to do this every session.

Here's one session's MT scores from WAR, to help illustrate score keeping.

King John said:
MT 1640

France 6.75* (.75 decrease)

(-3.75 degradation)
(1 for war with Russia)
(.5 + .5 for victory over Spain)
(.5 + .5 for victory over Austria)

Austria 9* (1 decrease)


(-5 degradation)
(1 + .5 for victory over Russia)
(.5 + .5 for victory over Brandenburg)
(.5 for war with France)
(.5 for 2nd war with Brandenburg)
(.5 for war with Sweden)

Spain 4.5* (1.5 decrease)

(-3 degradation)
(.5 for victory over England- carried from previous session)
(1 for war with France)

England 2.875 (2.875 decrease)

(-2.875 degradation)


Sweden 5.5* (1.5 increase)

(-2 degradation)
(.5 for victory over England carried from previous session)
(1 + .5 for victory over Portugal)
(.5 + .5 for 2nd victory over Portugal)
(.5 for war with Austria)

Russia 3.875* (.875 decrease)

(-2.375 degradation)
(1 for war with France)
(.5 for war with Austria)

Brandenburg 3.75* (.25 increase)

(-1.75 degradation)
(1 for 1st war with Aus)
(.5 + .5 for victory over Aus)

Portugal 2.25* (.75 increase)

(-.75 degradation)
(1 for first war with Swe)
(.5 for 2nd war with Swe)


Ottoman Empire 1.625 (1.625 decrease)

(-1.625 degradation)

The degradation is taken from the points a player had at the start of the session, before any of these wars were fought. So if you had 7.5 before the last session, you would get -3.75 before adding points for wars done during that session.
 
John, playing one of last games, i came to subjective decision that certain country should earn a lot of MT points, if they would be awarded. The country often won against odds and several neighbors, when was dowed.

But i found out that according MT gangbangers, who are sure to make a decision to dow to make the gangbang, are awarded more than the victim, even if they fail. I think that is against spirit of MT and what you intended to. That even provocate to gangbang and multiplie dowing of the same country.

What do you think ?
 
Perhaps bonuses should be linked the the number of NATIONS you fight as well as number of wars. After all a nations armies would learn more from fighting a variety of enemies. Armies often picked up new things from the people they fought.
 
cheech said:
Perhaps bonuses should be linked the the number of NATIONS you fight as well as number of wars. After all a nations armies would learn more from fighting a variety of enemies. Armies often picked up new things from the people they fought.

Wouldn't that mean that the strongest nation (which tend to fight several nations together more often) get more MT points and hence stay stronger?
 
Wouldn't that mean that the strongest nation (which tend to fight several nations together more often) get more MT points and hence stay stronger?

I did think of this but no system is perfect. You could again complicate it smore by assigning points depending on the power of the nations you fight.

I think you have to take this into account though. Perhaps combat kills/losses would reflect the scale of the war better?
 
Tonioz said:
John, playing one of last games, i came to subjective decision that certain country should earn a lot of MT points, if they would be awarded. The country often won against odds and several neighbors, when was dowed.

But i found out that according MT gangbangers, who are sure to make a decision to dow to make the gangbang, are awarded more than the victim, even if they fail. I think that is against spirit of MT and what you intended to. That even provocate to gangbang and multiplie dowing of the same country.

What do you think ?

Actually, it works the way you suggested, with a country getting points for every country it fights. Every single 1v1, even if you have 3 countries fighting 1, counts as a seperate war, so it would be as though the gangbanged fought multiple wars, while the gangbangers would only be fighting one war. Sorry this wasn't better clarified in the first post.
 
FAL said:
Wouldn't that mean that the strongest nation (which tend to fight several nations together more often) get more MT points and hence stay stronger?


Yes, France and Austria especially seem to get the most parts. But, that keeps it more or less historical doesn't it? Austria and France and countries like Prussia, Russia, Sweden and England had some of the strongest leadership in real life, and I think it really had a lot to do with how many wars they fought. It would arguably be more realistic and certainly more historical if these nations maintained this advantage, by not giving nations like Portugal, Venice or Denmark fake boosts to keep them on par with the majors.

The nice thing is that it is still possible to have some awesome leaders with the minor countries, but you just have to work harder for it. It's an uphill battle just like turning them into major powers is in the first place. Another option might be allowing purchase of MT points, to reflect extensive training.
 
King John said:
Yes, France and Austria especially seem to get the most parts. But, that keeps it more or less historical doesn't it? Austria and France and countries like Prussia, Russia, Sweden and England had some of the strongest leadership in real life, and I think it really had a lot to do with how many wars they fought. It would arguably be more realistic and certainly more historical if these nations maintained this advantage, by not giving nations like Portugal, Venice or Denmark fake boosts to keep them on par with the majors.

The nice thing is that it is still possible to have some awesome leaders with the minor countries, but you just have to work harder for it. It's an uphill battle just like turning them into major powers is in the first place. Another option might be allowing purchase of MT points, to reflect extensive training.

That is a valid point, but in turn i would do away completely with the historical leaders. This way you would have to earn your leadership bonus and are not getting it for free.
 
Waldzwerg said:
That is a valid point, but in turn i would do away completely with the historical leaders. This way you would have to earn your leadership bonus and are not getting it for free.

You could also just decrease historical leader stats dependent on how many points people have.
 
King John said:
Actually, it works the way you suggested, with a country getting points for every country it fights. Every single 1v1, even if you have 3 countries fighting 1, counts as a seperate war, so it would be as though the gangbanged fought multiple wars, while the gangbangers would only be fighting one war. Sorry this wasn't better clarified in the first post.

nono, attackers receives 3 points as min, defender - 1,5 points as max :)
but usually bangs are successful, so redestribution means 4,5 vs 0 :mad:
 
SO john what do i get for last sessions sunday game. I war v england + 1 war v austria brand + 1 war v china. 3 sep wars right?
 
cheech said:
SO john what do i get for last sessions sunday game. I war v england + 1 war v austria brand + 1 war v china. 3 sep wars right?

No. You warred four countries, so you get four wars. 1 point for the first one, and .5 for all the others, and another .5 for each one you defeated.


Tonio, the attackers have to divide their points with each other. If you counted them all together then sure they would have more points, but they have to be concentrated for someone to be able to get good leaders.