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Mobilization of indirect vassals

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Meldokios

Meldokios

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Mar 28, 2006
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You can force-mobilize your indirect vassals (your duke's counts) as a king, without any penalty for yourself. They might lose loyalty when you do so, but that's towards their liege which is your duke, not you.
The problem is that ai controlled kings NEVER mobilize them. Take france for example, about 2/3 of the french lands in the 1066 scenario are controlled by indirect counts. The king never bothers to call them to arms, even if he's losing a war.

So, do you consider that to be an exploit?

And, is there any way to discourage the player from mobilizing indirect vassals through event scripting?
 
Meldokios said:
You can force-mobilize your indirect vassals (your duke's counts) as a king, without any penalty for yourself. They might lose loyalty when you do so, but that's towards their liege which is your duke, not you.
The problem is that ai controlled kings NEVER mobilize them. Take france for example, about 2/3 of the french lands in the 1066 scenario are controlled by indirect counts. The king never bothers to call them to arms, even if he's losing a war.

So, do you consider that to be an exploit?
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No, since AI vassals will eventually DoW their liege's enemy directly anyway. And the AI tends to group all his forces in one province anyway, where they die off of attrition before he finally gets around to moving them.

And, is there any way to discourage the player from mobilizing indirect vassals through event scripting?
Click to expand...
Not possible nor wanted. It is already a penalty for the player since he has to pay for troop upkeep.
 
jordarkelf said:
No, since AI vassals will eventually DoW their liege's enemy directly anyway. And the AI tends to group all his forces in one province anyway, where they die off of attrition before he finally gets around to moving them.
Click to expand...
Hm... That may be the case with religious wars, where no claims are needed to DoW. But what about wars between christian kings?
The attrition thing seems like a valid point, but still, regiments sitting idle are not the best solution to that...

Not possible nor wanted. It is already a penalty for the player since he has to pay for troop upkeep.
Click to expand...
Just tested that, and no, I don't pay them anything at all. Their poor little count pays all the upkeep. :eek: In CK+DV at least...
 
While you don't pay upkeep, I am almost positive that every time you mobilize a vassal's troops, they take a loyalty hit.
 
Hawkeye1489 said:
While you don't pay upkeep, I am almost positive that every time you mobilize a vassal's troops, they take a loyalty hit.
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Yes, they take a 20 point reduction in loyalty per province they own. If you mobilize all of your personal demesne troops, it's only a 10 point reduction. This is only for a force-mobilize, if you do a grand-mobilization, there is no penalty if they agree (if they refuse, I think they lose 20 points plus you get a claim on their titles). There is no way to ask a sub-vassal to mobilize directly. When you need troops in a hurry (or just don't wish to do a grand-mobilization or don't want to wait), the loyalty drop is worth it. It all depends on how many troops you need and where you need them from.
 
I've managed to mobilize sub-vassals directly by going to their province screen and clicking on the troop icon in the province improvement screen. It doesn't matter how much their duke hates you (his liege), as long as the counts are loyal to the duke, you can always mobilize the counts' troops.

It is a bit of an exploit.
 
Snaake said:
I've managed to mobilize sub-vassals directly by going to their province screen and clicking on the troop icon in the province improvement screen. It doesn't matter how much their duke hates you (his liege), as long as the counts are loyal to the duke, you can always mobilize the counts' troops.

It is a bit of an exploit.
Click to expand...

Yes, but I was referring to asking your Sub-vassals to raise their troops, the same as you would ask your direct vassals, to get the no-loyalty (hopefully) hit.

GJScarritt said:
There is no way to ask a sub-vassal to mobilize directly.
Click to expand...
 
I always just mobilize the Duke. I'm not sure I'd want to do it the other way, it really doesn't make much since. But I suppose its a bigger penalty that the player can go bankrupt from upkeep, but the AI cannot.
 
But when you force mobilize an indirect vassal, the loyalty hit he gets is towards HIS liege, not you. So you won't ever get realm duress from pissing them off -there's nothing to risk. This tactic can even be useful if you want to destabilize one of your powerful rebelious dukes.

And even if you're a miserable excommunicated schizo and everyone in the realm hates you, you can still mobilize your indirect counts as long as they are at good terms with their own lieges.

I'm not sure how historical and realistic that situation is, but it sure seems weird gameplay-wise, especially since the AI never uses this tactic...
 
jordarkelf said:
You can't do that. The only way to get troops from counts under dukes (as a king) is to do a grand mobilization, which is not force mobilizing.
You can only force your direct duke or count vassals to mobilize.
Click to expand...

No, you can mobilize regiments of vassals and sub-vassals in the province-screen = force-mobilizing.
 
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