Mods for more challenging gameplay?

[Leoreth]

I am thinking about going back to CK3 to revisit some of the things that have been added to the game since I last played it.

However, I originally lost interest in the game because it does not provide enough of a challenge and sufficient pushback. I understand that CK3 is intended to be a roleplayed, but as an experienced strategy player I still intuitively approach the game trying to find optimal solutions to problems, and I do not feel that the game sufficiently constrains me for the roleplay to work. If there are no obstacles and setbacks, there is little room to get invested in a character/dynasty that moves up in power without much trouble.

I am also interested in historically accurate gameplay and looking for mods that help with that - but I am specifically not interested in historical content mods (that correct or add more historically accurate flavour) but rather changes to the game rules and balance that produce a more historically resonant experience.

For example, mechanics that I find too simple, exploitable, and ahistorical include:

• Claims: it is too easy to manufacture claims to press
• Matchmaking: it is too easy to "browse and shop" for spouses with their location and culture playing a too minor role, no meaningful impact of character opinion on spouses
• "Breeding": related and made easier by the above but a separate problem, it is too easy to marry good traits into your lineage and pass them on
• Character opinion: after the initial succession period, it is too easy to keep characters (especially vassals and lieges) happy simply through some social decisions and swaying/councilor tasks - where are characters who are determined to dislike you and oppose you for political reasons no matter how nice you are to them
• Stress: stress is a good system to give feedback for roleplaying and playing away from "optimal" strategies but its impact is too small and it is too easy to mitigate/reduce for this to matter
• Gold: it is too easy to amass gold and reinvest it to gain a compounding advantage, especially it helps trivialising the above two problems
• Unexpected events: things that troubled historical dynasty members like unexpected deaths (especially of heirs) happen way too infrequently

Which mods can you recommend that increase the challenge by addressing these and similar mechanics?

I have recently learned about the Dark Ages mod, which looks to be a good candidate that I definitely want to try. But from its description I am not sure if it addresses all of these points. Also, I would rather try to mix and match smaller mods that address some of these things individually so I can keep the ones that I like.

Thanks for any ideas.

 

[LT-Rascek]

There's no specific mod for most of these, but it is possible to make one with a few soft overwrites of database entries. Those I will list in Courier New; everything I list can be done in like 1-2 hours total.

There's a few that address some of these:

• Claims: it is too easy to manufacture claims to press

No mod does this afaik, although it's not too hard to add a game rule to slow down claim fabrication.

That would changing some values like `court_chaplain_fabricate_claim_base` or related script values. E.g., drop `court_chaplain_fabricate_claim_base` from 3 to 1 will triple the time required.

• Matchmaking: it is too easy to "browse and shop" for spouses with their location and culture playing a too minor role, no meaningful impact of character opinion on spouses

Partly ameliorated by reducing diplomatic range game rule, that reduces your potential pool. And the spouse's opinion shouldn't matter too much for the opinion; it's the opinion between lieges that matter, and being considered evil by said liege will yield almost always forbid marriage. It's a medieval game after all. And spouse opinion does matter if you're not careful, as my Catholic char's marriage to a Zealous Sunni intrigue char with great stats/traits demonstrates (my heir eventually found out she was the murder so...).

• "Breeding": related and made easier by the above but a separate problem, it is too easy to marry good traits into your lineage and pass them on

That doesn't have a good fix at the moment, but can be patched a bit.

That would involve creating an on action that fires at character birth with some chance (like 50%) that removes/downgrades positive traits. Maybe 20 lines total.

• Character opinion: after the initial succession period, it is too easy to keep characters (especially vassals and lieges) happy simply through some social decisions and swaying/councilor tasks - where are characters who are determined to dislike you and oppose you for political reasons no matter how nice you are to them

This is not fully exploited yet, although there's hope with legitimacy and vassal stances. But no mod makes too great an impact on these (that I am aware of yet).

Probably changing the faction-related modifiers to emphasize more the impact of vassal stances on joining claimant/dissolution factions.

• Stress: stress is a good system to give feedback for roleplaying and playing away from "optimal" strategies but its impact is too small and it is too easy to mitigate/reduce for this to matter

Sure, stress seems pretty simple to manage, so long as you're not one of shy/paranoid/diligent. I've lost a few children to stress before their 15th birthday with that exact personality combo.

This is a simple tweak though; mod the values in `common/script_value/00_stress_values.txt`; either decrease stress loss values or increase stress gain baseline values, or both.

• Gold: it is too easy to amass gold and reinvest it to gain a compounding advantage, especially it helps trivialising the above two problems

This is a long standing problem because the AI isn't too efficient while players can be, particularly during succession. E.g., being very careful with creating titles under non-confederate partition means you can consolidate much earlier. And players have a level of omnipotence that the AI would never have.

Maybe forcibly dividing cash on death between the children in some manner? I'd have to do more investigating. Probably doable but not immediately straightforward.

• Unexpected events: things that troubled historical dynasty members like unexpected deaths (especially of heirs) happen way too infrequently

Turn the Random Harm gamerule up to "Tragically Spiteful" and the Random Harm Target to "Anyone"/"Player Only" and let me know how that impacts you.

Other suggestions for Game Rule Tweaks

• Turn De Jure requirement rule to "On" instead of "On Limited"
• Realm Stability Rule to "Lesser Stability"
• Exclave Independence to "Total"
• AI Embarkation cost to "None"

A few mods that might help things in the direction you're thinking:
obfusCKate - Hides some information in the UI, making it less precise. I don't think it applies to event windows because mechanics, but I'm not certain if it impacts event window percentages or not. Not compatible with any other mod that touches GUIs unfortunately (e.g., like the ones adding tributaries).

Steam Workshop::obfusCKate - Hidden Information

steamcommunity.com

Higher Mortality Mod - More Char deaths, but hasn't been updated as of late, but an update is in the works.

Steam Workshop::Higher Mortality Mod

steamcommunity.com

Hope that helps and looking forward to RFC-DOC 1.18!

 

[Leoreth]

My obligations to finish RFC modding continue to haunt me in other forums even, it seems

I am aware that I can tweak some numbers but my issues with most of these go deeper than that. For example, I don't think it's a satisfying solution to make Fabricate Claim take twice as long. That really just turns an optimal strategy into a still optimal strategy that you need to wait longer for.

I am looking for deeper changes that address these issues. Like turning Fabricate Claims into a scheme, having other characters respond to it, it triggering events, any character engaging in this activity being considered underhanded, adding prerequisites to it (what is the justification of the fabricated claim?), adding risk to it etc. It doesn't need to have all or any of these solutions, those are just ideas. But my point is that I want a boring "press this button and wait to win" interaction replaced with a more intesting interaction instead.

I don't want to come across as extraordinarily demanding or picky - if mods like this don't exist that's fine.

In general I am already playing with the most restrictive versions of every setting the base game allows you to change - I still find many of these interactions trivially boring.

Partly ameliorated by reducing diplomatic range game rule, that reduces your potential pool. And the spouse's opinion shouldn't matter too much for the opinion; it's the opinion between lieges that matter, and being considered evil by said liege will yield almost always forbid marriage. It's a medieval game after all. And spouse opinion does matter if you're not careful, as my Catholic char's marriage to a Zealous Sunni intrigue char with great stats/traits demonstrates (my heir eventually found out she was the murder so...).

It should not matter in the sense that it can stop it but it should create more problems than it should. There should be a much bigger impact of having a spouse of a different culture and religion both in terms of vassal opinion as well as their effectiveness as a councilor.

This is a long standing problem because the AI isn't too efficient while players can be, particularly during succession. E.g., being very careful with creating titles under non-confederate partition means you can consolidate much earlier. And players have a level of omnipotence that the AI would never have.

That makes sense, and I don't mind being more competent than the AI (this is why you play this kind of game). But I would like to set a penalty for myself to account for it, and unfortunately the game does not have difficulties above normal.

A few mods that might help things in the direction you're thinking:

obfusCKate - Hides some information in the UI, making it less precise. I don't think it applies to event windows because mechanics, but I'm not certain if it impacts event window percentages or not. Not compatible with any other mod that touches GUIs unfortunately (e.g., like the ones adding tributaries).

Steam Workshop::obfusCKate - Hidden Information

steamcommunity.com

Higher Mortality Mod - More Char deaths, but hasn't been updated as of late, but an update is in the works.

Steam Workshop::Higher Mortality Mod

steamcommunity.com

Thanks, I will look into those as well!

 

[Bisonmask]

Dark ages and obfusckate (might be misspelled) are the best imo though the latter is pretty janky they both make the game much much more fun