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Thanks ImperatorRoman I will keep tweaking things and adding features for the next little while, but I hope to have the mod relatively feature complete so that it can be used as a base for future modding that MudcrabMerchant and I, or anyone that wants to use the code, work on.

If anyone has any ideas for new features or changes to the current ones, please feel free to post them.
 
Have a question regarding population growth - it feels a lot slower than it was before the update (Example my castle can support a total of 24k rural and about 1.5k urban but the total population has sat at about 10k for over nearly 70+ years.) Anything been touched in that regard? :x
 
The old population growth was simply a % growth that was based on the buildings present. With the right buildings it could get to insane numbers like 10%.

Now it uses a logistic equation which has a base growth rate that tailors as you get closer to the carry capacity. The base rate is set to 2%, which in my opinion is fairly reasonable for human populations. This means if the carry cap is very far away, the population should double in about 35 years.

If people find this is too low, I could increase it to 3-4%, but any higher would be unrealistic. Humans have a limit to how fast we can reproduce.

Edit, it has been at 10k without increasing for 70 years? It is possible that there is a bug in the code. You should still be getting around 1% per year if you have half the cap.
 
If the growth rate shown is correct (right clicking holding rural growth rate shows 0.002) - then doesn't that mean it has a growth rate of 0.2%? this an example.

At the moment my holding has 10149 pop 9712 rural and 437 urban but has a cap of 25500. its growth rate is 0.005 which is 0.5% in percentages.

If its not that then It's probably due to the diseases seems i've just had an extremely unlucky run as other counties have made it 14k pop just none of mine even though they've never been raided or sieged down sadly.
 
Yes that is correct. The growth rate is the post logistic equation % increase.

The exact equation is the following (0.02)(1-pop/carrycap) = growth rate

Then, if you have manorialism implemented and the holding is a castle, your growth will be halved.

Diseases will subtract from the population growth, making it possible to have a negative growth.
 
Great job! It is most needed mod for the CK2 imho ^^ well, since ck2+ and its factions ^^
An epic idea about 2 kinds of population, I could've never thought about it but it make so much sence
there is one more feature that I think would add greatly into immersion - that is, losing population by losing troops, might be important, especially for underpopulated holdings
 
This is a variant of the base mod that can be used for people that want to use MudcrabMerchants maps with settlement limitations. All provinces will have a max per settlement population cap around 50k with this, instead of the carry cap being dependent on the terrain and climate as it is in the base mod that I made.
 

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Great job! It is most needed mod for the CK2 imho ^^ well, since ck2+ and its factions ^^
An epic idea about 2 kinds of population, I could've never thought about it but it make so much sence
there is one more feature that I think would add greatly into immersion - that is, losing population by losing troops, might be important, especially for underpopulated holdings

The idea for two separate populations actually comes from MudcrabMerchant, who in turn got the idea from Meiou and Taxes for EUIV. I would love to add in a system that tracks the levies and modifies the population based on their depletion, but as far as I know, that simply isn't possible with the cureently available modding tools.

I don't know of any way of exporting the levy size of a settlement to a variable. If there was a way of doing this. There is also no way of knowing when a settlement's troops are raised. All of the levy related variables are hardcoded and innaccessible.

The only thing that can be tracked at the moment are the levies available to a given lord. Any attempt to use this to modify the settlement populations would likely result in a very convoluted system that wouldn't exactly work as intended.

Unless anyone has any ideas of how to actually implement it in code, I am at a loss for how such a system could be created.

If in the future, the devs add a settlement levy variable that can be exported and additionally an on_levy_raise or some similar on action event, then it might be possible. At the moment though, I simply dont see any way it can be done.
 
The only thing that can be tracked at the moment are the levies available to a given lord. Any attempt to use this to modify the settlement populations would likely result in a very convoluted system that wouldn't exactly work as intended.
Ok, lets look into it: is the number of levies available to a given lord just a sum of troops from his demesne and his vassals or are there seperate numbers?
 
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Btw I looked there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_demography
and found that by year 1000 Europe had around 56.4 millions of people, so in year 769 it should be 30-45 millions
There are 1349 counties in ck2 and I guess that half of them is Europe so its like 700 counties, so it should be 43000-64000 population per county on average
So I suggest to increase current pop number by factor of 5 - so smallest have 25k people and biggest 100k people
 
Using this: https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Provinces
I make similar research about India but with more exact numbers: ck2 has 65 bengal empire provinces, 94 rajastan empire provinces and 70 deccan empire provinces so its 229 provinces for India
Here is a very rough estimation of Indian population in those years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_India
By it there were 66 million people in India in 769 year, so it's 288k population per county - much more then in Europe
 
Hi NakedBeast, the number you can extract is only the total realm levies of the lord. This is affected by several factors, including opinion, vassal laws and vassal type. With the available variables, there is no way to determine the amount of troops that you should take from each settlement. In addition, there is no way to know when a lord raises troops, or when a settlement is replenishing troops, so when to take troops is also a problem with implementing a true manpower system.

Thank you for the population information. Note, in my mod the settlement is tracked per settlements, so 40k actually works out fairly close to what I currently have, given there are 3-4 settlements in 769 in most European counties.
 
When sieging How do you actually get to enslave the population - it seems i can only ever occupy them.

I've tried normal wars on the same religion - I've tried wars on Heretics - and I've tried wars against Heathens. Am I missing something? Do I need a trait?

I've also tried raiding with no luck too.

Found out by looking into the mod files - you might want to mention in the manorial law description that it prevents raiding for population.
 
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@NakedBeast

For consistency's sake I used McEvedy and Jones' Atlas of World Population History for every population figure. You can download a full PDF of it here https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2014/12/21/pour-happliquer/ (the website is French but the PDF is entirely English).

My population figures are based on 867, though that applies almost perfectly to 769 for most areas, and in the worst areas is only off by ~20%. When I have the time I will update the map for exact 769 figures. I got those figures by taking the nearest dated population estimates in the Atlas, and extrapolating from there. Usually there are figures for 700, 800, and 900 CE, so it isn't that hard to do.

I can guarantee that the figures you see in game are accurate for the Atlas' estimates, with minor exceptions in some areas that fall well within the margin of error on historical estimates like this. The only areas that are not properly represented are Egypt, Yemen, and India, where some provinces need to have more than 300k rural pops to reach historical figures. Ideally, the Nile Delta, one or two Yemeni highland provinces, and the entire Indo-Gangetic plain would have 100k population per holding.

The figures only become significantly divorced from the Atlas when it comes to carrying capacity. With the current number of provinces, virtually all of France and Germany and a few other European regions would have full holding slots, making it impossible to represent subregional differences. For that reason, holding slots were reduced in some areas to make the holding slot distribution line up more with a map of early modern population density. I'd estimate that the carrying cap is reduced in some areas by up to 20% of what it should be, but I felt it was acceptable given that we're dealing with generally rough estimates, and that it isn't an exact science to translate historical population figures into carrying capacity.

India is the only place where there are huge problems. I based carrying capacity on max population achieved before 1700 (or in some cases 1650), reasoning that agricultural technology and crop usage didn't change dramatically in Europe until after that point. Presumably, in an ideal situation (e.g. a major centralized pan-European empire with no frequent wars, and with no Black Death), these figures should be reachable even by 1453. But in India, the population in 1500 (my old carrying cap cutoff date) was ~100 million. In 1700, it was ~160 million. That's an average of 8.7 versus 14 holdings per province. Even in the former case, and with the Indo-Gangetic plain provinces buffed immensely, India is still mostly a blob of provinces with 7 holding slots. In the latter case, it would be much worse.

India can look somewhat sane with 100 million max pop, so I went with that. I think a detailed, realistic map of India can be made with TwiddleFactor's variable carrying capacity, but to work with variable carrying cap per holding, the holding slot map will have to be redone for the entire world.
 
Now that's some interesting resource!
Still not perfectly detailed and a few years old, but at least an overview over the entire Old World. And it has info (at least estimates) for such dates as 800 etc, where there is little info about elsewhere.
So thanks for sharing!
 
Using those figures for the carrying capacity of Iran might not be the best idea - the sacking of Iran by Genghis Khan and then the black plague afterwards irrevocably changed Iranian society compared to how it was previously. It's likely that the Iranian population would have been significantly higher if Iran hadn't reverted to a primarily pastoral society.
 
Using those figures for the carrying capacity of Iran might not be the best idea - the sacking of Iran by Genghis Khan and then the black plague afterwards irrevocably changed Iranian society compared to how it was previously. It's likely that the Iranian population would have been significantly higher if Iran hadn't reverted to a primarily pastoral society.

I thought it was a bit low too, but I assume the authors were aware of the devastation caused by the Mongols, and yet still didn't give Iran a bigger early medieval population.

I am generally skeptical of their figures outside of Europe, but I won't make changes in the absence of other sources of similar quality. I've seen estimates of Iran having up to 10 million before the Mongols, and of Iraq having up to 5 million, but not as part of systematic studies.
 
This would be awesome to use with After the End (with some tweaks so that the counties are not all at 500 pops)