[MOD] SWMH 2.0 Map, de jure and general history mod. For a superior CK2 experience

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Almost all games I started crusades eat up muslims everywhere... Africa, Middle East... hmmm.

Provinces look good. You even got it right with rivers very good as far is Bosnia concerned. Will test it after I get from work.

 

[Aasmul]

Almost all games I started crusades eat up muslims everywhere... Africa, Middle East... hmmm.

For me its mostly confined to Algeria and Tunusia and its always the HRE who get those two. Everywhere else the crusaders get stomped in a month or so. But you are right one has to be carefull if adjusting and I don't think its a good idea to consider it until after patch 1.06.

Provinces look good. You even got it right with rivers very good as far is Bosnia concerned. Will test it after I get from work

Thanks!, Im very proud of my rivers(I also had to redaw them 20 times or soo). Apart from the barronies I think a couple of the COA might need to be changed(not to proud of the Vrhbosnia I made), and Zahumlje should probably have its settlement moved nearer the coast.

 

[Korbah]

Is there a chance you will move southward at some point and expand dyrrachion and that area, so as to be able to include a historical kingdom of albania?
Perhaps because it's so small it may be irrelevant, but I thought I'd ask :ninja:

 

[Aasmul]

Is there a chance you will move southward at some point and expand dyrrachion and that area, so as to be able to include a historical kingdom of albania?
Perhaps because it's so small it may be irrelevant, but I thought I'd ask :ninja:

Its neither to small nor irrelevant wll be in the edition after. I have a rediculesly amout of work to do with Poland, the HRE(luckily its mostly redrawing, and re doing postions) and Hungary. so in order to get this version out I will wait with Albania and the rest of the area(I hope my Bosnian friends might lend a hand again). I was originally mostly thinking on ways to do Euprisus but then I saw the flag of Arbër and that bird is just to cool:happy:

 

[Sniggles]

Not really sure of what to do with Italy but if you got some info on an entity that can be used im open to the suggestion.

Well the Roman Empire's seat was in Rome until the split under Constantine, obviously, and a vast majority of de jure claims in the medieval period are based on the holdings of the Romans or their immediate successors, so that could easily be used as a de jure basis for an Empire in Italy. It would either include the de jure Kingdoms of Italy and Sicily (probably a better idea) or the de jure Italy, Sicily, and the duchy of Tunis/Kingdom of Africa (since Rome held Carthage for the vast majority of its existence). As for names I'm not quite sure since the Latin Empire does exist in-game already. If the Byzantine Empire retains that name the Empire of Romania (or Imperum Romaion in Latin... I think that's how that goes. My latin is incredibly rusty) might work. Perhaps someone more skilled than I can think of a better name for this hypothetical entity.

Btw I don't think France would agree that it where a part of the Reich

It actually was. It was the headquarters of the Carolingian Empire (and its starting point; Charlemagne was a King of France after all) under Charlemagne, and even after the division of the Holy Roman Empire under Charlemagne's grandsons it was still considered formally a part of the Reich until after Hughes I Capet took the throne and met with the Kaiser on the recognized borders of the two independent nations. Claims between the French Kings and the German Kaisers continued until well into the 1300s, though; there are actually hundreds of stories of the Pope playing one ruler off of the other, and occasionally of the Pope offering to back one of the ruler's claims to the other nation.

 

[Aasmul]

Well the Roman Empire's seat was in Rome until the split under Constantine, obviously, and a vast majority of de jure claims in the medieval period are based on the holdings of the Romans or their immediate successors, so that could easily be used as a de jure basis for an Empire in Italy. It would either include the de jure Kingdoms of Italy and Sicily (probably a better idea) or the de jure Italy, Sicily, and the duchy of Tunis/Kingdom of Africa (since Rome held Carthage for the vast majority of its existence). As for names I'm not quite sure since the Latin Empire does exist in-game already. If the Byzantine Empire retains that name the Empire of Romania (or Imperum Romaion in Latin... I think that's how that goes. My latin is incredibly rusty) might work. Perhaps someone more skilled than I can think of a better name for this hypothetical entity.

I think the Roman empire would be a bit strange to have in the world of CK2, aside from the timeline issue, how would you define which part of the world the HRE and ERE should contain if a Roman empire exsisted at the same time? Earlier I played around with the idea of using Esperya(the ancient greek term for Italy) as an empire title for Italy and Sicily but that would also be a step to far back in time, without any hisotrical merit behind adding it to a 10th-14th century game. Closet skeleton had actually worked out a nice decision that merged the ERE and HRE into a Roman empire but it apparenlty had some issues with how crownlaws acted afterwards.

It actually was. It was the headquarters of the Carolingian Empire (and its starting point; Charlemagne was a King of France after all) under Charlemagne, and even after the division of the Holy Roman Empire under Charlemagne's grandsons it was still considered formally a part of the Reich until after Hughes I Capet took the throne and met with the Kaiser on the recognized borders of the two independent nations. Claims between the French Kings and the German Kaisers continued until well into the 1300s, though; there are actually hundreds of stories of the Pope playing one ruler off of the other, and occasionally of the Pope offering to back one of the ruler's claims to the other nation

Yes but the caroligan empire is a bit out of the scope of the CK2 timeline(and those claims was thought to be more than a bit iffy even back then)

 

[Sniggles]

I think the Roman empire would be a bit strange to have in the world of CK2, aside from the timeline issue, how would you define which part of the world the HRE and ERE should contain if a Roman empire exsisted at the same time? Earlier I played around with the idea of using Esperya(the ancient greek term for Italy) as an empire title for Italy and Sicily but that would also be a step to far back in time, without any hisotrical merit behind adding it to a 10th-14th century game. Closet skeleton had actually worked out a nice decision that merged the ERE and HRE into a Roman empire but it apparenlty had some issues with how crownlaws acted afterwards.

Well it wouldn't really be the Roman Empire, just named after it and incorporating much of its traditions, very similarly, in fact, to the HRE, Byzantines, and the Latin Empire for that matter. Fascination with Rome is rampant throughout history, and all the major Christian Empires of this period associate themselves with it. Therefore I don't think a tertiary Empire that had to do with Rome would really be out of the question--in fact, I think it makes more sense to call it such, especially when we're talking about a hypothetical Romanesque Empire in the territory that Rome began in.

The HRE's boundaries are defined by the conquests of Charlemagne, so approximately their vanilla boundaries are sufficient. As for the Byzantines, southern Italy was a part of the WRE until its collapse and Justinian's conquest in the 500s AD, but Justinian subsequently lost the territory and it wasn't his to begin with so I'd say that southern Italy need not really be associated with the ERE (and thus could be included as part of this hypothetical third Empire). I think the ERE's de jure bounds should include the extent of territory that it controlled during the division of the Empire, namely the extent it held of the Balkans, plus modern Turkey, the Levant, and northern Egypt. That leaves all of Italy and Sicily open in de jure terms for another Empire, and it makes sense that the historical birthplace of the Roman Empire should associate itself with that Empire, from which almost all Medieval Empires and de jure claims draw their basis.

Yes but the caroligan empire is a bit out of the scope of the CK2 timeline(and those claims was thought to be more than a bit iffy even back then)

You're right in that the claims were a bit iffy--they were downright unfounded--but I disagree in the thinking that the Carolingian empire is outside the scope of the CK2 timeline. Its existence and separation are the direct reasons for the de jure and de facto boundaries of France and the HRE in the beginning of the game in 1066. I think (personally) that you're looking at history too narrowly in this regard; there are a lot of events that could've happened hundreds of years before a time period but still have a massively resounding effect on that period. In the case of the Roman Empire and the Carolingians, a lot of their efforts, customs, and territorial extents play massively into the boundaries of kingdoms and other entities in CK2. Not everywhere, of course, but the parts of the world they ruled they left long-lasting marks on.

 

[Aasmul]

Well it wouldn't really be the Roman Empire, just named after it and incorporating much of its traditions, very similarly, in fact, to the HRE, Byzantines, and the Latin Empire for that matter. Fascination with Rome is rampant throughout history, and all the major Christian Empires of this period associate themselves with it. Therefore I don't think a tertiary Empire that had to do with Rome would really be out of the question--in fact, I think it makes more sense to call it such, especially when we're talking about a hypothetical Romanesque Empire in the territory that Rome began in.

The HRE's boundaries are defined by the conquests of Charlemagne, so approximately their vanilla boundaries are sufficient. As for the Byzantines, southern Italy was a part of the WRE until its collapse and Justinian's conquest in the 500s AD, but Justinian subsequently lost the territory and it wasn't his to begin with so I'd say that southern Italy need not really be associated with the ERE (and thus could be included as part of this hypothetical third Empire). I think the ERE's de jure bounds should include the extent of territory that it controlled during the division of the Empire, namely the extent it held of the Balkans, plus modern Turkey, the Levant, and northern Egypt. That leaves all of Italy and Sicily open in de jure terms for another Empire, and it makes sense that the historical birthplace of the Roman Empire should associate itself with that Empire, from which almost all Medieval Empires and de jure claims draw their basis.

You're right in that the claims were a bit iffy--they were downright unfounded--but I disagree in the thinking that the Carolingian empire is outside the scope of the CK2 timeline. Its existence and separation are the direct reasons for the de jure and de facto boundaries of France and the HRE in the beginning of the game in 1066.

I think (personally) that you're looking at history too narrowly in this regard; there are a lot of events that could've happened hundreds of years before a time period but still have a massively resounding effect on that period. In the case of the Roman Empire and the Carolingians, a lot of their efforts, customs, and territorial extents play massively into the boundaries of kingdoms and other entities in CK2. Not everywhere, of course, but the parts of the world they ruled they left long-lasting marks on

I have to look at the history relatively narrowly, some of the entites I have included is just outside the scope of the timeline like:
Iberia that is molded on the Iberian union), Britania that is molded on Great Britain, Poland-Lithuania which is molded on the commonwelath and Nordmannia(the term for Scandinavia/Danish influencesphere at the HRE court) which is molded on the Kalmar union.
However they all have in common that:
1. they represent an idea that is much older(not counting Poland-Lithuania)
2. they do not conflict with other entities(like the HRE or ERE)

and its number two in particular that makes it hard to introduce the Caroligian empire and the Roman empire:mellow:

 

[Sniggles]

I have to look at the history relatively narrowly, some of the entites I have included is just outside the scope of the timeline like:
Iberia that is molded on the Iberian union), Britania that is molded on Great Britain, Poland-Lithuania which is molded on the commonwelath and Nordmannia(the term for Scandinavia/Danish influencesphere at the HRE court) which is molded on the Kalmar union.
However they all have in common that:
1. they represent an idea that is much older(not counting Poland-Lithuania)
2. they do not conflict with other entities(like the HRE or ERE)

and its number two in particular that makes it hard to introduce the Caroligian empire and the Roman empire:mellow:

As for Britannia, there's a solution there; why don't you rename it to Albion? That's mythology from the tale of King Arthur, which existed prior to the Norman conquest, and completely historical. There's not necessarily a de jure basis for an Empire of Albion, but its extent would be that of Britannia and it's reasonable to assume that someone who conquered the full extent of the Isles would crown themselves Emperor of Albion. You'd no longer be anachronistic.

Also, I'm not asking for the Carolingian Empire, because it already exists, so-to-speak, in the form of the HRE and the kingdom of France. All I'm suggesting is that you might profit from not being quite so orthodox in your interpretation of history as a linear experience. Sometimes concepts jump hundreds of years, like the Roman Empire did; over 300 years between its "fall" and the rise of the Holy Roman Empire, and 800 between its fall and the rise of the Latin Empire, both based upon it. The hypothetical Imperium Romaion wouldn't be the Roman Empire, it's just that it, like the Latin Empire, would borrow its name--and its status as an Empire--from the Roman empire of the past. If the de jure boundaries of the HRE and ERE don't conflict with that of hypothetical-Romania, I don't see how #2 affects it at all. And for #1, obviously this Empire would be well-rooted and have a massive de jure basis in fact.

 

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Well, the alpha version looks good.

Soli should be city in province Usora, not barony.

Bihać should be added to Croatian/Hungarian control, Tvrtko or any other bosnian bans and kings never asserted control in that part of today's Bosnia. It looks odd as Bihać is sticking almost to the Austrian border, or HRE. Also, Bosnian Kingdom should be creatable only if you control provinces of Zachumlje, Podrinje. I will repeat again, first king of Bosnia, who took the Serbian crown (because Nemanjić dynasty was gone, he was only surviving heir) and proclaimed himself king of Serbs, Bosnia, Primorje (thats coastal area of Croatia, between Split and Dubrovnik), Zachumlje, Donji Kraji, Završje, Usora, Soli i Podrinje and so forth. So maybe including that provinces as requirement will add even more somewhat historical accuracy. Bihać should be removed from de jure part of Bosnian Kingdom.

Hmm, I dont know what to add else. Seems very good.

Do you have any other dilemmas? Whats next for the mod?

 

[Aasmul]

Well, the alpha version looks good.

Soli should be city in province Usora, not barony.

Will fix

Bihać should be added to Croatian/Hungarian control, Tvrtko or any other bosnian bans and kings never asserted control in that part of today's Bosnia. It looks odd as Bihać is sticking almost to the Austrian border, or HRE.

Should I change the proportions of Bihac and Zagreb? I could cut the little spike that points to Austria/Slovenia of and give it to Zagreb.

Also, Bosnian Kingdom should be creatable only if you control provinces of Zachumlje, Podrinje. I will repeat again, first king of Bosnia, who took the Serbian crown (because Nemanjić dynasty was gone, he was only surviving heir) and proclaimed himself king of Serbs, Bosnia, Primorje (thats coastal area of Croatia, between Split and Dubrovnik), Zachumlje, Donji Kraji, Završje, Usora, Soli i Podrinje and so forth.
So maybe including that provinces as requirement will add even more somewhat historical accuracy.

So the requirement should be Duke/Ban of Bosnia, count of Zahumjle and count of Podrinje? or would it be better to just say Duke/ban of Bosnia and Hum?

Bihać should be removed from de jure part of Bosnian Kingdom.

Just cheked the version I uploaded and Bihac should be in the Banate of Croatia:unsure:

o you have any other dilemmas? Whats next for the mod?

I have started to rework Hungary and It will take a day or two, then I will finish up Poland and then the HRE(the last is a big area but it should still be over quickly).

If you could help me with the namelist I could add the Bosnian culture, and maybe its a good idea to add a playable charater or change one that already there so that at leat one or two is of Bosnian culture...

 

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Should I change the proportions of Bihac and Zagreb? I could cut the little spike that points to Austria/Slovenia of and give it to Zagreb.

Just a little bit, so i doesen't look odd. It really looks that way, It's like Croatia is split in two by Bihać and that region of HRE.

So the requirement should be Duke/Ban of Bosnia, count of Zahumjle and count of Podrinje? or would it be better to just say Duke/ban of Bosnia and Hum?

The latter version is good.

Just cheked the version I uploaded and Bihac should be in the Banate of Croatia:unsure:

Well, when you start a game in 1337, the Bihac is in Bosnia. Maybe thats it, you are starting your game from 1066?

If you could help me with the namelist I could add the Bosnian culture, and maybe its a good idea to add a playable charater or change one that already there so that at leat one or two is of Bosnian culture...

Some names I already added while ago, and about playable character, it could be one of Kulinic dynasty or Kotromanić dynasty. They both wrote about Bosnjani, and were actual "heretics", lot of them, Bogulimism even survived Ottoman conquest for a short time. So, Bogulimsm and Bosnian Church played a vital role in Bosnian history. In one instance they removed ban from power because he was supporting pope. Bishop was called djed.

To that names we can add following: Jeremija, Husan, Prijezda, Taniša, Ostoja, Azarija, Kukleč, Tišemir, Didodrag, Budislav, Hlapoje, Dragost, Povržen, Nenac, Batal, Muven, Gojak

Female names: Kosara, Maja, Neda, Mirna, Katarina, Huma, Vitača, Kujava, Jelisaveta, Odola, Nada, Marija, Drinka, Una, Gorana, Izvorinka, Slavenka, Dalmata, Zlomanica, Dunja, Malina, Jagoda, Ljiljana, Lila, Ruža, Ružica, Đurđica, Lana, Jasen, Jasenka, Ljubica, Maca, Boža..



Are surnames also needed?

 

[Aasmul]

Just a little bit, so i doesen't look odd. It really looks that way, It's like Croatia is split in two by Bihać and that region of HRE.




The latter version is good.


Well, when you start a game in 1337, the Bihac is in Bosnia. Maybe thats it, you are starting your game from 1066??

Yes I always do, because im lazy(and really stupid, considering its Bosnia we are trying to fix:blush.

Some names I already added while ago, and about playable character, it could be one of Kulinic dynasty or Kotromanić dynasty. They both wrote about Bosnjani, and were actual "heretics", lot of them, Bogulimism even survived Ottoman conquest for a short time. So, Bogulimsm and Bosnian Church played a vital role in Bosnian history. In one instance they removed ban from power because he was supporting pope. Bishop was called djed.

To that names we can add following: Jeremija, Husan, Prijezda, Taniša, Ostoja, Azarija, Kukleč, Tišemir, Didodrag, Budislav, Hlapoje, Dragost, Povržen, Nenac, Batal, Muven, Gojak

Female names: Kosara, Maja, Neda, Mirna, Katarina, Huma, Vitača, Kujava, Jelisaveta, Odola, Nada, Marija, Drinka, Una, Gorana, Izvorinka, Slavenka, Dalmata, Zlomanica, Dunja, Malina, Jagoda, Ljiljana, Lila, Ruža, Ružica, Đurđica, Lana, Jasen, Jasenka, Ljubica, Maca, Boža..



Are surnames also needed?

No surnames are not needed but a male and a female patronym is (son and daughter in Bosnian), will put a culture together later today(been working, been to exams or been modding for 2 weeks straight so Im takeing half a day off

 

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Sure mate, you deserve your time.


After your mod, vanilla provinces look just poor, no depth.

 

[ZmajOgnjeniVuk]

Some names I already added while ago, and about playable character, it could be one of Kulinic dynasty or Kotromanić dynasty. They both wrote about Bosnjani, and were actual "heretics", lot of them, Bogulimism even survived Ottoman conquest for a short time. So, Bogulimsm and Bosnian Church played a vital role in Bosnian history. In one instance they removed ban from power because he was supporting pope. Bishop was called djed.

AFAIK, the heresy (I'm not sure Bogomilism is the right term for it, since they had different theological views than the original/Bulgarian Bogomils - and heresies are about theological views ) in Bosnia was practically dealt with by king Stjepan Tomaš - property seizure, expulsions, mass conversions...the whole shebang.


Also, while a de jure kingdom of Bosnia would be interesting for gameplay (if that's what you're aiming for) - even though in fact Bosnia just overtook the crown of Raška/Serbia (the popes several times refer to it as "Bosnia that is Serbia" lol), let me try and advocate against a separate Bosnian culture, because IMHO, that would be a projection of the current times onto the past and thus anachronos.

Several other historical sources place Serbs in "Bosnia proper" in the middle ages. Foreign ones: first mention of Bosnia is in De Administrando Imperio, in the section called "On Serbs and land they now inhabit", and domestic ones: ban Ninoslav in a charter to Dubrovnik traders names his subjects "Serbs" and the traders "Vlachs" (meaning "Latins" in that case, those terms were sometimes used as synonyms) and ban Stefan II issues a charter and orders that 4 copies should be made - 2 on Latin and 2 on Serbian language. And to repeat what eXmAn said about the title of kings in Bosnia - they styled themselves "King of the Serbs, Bosnia, Hum, the Littoral, etc").

Bošnjani are often mentioned in domestic sources, but almost exclusively in the context of "those that are loyal to the ban/king", thus being "good Bosnians" (the adjective "good" in always next the noun). There's several occasions of some people being named "good Bosnians" but have been otherwise testified as Croats (Vukac Hrvatinić, from nowdays western Bosnia, whose surname indicates that he's a Croat(Hrvat). He's also an offspring from the cadet branch of the more well known Croatian family - Šubići) or Serbs (Sandalj Hranić, Duke of Hum and the second most powerful person in the realm of Bosnia, in a letter to Dubrovnik, about some money he deposited for safekeeping say "I Sanjdalj [...] by my own hand, made this contract in Serbian language).


Now, to return to the essence: The work you made on the map looks ∞ times better than vanilla one (which was very disappointing to me, they haven't changed a thing from CK1 map there)! Will be awaiting the next release with anticipation

 

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AFAIK, the heresy (I'm not sure Bogomilism is the right term for it, since they had different theological views than the original/Bulgarian Bogomils - and heresies are about theological views ) in Bosnia was practically dealt with by king Stjepan Tomaš - property seizure, expulsions, mass conversions...the whole shebang.


Also, while a de jure kingdom of Bosnia would be interesting for gameplay (if that's what you're aiming for) - even though in fact Bosnia just overtook the crown of Raška/Serbia (the popes several times refer to it as "Bosnia that is Serbia" lol), let me try and advocate against a separate Bosnian culture, because IMHO, that would be a projection of the current times onto the past and thus anachronos.

Several other historical sources place Serbs in "Bosnia proper" in the middle ages. Foreign ones: first mention of Bosnia is in De Administrando Imperio, in the section called "On Serbs and land they now inhabit", and domestic ones: ban Ninoslav in a charter to Dubrovnik traders names his subjects "Serbs" and the traders "Vlachs" (meaning "Latins" in that case, those terms were sometimes used as synonyms) and ban Stefan II issues a charter and orders that 4 copies should be made - 2 on Latin and 2 on Serbian language. And to repeat what eXmAn said about the title of kings in Bosnia - they styled themselves "King of the Serbs, Bosnia, Hum, the Littoral, etc").

Bošnjani are often mentioned in domestic sources, but almost exclusively in the context of "those that are loyal to the ban/king", thus being "good Bosnians" (the adjective "good" in always next the noun). There's several occasions of some people being named "good Bosnians" but have been otherwise testified as Croats (Vukac Hrvatinić, from nowdays western Bosnia, whose surname indicates that he's a Croat(Hrvat). He's also an offspring from the cadet branch of the more well known Croatian family - Šubići) or Serbs (Sandalj Hranić, Duke of Hum and the second most powerful person in the realm of Bosnia, in a letter to Dubrovnik, about some money he deposited for safekeeping say "I Sanjdalj [...] by my own hand, made this contract in Serbian language).


Now, to return to the essence: The work you made on the map looks ∞ times better than vanilla one (which was very disappointing to me, they haven't changed a thing from CK1 map there)! Will be awaiting the next release with anticipation

We shouldn't do this here... I know everybody hates this.

I am aware that later rulers dealt with heresy, but most of them embraced it. I already told that Tvrtko took the Serbian crown... as far as I am concerned Bosnian Kingdom could be titular, and require some provinces to be created. I know every argument you mentioned, it's nothing new... but we shouldn't do it here. Bosnia always had their way of living and ruling, that was testified in De Administrando Imperio, so we should refer to that culture in the game for distinction, because Bosnians called themselves that way, they had their church and so forth. Rulers were feudals who could not care less for national identity that is associated with today nations...


So please...

 

[Aasmul]

Sure mate, you deserve your time.


After your mod, vanilla provinces look just poor, no depth.

Thats mostly due to you guys, with out your groundwork it could not have been made like this, anyway the vanilla province don't need help looking poor, they can mannage that quite well on their own....

Annoyingly I ended up spending my "day off" bug hunting, apparently the bug Kapas mentioned with an earlier version reappeared("Zuarin" being spelled over the area between Holland and central Sweden) but at least I have found the cause this time(something in the postions file was corrupted), I still don' t understand why it happens though. :unsure: but at least I know what I have to redo.

 

[Aasmul]

AFAIK, the heresy (I'm not sure Bogomilism is the right term for it, since they had different theological views than the original/Bulgarian Bogomils - and heresies are about theological views ) in Bosnia was practically dealt with by king Stjepan Tomaš - property seizure, expulsions, mass conversions...the whole shebang.


Also, while a de jure kingdom of Bosnia would be interesting for gameplay (if that's what you're aiming for) - even though in fact Bosnia just overtook the crown of Raška/Serbia (the popes several times refer to it as "Bosnia that is Serbia" lol), let me try and advocate against a separate Bosnian culture, because IMHO, that would be a projection of the current times onto the past and thus anachronos.

Several other historical sources place Serbs in "Bosnia proper" in the middle ages. Foreign ones: first mention of Bosnia is in De Administrando Imperio, in the section called "On Serbs and land they now inhabit", and domestic ones: ban Ninoslav in a charter to Dubrovnik traders names his subjects "Serbs" and the traders "Vlachs" (meaning "Latins" in that case, those terms were sometimes used as synonyms) and ban Stefan II issues a charter and orders that 4 copies should be made - 2 on Latin and 2 on Serbian language. And to repeat what eXmAn said about the title of kings in Bosnia - they styled themselves "King of the Serbs, Bosnia, Hum, the Littoral, etc").

Bošnjani are often mentioned in domestic sources, but almost exclusively in the context of "those that are loyal to the ban/king", thus being "good Bosnians" (the adjective "good" in always next the noun). There's several occasions of some people being named "good Bosnians" but have been otherwise testified as Croats (Vukac Hrvatinić, from nowdays western Bosnia, whose surname indicates that he's a Croat(Hrvat). He's also an offspring from the cadet branch of the more well known Croatian family - Šubići) or Serbs (Sandalj Hranić, Duke of Hum and the second most powerful person in the realm of Bosnia, in a letter to Dubrovnik, about some money he deposited for safekeeping say "I Sanjdalj [...] by my own hand, made this contract in Serbian language).

I understand the reservation with adding Bosnian culture, but I think eXmAn is right that the diffrences would be more pronounced on people who weren't part of the noble class(at least the nobles and rulers would probably not let its show, as more than a few of their titles was Serbian and they would not want to undermine their legitimacy). Anyway Danish, Swedish and Norwegian is seperated in three cultures (and thats not very fact like, since Danes and Norwegians in partucular were pretty much identical back then(If one looks away from the west norse language that the isolated parts of Norway used)) and if they can be seperated, I think its okay to seperate Bosnian from Serbian(and it would add some gameplay flavour to the region).

Now, to return to the essence: The work you made on the map looks ∞ times better than vanilla one (which was very disappointing to me, they haven't changed a thing from CK1 map there)! Will be awaiting the next release with anticipation

Im very happy you think its looking brigther in the balkan area , a word of warning, I have started to work on Hungary so Im going to pester you with quetions the next couple of days:blush:

 

[Aasmul]

As for Britannia, there's a solution there; why don't you rename it to Albion? That's mythology from the tale of King Arthur, which existed prior to the Norman conquest, and completely historical. There's not necessarily a de jure basis for an Empire of Albion, but its extent would be that of Britannia and it's reasonable to assume that someone who conquered the full extent of the Isles would crown themselves Emperor of Albion. You'd no longer be anachronistic.

Also, I'm not asking for the Carolingian Empire, because it already exists, so-to-speak, in the form of the HRE and the kingdom of France. All I'm suggesting is that you might profit from not being quite so orthodox in your interpretation of history as a linear experience. Sometimes concepts jump hundreds of years, like the Roman Empire did; over 300 years between its "fall" and the rise of the Holy Roman Empire, and 800 between its fall and the rise of the Latin Empire, both based upon it. The hypothetical Imperium Romaion wouldn't be the Roman Empire, it's just that it, like the Latin Empire, would borrow its name--and its status as an Empire--from the Roman empire of the past. If the de jure boundaries of the HRE and ERE don't conflict with that of hypothetical-Romania, I don't see how #2 affects it at all. And for #1, obviously this Empire would be well-rooted and have a massive de jure basis in fact.

Would Albion not exclude Ireland?

Im sorry, but I can't see the "roman empire" and two succeor empires(or continuation for the ERE's part) coexsiting.

 

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To that names we can add following: Jeremija, Husan, Prijezda, Taniša, Ostoja, Azarija, Kukleč, Tišemir, Didodrag, Budislav, Hlapoje, Dragost, Povržen, Nenac, Batal, Muven, Gojak

Female names: Kosara, Maja, Neda, Mirna, Katarina, Huma, Vitača, Kujava, Jelisaveta, Odola, Nada, Marija, Drinka, Una, Gorana, Izvorinka, Slavenka, Dalmata, Zlomanica, Dunja, Malina, Jagoda, Ljiljana, Lila, Ruža, Ružica, Đurđica, Lana, Jasen, Jasenka, Ljubica, Maca, Boža..

Veseoko
Bolašin
Pribil
Semorad
Milko
Braja
Dijak
Bogčin
Crijep
Poznanj
Vuk
Breško
Vukša
Dabiživ
Juroje
Ozrisal
Medulin
Stojsav
Vukosav
Radovan
Stapjan


Female:

Jerina
Radača
Divica
Beoka


Directly from medieval tombstones - Stećci.

Unique stuff.