Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

[Mod] Dharmachakra - An Indian and Dharmic Religion Improvement mod

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Crusader Kings III 20419 Console 337 Suggestions 6141 Bug Report 4563 Tech Support 2570 User Mods 1934 Multiplayer 166 AARs (After Action Reports) MP Open Beta Feedback 27
Reader mode
Based on what research I've done for the Hunza and Kalash for my Pamir Immersion Pack for CK2, the spread probably won't be big enough to justify their inclusion on the map, with maybe one province at most and that's being a bit generous - in my CK2 mod, and when I add them to my CK3 culture mod, I intend to just have them as spawnable courtiers. Religion-wise, I've personally in my head lumped together Zunists, Kalash paganism, the Nuristani's paganism (before their conversion), etc. into a broader pagan religion that symbolizes all these groups as well as the practices of the Hephthalites. Their form of worship from what I've researched isn't so much an ancient form of Hinduism but more like a sister religion to Vedic and Mazdean faiths. That does remind me I should post my suggestions for Zunists in the suggestions sub-forum sometime, as I do have quite a bit of research on that....
 
  • 1
Reactions:
cybrxkhan said:
Based on what research I've done for the Hunza and Kalash for my Pamir Immersion Pack for CK2, the spread probably won't be big enough to justify their inclusion on the map, with maybe one province at most and that's being a bit generous - in my CK2 mod, and when I add them to my CK3 culture mod, I intend to just have them as spawnable courtiers. Religion-wise, I've personally in my head lumped together Zunists, Kalash paganism, the Nuristani's paganism (before their conversion), etc. into a broader pagan religion that symbolizes all these groups as well as the practices of the Hephthalites. Their form of worship from what I've researched isn't so much an ancient form of Hinduism but more like a sister religion to Vedic and Mazdean faiths. That does remind me I should post my suggestions for Zunists in the suggestions sub-forum sometime, as I do have quite a bit of research on that....
Click to expand...
I am wondering then what religion should the Nuristani have? I keep reading that it is ancient Hinduism, but there might be some more academic sources that shed better light on them. What do you suggest, since you seem to be knowledgeable here. :)
 
vyshan said:
I am wondering then what religion should the Nuristani have? I keep reading that it is ancient Hinduism, but there might be some more academic sources that shed better light on them. What do you suggest, since you seem to be knowledgeable here. :)
Click to expand...

Yeah let me dig up my sources I looked up for my Pamir related content for my CK2 Immersion Pack and stuff for CK3 (no plans to touch Zunists in any modding work atm, anyhow, so might be handy for you), so I can toss them your way, but my impression is that having it as an ancient form of Hinduism would be understandable but misleading. Zun, for example, from what I recall (and I may be recalling wrong as it's been a while) seems to be a pagan Hephthalite deity fused with some Vedic/Hindu aspects. So it's why I think if you want to take the safest route, to just have them as a separate religion, but maybe have Eastern Syncretism as a tenet (or a new tenet that has something like Eastern Syncretism built in). With the Nuristani there's also some confusing aspects as they were pagan for long enough we have some reliable modern scholarly work on them in the 1800s before they were converted, but not that much and it was the Victorian Era.
 
So taking the feedback into consideration, here is the new cultural layout. Feedback is welcome.

xXP0xvn.jpg
 
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
The rest Lhoyul should also be tani. edit actually mainling should also be tani.
Rajrappa and damin-i-koh could also be munda.
kasmira should be Kashmiri.
Madhupur should be bengali, though karmanta could be Kachari.
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:
Alright, so I managed to dig up some of my sources for Zunist/Kalash related stuff:
I had some sources concerning the practices of the Nuristani in Afghanistan but couldn't find any. I would suggest googling The Kafirs of the Hindu Kush by George Scott Robertson, which is the primary Western academic source on the pre-Islamic Nuristani as it was written right on the eve of their conversion in the late 1800s.

This also reminds me I really need to post those suggestions for Zunists soon, which you might find helpful as it's also basically just Kalash/Nuristani practices put in under the Zunist umbrella (given I interpret Zunism as a catch all for Indo-Aryan "paganism" in Afghanistan and northern/western Pakistan).

Concerning the layout, I'm also a bit iffy on calling them Nuristani in-game, as the term was given to them after their conversion to Islam in 1896, per the Encyclopedia Iranica article above. However, if no other good term can be found, I can understand its usage as one of convenience. I also recommend just using Encyclopedia Iranica in general for a lot of stuff - even though it chiefly concerns the Greater Iranian world, it has quite a number of articles related to the Indian subcontinent due to the long history of contact and influence between Iran and India. It is written by academics but fairly accessible, especially if you already have some basic background (only problem is its search function is absolute crap last I checked, so I suggest using google to find articles from it).

Otherwise, I have nothing much to say at the moment, but out of curiosity, do you know if we are able to do it like in CK2 where you can put new cultures on a separate file but still have them added to existing culture groups? Or do we have to directly modify the existing culture groups? Reason I'm asking is because if I have to do this then it could be a compatibility headache for my mod (not with your mod per se, I have no plans for anything in India, but in terms of modifying vanilla code).
 
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:
cybrxkhan said:
Alright, so I managed to dig up some of my sources for Zunist/Kalash related stuff:
I had some sources concerning the practices of the Nuristani in Afghanistan but couldn't find any. I would suggest googling The Kafirs of the Hindu Kush by George Scott Robertson, which is the primary Western academic source on the pre-Islamic Nuristani as it was written right on the eve of their conversion in the late 1800s.

This also reminds me I really need to post those suggestions for Zunists soon, which you might find helpful as it's also basically just Kalash/Nuristani practices put in under the Zunist umbrella (given I interpret Zunism as a catch all for Indo-Aryan "paganism" in Afghanistan and northern/western Pakistan).

Concerning the layout, I'm also a bit iffy on calling them Nuristani in-game, as the term was given to them after their conversion to Islam in 1896, per the Encyclopedia Iranica article above. However, if no other good term can be found, I can understand its usage as one of convenience. I also recommend just using Encyclopedia Iranica in general for a lot of stuff - even though it chiefly concerns the Greater Iranian world, it has quite a number of articles related to the Indian subcontinent due to the long history of contact and influence between Iran and India. It is written by academics but fairly accessible, especially if you already have some basic background (only problem is its search function is absolute crap last I checked, so I suggest using google to find articles from it).

Otherwise, I have nothing much to say at the moment, but out of curiosity, do you know if we are able to do it like in CK2 where you can put new cultures on a separate file but still have them added to existing culture groups? Or do we have to directly modify the existing culture groups? Reason I'm asking is because if I have to do this then it could be a compatibility headache for my mod (not with your mod per se, I have no plans for anything in India, but in terms of modifying vanilla code).
Click to expand...
First thanks for the sources. I was using Encyclopedia Iranica already as I found it via google and it is useful since it gave me a number of terms to use. As for the names of the culture, I could use the terms Siah-Posh/Safed-Posh/Lall-Posh which mean black robed, white robed, and red robed respectively or one of the tribal names. Atm I think it is a decent name to reflect the various tribal and ethnic groups there.

When it comes to file names you pretty much can name what they want if they are in the right spot. I been using the dharma_ prefix before the start of the file names; though there are still plenty of default names there I been moving more and more to naming things dharma_*rest_of_file_name*. So if you wouldn't to do something like viet_iranian_culture then you could do that. :)

Curious what are your suggestions for Zunism?
 
vyshan said:
First thanks for the sources. I was using Encyclopedia Iranica already as I found it via google and it is useful since it gave me a number of terms to use. As for the names of the culture, I could use the terms Siah-Posh/Safed-Posh/Lall-Posh which mean black robed, white robed, and red robed respectively or one of the tribal names. Atm I think it is a decent name to reflect the various tribal and ethnic groups there.

When it comes to file names you pretty much can name what they want if they are in the right spot. I been using the dharma_ prefix before the start of the file names; though there are still plenty of default names there I been moving more and more to naming things dharma_*rest_of_file_name*. So if you wouldn't to do something like viet_iranian_culture then you could do that. :)

Curious what are your suggestions for Zunism?
Click to expand...

Oh seems like I didn't read the bottom part of this - as for Zunism, my memory is a bit hazy as I need to look over it again, but my suggestions basically just boil down to taking whatever aspects of the Kalash or historical Nuristani pagan beliefs that can be game-ified, and changing the flavor to Zunist. It is interpreting Zunism as Afghan Paganism essentially. Still working on the long suggestion thread I'll post onto the suggestions subforum eventually, but there are several Kalash festivals (which are discussed in more detail in the links I provided above) that could serve as the default generic festival decisions. There's also some stuff it seems about the concept of purity (my memory is hazy atm) that I think could fit into the game somehow, but I haven't figured out how that could be game-ified.

As for the file names that's good if we can keep them in separate files then like in CK2, and not have to mix them up. Should make compatibility resolving much easier.
 
Very interesting mod indeed! I was actually working on my own India mod, but since you're much more advanced than I am: Can I use your mod for my own mod?

Additionally, my understanding is that Indian rulers had multiple wives, so could you change the marriage doctrine to polygamous or concubinage, when appropriate for the time period?

Thanks in advance!
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Version 1.2.0 "Saraswati"
  • Index
    • Version 1.2.0 "Saraswati" HAS BEEN RELEASED!
    Steam Workshop | Paradox Mods | Manual(Github)​

    This is a flavor update with a number flavor events for the dharmic religions, as well as moving the neighboring pagan religions into the Eastern Religious Family.
    • Overhauled the cultural map of India
    • Updated character's culture to reflect the new cultural map.
    • added the following cultures: Rakhine, Gondi, Konkani, Awadhi, Braj, Saurashtra, Bhil, Malvi, Nagpuri, Sambalpuri, Rajbongshi, Kumaoni, Pahari, Bihari, Munda, Nuristani, Tani, Meitei, Kachari
    • Hindustani is now a melting pot culture. It happens if you are of Iranian or Turkic culture and you rule over Braj or Awadhi
    • Added the following special buildings around India: Multan Sun Temple, Ellora Caves, Ajanta Caves, The Temple Complex of Pattadakal, Elephanta Caves, Katas Raj Temples, Konark Sun Temple, Sanchi, Takht-i-bahi, Dambulla Cave Temples, Pabonka Hermitage, Palitana Temple, Chittorgarh Fort, Ranthambore Fort, Gwalior Fort, Rani Ki Vav
    • Made the Zunist Religion part of the Eastern Family
    • Added the Nuristani faith, it is part of the Zunist Religion
    • Kashmir now is Shivite instead vaishnavite
    • Added various customizable flavor texts for various small things. You should expect to see terms for Indian games, clothing, food and so on pop up in the events that use them.
    • added the tribal religions of Bathousim and Sanamahism
     
    • 2Like
    • 1
    Reactions:
  • Add bookmark
  • Index
    • @vyshan

    Some good work here, well done.

    A couple of related points which may or may not be of interest you.

    In my mod I've recently added the Pyu culture in Pagan (Burma), which represents the native population before the Burmese began invading from Nanzhao. This was only in the years immediately prior to 867, so there ought to a sizeable Pyu culture in 867, and arguably also in 1066.

    On a related point; I'm less sure about the population on the ground (Ari will probably suffice here) but I've read a couple of sources stating that the Pyu kings were Sarvastivada Buddhists, which is an admittedly minor school, but I wondered if you would perhaps be interested in adding it for this purpose. I totally understand if you think it's not worth doing or lays outside your area of interest, but it does seem that one of the differentiating cultural factors between the ethnic groups in Burma were that the Pyu were Sarvastivada whereas the Mon were Theravada. I think the Burmese were a sort of syncretic Mahayana branch but eventually coalesced around Theravada beliefs once Anawrahta came to the throne. I'm very much a layman here though.

    Anyhow, if you're interested in a more accurate cultural setup in Burma to go along with your religious changes then I'd be happy to provide the work I've already done. Let me know.
     
    • 1Like
    Reactions:
    Pied-Noir said:
    @vyshan

    Some good work here, well done.

    A couple of related points which may or may not be of interest you.

    In my mod I've recently added the Pyu culture in Pagan (Burma), which represents the native population before the Burmese began invading from Nanzhao. This was only in the years immediately prior to 867, so there ought to a sizeable Pyu culture in 867, and arguably also in 1066.

    On a related point; I'm less sure about the population on the ground (Ari will probably suffice here) but I've read a couple of sources stating that the Pyu kings were Sarvastivada Buddhists, which is an admittedly minor school, but I wondered if you would perhaps be interested in adding it for this purpose. I totally understand if you think it's not worth doing or lays outside your area of interest, but it does seem that one of the differentiating cultural factors between the ethnic groups in Burma were that the Pyu were Sarvastivada whereas the Mon were Theravada. I think the Burmese were a sort of syncretic Mahayana branch but eventually coalesced around Theravada beliefs once Anawrahta came to the throne. I'm very much a layman here though.

    Anyhow, if you're interested in a more accurate cultural setup in Burma to go along with your religious changes then I'd be happy to provide the work I've already done. Let me know.
    Click to expand...
    Good information!
     
    So after a long absence, I am working on updating things to 1.4.4. I want it to be compatible with Muslim Enchantments, Cultural Flavor Pack, RICE, and Ethnicities and Portraits Expanded.

    @Aquamancer I am changing the colors to be more consitant. Shades of Red for the indo-Arayan cultures, yellows for the Dravidian, purples for the Burmese, and blues for the Tibetan. Which I think helps make everything pop better.

    In regards to the Pyu culture, I am probably going to look at the cultural setup once royal court comes out and revise things then but not before with the updates coming with Royal Court.
     
    • 6Like
    • 1Love
    Reactions:
    You may want to look into the Rajas of Indochina mod, they’ve made a number of changes to Burma and once there further along in development I think they have plans to do a overlook of India. They added Natkokwe a traditional religion for some parts of Burma. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2509174436
    discord link https://discord.gg/JK9ByQAw5e

    Some information of Tani http://eastasiaorigin.blogspot.com/2020/01/ethnic-origin-of-tani.html
     
    Last edited:
    • 1
    Reactions:
    Reader mode
    You must log in or register to reply here.
    Top Bottom
    Back