[Mod Release] Better AI - Tweaks for deadlier AI

[Amechwarrior]

Where is this?

I'll poke Mpstark about that one.

As for those escorts, I saw some of those initial posts and was worried I broke something and didn't catch it in my own testing. I remember someone made a "Escort fix" mod, could that fix it?

Also for escorts, APCs have a unique tag, noncombatant. I could possibly get them to move slower. But it might affect some story missions. Worth looking in to?

 

[Amechwarrior]

BetterAI-Permanent-Evasion-Add-On/releases/tag/1.0.1 [Mod edit: no unapproved links,please]

Here's the Add-On for Better AI + Perm. Evasion. Both are needed in ModTek for dependency checks. This only edits the global.json, the only one where the pip stripping variable is declared in my mod.

 

[Pode]

BetterAI-Permanent-Evasion-Add-On/releases/tag/1.0.1 [Mod edit: no unapproved links,please]

Here's the Add-On for Better AI + Perm. Evasion. Both are needed in ModTek for dependency checks. This only edits the global.json, the only one where the pip stripping variable is declared in my mod.

Should the pip stripping threshold be 1.0 or 0.0? If the threshold is the cutoff to hit chance above which AI will launch a normal attack and below which it pip strips, 0 makes sense. I'm having trouble figuring out the game logic where 1.0 produces the desired behavior. And I've definitely seen what seem like pip stripping attacks with it set to 1.0. But I've also seen full alphas, which seems odd if it works as I described above. Halp?

 

[Amechwarrior]

Should the pip stripping threshold be 1.0 or 0.0? If the threshold is the cutoff to hit chance above which AI will launch a normal attack and below which it pip strips, 0 makes sense. I'm having trouble figuring out the game logic where 1.0 produces the desired behavior. And I've definitely seen what seem like pip stripping attacks with it set to 1.0. But I've also seen full alphas, which seems odd if it works as I described above. Halp?

The description reads "When predicting whether an attack will strip a pip, compare the attack hit probability to this threshold. Attacks with a lower probability than this will not be considered to strip an evasive pip."

I read it as it compares the odds to hit like 75% vs the value 1.0 or 100% and would return a "This is lower than 100, it will not strip a pip" and I had the same questions about it myself. I checked with @don Zappo who uses Perm. Evasion in his pack and he recommended 1.0 as well. His pack also makes the AI a little looser with fire control to just blast enemies and hope something sticks.

 

[Pode]

Well that makes it clear as mud. Your reading of that description certainly seems like the correct one, but if that's how it works why isn't the vanilla value zero? For that matter why does the variable even exist? Shots always strip an evasion pip in vanilla.

 

[Amechwarrior]

Well that makes it clear as mud. Your reading of that description certainly seems like the correct one, but if that's how it works why isn't the vanilla value zero? For that matter why does the variable even exist? Shots always strip an evasion pip in vanilla.

I can only assume at some point in the development it was different and such a variable was needed. There are more than a few vestigial values and variables in the behavior files that are active.

 

[Pode]

Definitely getting inappropriate attempts at pip stripping, a fully armed Shadow Hawk alone fired only its medium laser at me. 3 fights no Mech ever fired more than a single energy weapon at me. I'm going to try 0 instead and see if anything changes.

 

[Amechwarrior]

Definitely getting inappropriate attempts at pip stripping, a fully armed Shadow Hawk alone fired only its medium laser at me. 3 fights no Mech ever fired more than a single energy weapon at me. I'm going to try 0 instead and see if anything changes.

There is another variable at work most likely. Try the one for "single conservative shot" or something like that in the description. Lower that amount to let the AI blast you on poor odd shots. Downside in Stock play is things like the STK and KTO broadside you and get too hot before they do any good.

Edit: Is this with a lowered base to hit or just more mobile units?

 

[don Zappo]

There is another variable at work most likely. Try the one for "single conservative shot" or something like that in the description. Lower that amount to let the AI blast you on poor odd shots. Downside in Stock play is things like the STK and KTO broadside you and get too hot before they do any good.

Edit: Is this with a lowered base to hit or just more mobile units?

Yep, that's the variable. That will make it take more low probability shots, which is honestly what it has to do sometimes. Unless we can definite a setting where it goes "sensor lock if worse than 30% to-hit chance" this seems to be the best solution we have.

I have mine lowered to 0.2, btw.

 

[Amechwarrior]

Yep, that's the variable. That will make it take more low probability shots, which is honestly what it has to do sometimes. Unless we can definite a setting where it goes "sensor lock if worse than 30% to-hit chance" this seems to be the best solution we have.

I have mine lowered to 0.2, btw.

With shooting at heavies and assaults does the AI need an adjustment to the conservative shot variable when used with Perm.Evasion? I'd figure it would be OK for them.

 

[don Zappo]

It is okay. More to help it deal with lights and mediums. With heavies and assaults that lower threshold never even gets considered.

 

[don Zappo]

By the way, I just started using CBT Heat. This makes overheating every now and then not so terrible. Any suggestions on how to make the AI less afraid of overheating without having it just go wild overheating every turn?

 

[Amechwarrior]

By the way, I just started using CBT Heat. This makes overheating every now and then not so terrible. Any suggestions on how to make the AI less afraid of overheating without having it just go wild overheating every turn?

Ouch, I've been trying to do exactly that with my scout role. I wanted backstabbing to be worth overheating and then sprint/jump cooldown. Sadly I kept finding they kill themselves if left alone long enough and their final overheat trigger is only slightly lower than base.

 

[Pode]

There is another variable at work most likely. Try the one for "single conservative shot" or something like that in the description. Lower that amount to let the AI blast you on poor odd shots. Downside in Stock play is things like the STK and KTO broadside you and get too hot before they do any good.

Edit: Is this with a lowered base to hit or just more mobile units?

A lance of lights, so the only thing without 3 or 4 pips is my Urbie. Will play with single conservative shots and report back in 24 hours or so.

Edit: So it's Float EvasiveToHitFloor and set to 40%, which on reflection seems good after all. Didn't realize I was giving the AI such bad targets.

 

[don Zappo]

I watched 3dahs play a match where a Shadowhawk basically did nothing all match but sensor lock. Then I played a match with a SHD-2K where it did that for most of the match, too. Only exception was for the last round of its life it took a shot with its weapons. Now, this Shadowhawk did start near the front lines and was trying to back off for most of the match. Do you think this is some interaction with whatever role is generated for it?

 

[Amechwarrior]

I watched 3dahs play a match where a Shadowhawk basically did nothing all match but sensor lock. Then I played a match with a SHD-2K where it did that for most of the match, too. Only exception was for the last round of its life it took a shot with its weapons. Now, this Shadowhawk did start near the front lines and was trying to back off for most of the match. Do you think this is some interaction with whatever role is generated for it?

Probably, I moved the 2D over to the scout role, which has a lower barrier to using SL. 25 vs the stock 35 value everyone else is using. The SL value is really weird and was really frustrating in beta, they changed a lot of it behind the scenes and it works a lot better now. But, I haven't had a chance to really screw around with the settings. The 2K, got no idea what role tag it was set to. I was able to catch some of his stream tonight! Caught a little bit with two QKDs in some forests and one did a rear DFA, both of them racked up some good damage. I'm used to just having QKDs die without much fuss, but I guess all of the other mods in play let everyone live much longer. I also caught that martian mission with that Shreck that kept doing nothing and eventually two vehicles becoming inoperable. I'm considering that bug potentially caused by my AI, even if I can't replicate it yet. I'm going to try some available contract # alteration in my post story mode save and just keep traveling until I get a good convoy assault to try it out with. The one escort and convoy assault I have been using is like 1 or maybe 2 skull early game stuff. That I saw his other clip of that SRM carrier just skipping a turn. At first, I'd think the "don't move in to lethal positions" might be in play and too strong, but then I'm doing a serious 2nd playthrough with harder enemy settings and my AI mod and never seen that kind of action once. Thing is, the early game vehicles are still hilariously fragile, yet for me, they have no problem moving forward and trying to engage. I got to see a bit of the mods heat mechanics in action. I'll test some adjustments out too, as that should be a quick and easy one to see. If you want to try and tinker with it, mess with the "k" : "Float_AccuracyNeededForOverheatAttack", and "k" : "Float_AcceptableHeatLevel", variables. I'm probably just going to put Sumo in an Atlas vs 4x KTO on the moon and just make the exact same moves until I gain LoS and Brace forever. Then once I have a reference, move some values and run it again. I'd likely pick 3 low guts pilots and Sumo for the AI team to see how they deal with a lot of 2.0+ heat space (low guts) and a very narrow slice with Sumo's 8 Guts. I'm thinking you might be able to go back to the stock 2.6 Acceptable Heat Level, or something near it with how that ammo explosion trigger works.

Also, with just Perm. Evasion alone, do you think an adjustment is needed to the conservative shot value in the Perm.Ev. branch of Better AI?

 

[RyuKazuha]

Something a little odd I noticed in one of my campaign missions was two panthers trying to shoot my unmoving, unbraced VND-sniper way back, while a SHK and CNT where basically in their faces. The mission wirte up is in my AAR with some screenshots showing the basic situation. I guess it was the target they were most likely to damage given the situation, but I would have expected them to try and get some distance on the closing attackers.

 

[Pode]

Also, with just Perm. Evasion alone, do you think an adjustment is needed to the conservative shot value in the Perm.Ev. branch of Better AI?

I added a lower setting block to the last man standing ai. I think the 40 percent cutoff is generally still good for perm evasion, but LMS needs to be lower as you're not going to get a chance to wait for better shots.

 

[Amechwarrior]

Something a little odd I noticed in one of my campaign missions was two panthers trying to shoot my unmoving, unbraced VND-sniper way back, while a SHK and CNT where basically in their faces. The mission wirte up is in my AAR with some screenshots showing the basic situation. I guess it was the target they were most likely to damage given the situation, but I would have expected them to try and get some distance on the closing attackers.

This one here? I was thinking since you are also using CCC, that something with perm evasion would have made the hits on the two brawlers harder than the flat footed and "vulnerable" VND, but then I saw the date posted was the 19th. The mod was released on the 21st, so while @don Zappo uses my mod, that build must have been based off of the far older beta skirmish AI tweaks and updated by Don for his pack until this one, "Better AI" went 1.0. If you happen to have the save for that mission, you could run it again and see if the same thing happens now with the 1.0 release.

In 1.0, snipers like the Panthers should have tried to move away from your closest units. However, with them being the last two units on the field, the game probably would have shifted one or both of them brawler. Currently, the game doesn't allow more than 50% of the force to pull the sniper tag, so two PNT can never both be snipers if they are the only units in play. This prevents the AI running away forever and forcing players to have to chase down those last opponents to end missions.

 

[GamRom]

Thank you for the mod, no problems so far. Ai is deadler, like concentrate fire on damaged\unstable units.