[Mod] Byzantine Project

[andrefortes]

The purpose of the Byzantine Project is to remove the Latin flavour from the Byzantine Empire and the restored Roman Empire. For some reason, Paradox seems to think that by restoring the Roman Empire, the Romans (Greeks) would suddenly drop centuries of cultural progress and start to embrace the trappings of a dead and obsolete Latin culture.

As such, the "Latin-ness" of the Roman Empire is now restricted to a new title created when you enact the Roman Renaissance decision, which remains mostly unchanged by this mod (other than the fact that only a lunatic can do it).

Spoiler: Main Features

*Attempted removal of Latin-based features of the Legacy of Rome expansion, restricting these to a post-Roman Renaissance empire.

*Fourteen new minor titles for the Byzantine and the Roman Empire, six of these restricted to eunuchs.

*New decision to employ a eunuch.

*New "Autokrator" trait for the the ruler of either the Byzantine Empire or the restored Roman Empire.

*Augustus trait is now restricted to a Latin-cultured Roman Empire (e_roman_empire_lat), as serves as the Latin counterpart of the Autokrator trait.

The new minor titles are also available for "e_roman_empire_lat", which may change in future releases of the mod.

Spoiler: The mod alters the following files:

*common/artifacts/00_artifacts.txt
*common/cb_types/00_cb_types.txt
*common/cb_types/01_cb_types.txt
*common/government_flavor/00_government_flavor.txt
*common/governments/feudal_governments.txt
*common/landed_titles/landed_titles.txt
*common/laws/succession_laws.txt
*common/laws/ze_council_power_laws.txt
*common/objectives/00_factions.txt
*common/minor_titles/00_minor_titles.txt
*common/scripted_effects/00_scripted_effects.txt
*common/scripted_triggers/00_scripted_triggers.txt
*common/succession_voting/01_succession_voting_specials.txt

*decisions/conversion_decisions.txt
*decisions/HFP_realm_decisions.txt
*decisions/realm_decisions.txt

*events/byzantine_events.txt
*events/hashshashin_order_events.txt
*events/HF_baptism_events.txt
*events/HF_bloodline_events.txt
*events/HF_coronation_events.txt
*events/hippodrome_events.txt
*events/religious_events.txt
*events/roman_events.txt
*events/schism_events.txt

*gfx/flags/e_roman_empire.tga

*history/characters/armenian.txt
*history/characters/greek.txt
*history/characters/roman.txt

*localisation/HolyFury.csv
*localisation/LegacyOfRome.csv

Spoiler: Possible Questions & Answers:

Q: Why is the Roman Empire's flag the same as the Byzantine Empire?
A: The "restored" Roman Empire now keeps e_byzantium's flag, as the one that came with the Legacy of Rome is too Latin-centric. Instead, that one is used for a post-Roman Renaissance empire title that is created when that decision is enacted.

Q: Where's the Roman Renaissance decision?
A: Considering what this decision is supposed to represent, it is now only available to characters with the Lunatic trait.

Q: Why can't I move my capital to Rome?
A: Because that decision has been restricted to the mod's e_roman_empire_latin title, created when you enact the Roman Renaissance decision.

Q: Can I make a compatibility sub-mod for [insert mod name here]?
A: Sure!

Q: Can I include this in my mod?
A: In principle yes, but send me a PM first. And remember to give credit where it's due.

The mod is compatible with the 3.2.1 version of Crusader Kings II.

Many thanks to Korba for the Icon Templates!

 

[andrefortes]

Well, they don't. If you look at the codes, Greek characters are far less likely to convert to "Roman" culture. Where I live, i.e. Muslim majority country, what Western people call medieval "Byzantines" is simply called East Romans/Rum, because that's what they called themselves and that there's political continuity since Caesar. Greece/Yunani is usually used for the ancient collection of Hellenic city-states, and the kingdom carved from the bowels of the Ottoman Empire. So it makes a lot of sense to me.

As I understand it, we players symbolically try to bridge the cultural gap between the medieval, Greek cultured Roman Empire and the Latin world by standardising and promoting the proper Latin "Roman" culture (thanks to the resource of a restored empire) in the western part of the empire. Hence the easier conversion from Italian and such to Roman. Mini-renaissance of sorts, using fancy old terms to introduce "Byzantine" ideas.

It is simply affirming the duality of the Roman Empire's nature. Had Justinian successfully renovated the empire, I am sure he or his descendants would force the Latin "Romans" to follow the Eastern, "Byzantine" ways. Thus we have to mend the schism too in this game.

I just wish we don't have to go through the hassle of moving the capital just to move it back to Constantinople some decades later as any sensible player will do. Now that's strategically stupid.

I get what you are saying. The problem is that the Roman Renaissance decision is literally embracing the old Latin-speaking culture, and not the opposite. It's not affirming Greek (Rhomaioi) culture as Roman but reviving a dead culture, and by doing so admitting that the westerners were right all along.

 

[andrefortes]

It’s not as much reviving as it is about putting the Latin world in the Roman direction, using Latin to convey Byzantine ideas. Just look at the cultures that will easily convert to Roman. Certainly not “Greek”. East Romans, if one wants to be precise. If you are insecure about the Romanity of the Byzantines, you can mod every mention of them into “East Romans”.

That kind of chauvinist attitude is exactly why the later Byzantines, especially post Komnenian era were often seen as stagnating and xenophobic instead of adapting to new situations. How do you ingrain to those “westerners” the concept of tagmata, themata, exarchate, and so on, if you deny them Roman identity unless they speak Greek natively? That’s the same stupid thing some western historians thought about what Roman identity was, only they thought it should be Latin instead.

You seem to misunderstand this as a Latin renaissance instead of a Roman renaissance in the West by the leadership of East Romans, using good Latin as , as it has always been in the West. You are not going to see the East converting to Latin “Roman” culture. Just look at the codes and tell me I’m wrong. Your Byzantine/East Roman vassals are not going to convert to Latin “Roman” culture, in fact they are very unlikely to do so. If you look at the label of the culture group, you can clearly see that one is based on a lingua franca (Latin), and the other is based on the political-cultural sphere encompassing longstanding ethnic groups. East Roman, that is, who spoke Greek as lingua franca.

Do you know why the Byzantines decided to abandon Latin as an official language? Do you think it’s simply because Greek “Rhomaioi” culture was superior? Now I ask you to look at this factually, and realistically if your character is to be the second coming of Justinian.

But it is reviving it. Greeks title are replaced by Latin titles, and so are the clothes, these being taken directly from the early empire, in what can be described as an attempt at LARPing as late Republic/early Empire Romans. These are Greeks, not Italians. They know that they are Roman, and that their culture and lifestyle is Roman. Everything non-Rhomaioi is barbaric to them. And how do you ingrain to the "westerners" those concepts you mentioned? Well, the same way the late Republic and early Empire Romans did to the population of the territories they conquered.

The aristocracy, the army, and the people themselves wouldn't take kindly to an emperor turning his back on them to support the Latins instead. This would likely lead to either a civil war or assassination. And if there's one thing that Byzantium doesn't lack, is nobles and generals with their eyes on the imperial throne, and bureaucrats eager to assist them.

On the matter of the lingua franca - it was Greek. At least on the part of the empire that mattered the most. The east was always the richest region of the Empire, and most if its inhabitants spoke either Greek or a language heavily influenced by Greek, not to mention the culture. Even Italy was very Greek influenced, especially the region of Magna Graecia. Not to mention the upper classes made use of Greeks to educate their children, who would in turn use other Greeks to educate their own children, and so forth.

There were quite a few emperors who saw Greeks as superior to Latins, such as Hadrian. But the abandonment of latin as the official language was not sudden. Most Latin documents in the East had been translated into Greek as early as 100 AD, and this characteristic of the eastern bureaucracy never changed, despite some failed attempts. Greek was already the de facto language of the empire, and Heraclius simply made it de jure. His possible Armenian origin may have also influenced this.

 

[andrefortes]

Uploaded an hotfix for the mod, fixing an issue which prevented the attribution of the Autokrator trait.

 

[Requete]

The fact that rebuild Roman Empire somehow ends up with Togas, Laurel Crowns and Pagan Flag (Eagle was bird of Jupiter/Zeus) was always baffling for me. So Kudos for this mod. As to Roman becoming capital again well that could happen if somehow Turks took Constantinople after Romans retook Rome but even then The Romans would wear modern armors and clothes and not LARP Agustus and Caesar, Latin was however the Lingua Franca of the west so the new Titles would have to be translated onto Latin, Problem is that in mid VIII century the west and east were so estranged Pope decided to crown Frank barbaroi as Emperor only 31 years after earliest mark of game and most of western elites seen themselves as either Arabs or Franks and no longer Romans, not all which is westerners fault as Constantinople failed to defend Ravenna (Eastern Themes were seen as much more important) and embraced Iconoclast heresy. Justinian really should make Belisarius his co-emperor in west this would give Romans of west stake and representation in government.

P.S. what happened to mod file? tried to DL but got file is not here error.

 

[andrefortes]

The fact that rebuild Roman Empire somehow ends up with Togas, Laurel Crowns and Pagan Flag (Eagle was bird of Jupiter/Zeus) was always baffling for me. So Kudos for this mod. As to Roman becoming capital again well that could happen if somehow Turks took Constantinople after Romans retook Rome but even then The Romans would wear modern armors and clothes and not LARP Agustus and Caesar, Latin was however the Lingua Franca of the west so the new Titles would have to be translated onto Latin, Problem is that in mid VIII century the west and east were so estranged Pope decided to crown Frank barbaroi as Emperor and most of western elites seen themselves as either Arabs or Franks and no longer Romans, not all which is westerners fault as Constantinople failed to defend Ravenna (Eastern Themes were seen as much more important) and embraced Iconoclast heresy. Justinian really should make Belisarius his co-emperor in west this would give Romans of west stake and representation in government.

P.S. what happened to mod file? tried to DL but got file is not here error.

Might be due to me silently uploading hotfixes while the file's download count was at 0. I've found a few issues with the attribution of the Autokrator trait and I'm attempting to fix them.

 

[Requete]

Thanks Comrade is this mod also changes the name of empire from ''Bizantine'' to Rhomagnia or BtR? I am sick of manually changing it in my every game, also adding United Chalcedonian Church to the starts in 769 and 867 would be a nice cause now the game makes no sense after all the Pope of Rome did took part in VII Ecumenical Council in Constantinople which condemned Iconoclasm as heresy and which took place after the game starts.

 

[Federalist girl]

I, uh, wouldn’t take Hellenophilia as evidence that emperors thought “Greeks as superior.” Hadrian was a multilingual emperor from Italica, in Spain who traveled all over the Empire. I don’t know why that even came up, anyway.

I agree that the Byzantines would not suddenly start speaking Latin or LARPing as 1st century Romans at the moment of their ultimate victory.

 

[andrefortes]

A definitive hotfix has been uploaded, with the issue regarding the Autokrator trait having been finally fixed. I've also added the trait to all emperors since Heraclius, giving it to them at the moment of their ascension to the throne.

As an extra, a small sub-mod was included in the upload, which changes the name "Byzantine Empire" into "Basileia Rhomaion". The same also applies to the restored empire.

 

[Dimension3500]

Thank you so much for making this mod. The same complaints you have (of Paradox making the Restoration seem more like Pagan LARPing rather than Justinian 2.0 and Orthodoxy being set aside as the vanillast of religions) are the same that have been bugging me ever since Legacy of Rome came out.

Stauros nika.

 

[Grease]

Disagree as having Byzantines take over the world while staying Byzantines is an option. Restoring the Roman Empire is something you have to specifically choose to do.

Of course, it's good to have the mod available for anyone who is bothered by it.

 

[Dimension3500]

Restoring the Roman Empire IS conquering the world as the Byzantines - that's the point. Hence, doing a Justinian 2.0, having a Latinized Roman Renaissance and some sort of Pagan Renewal are completely different things, yet Paradox treats them as the same.

It can be summarized by this statement: "If you reconquer the Empire, of course the aim is to bring back Early Empire/Late Republic aesthetics and Religion."

... while, of course, it is a sandbox aspect, it SHOULDN'T BE the rule, not at all.

 

[andrefortes]

Mod has been updated to CK2 version 3.2.1.