Yep, when the event fires the AI mages also have to deal with this as well.
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Yep, when the event fires the AI mages also have to deal with this as well.
Forces players to keep forces back at the homestead to protect your major cities instead of runnning one or two killer groups across the map. It happens to all players. You can grab cash and loot. What's not to like?
Thats certainly the only reason i don't play on the highest difficulty. To frequent Spawns. Those Spawns are not threatening, they are just annoying in frequency. When you get every odd 20 turns a new event that spawns a couple of units and requires you to move all over the place to clean up dens, it just grinds the gameplay to a halt.
That people are arguing against making this optional is mind-boggling. It doesn't hurt you in any way, shape or form to make "Random monsters will spawn inside your borders" an option. You can play with it on, you can play with it off. That is, quite literally, all that the people in this thread want. And you're insulting them for it.
Personally, I loathe it. It's a feature that is logically inconsistent, punishes first time players and has no warning. I recommended the game to a friend of mine, who played it for a few hours and stopped, because having an army randomly pop out of no where with no warning and no indication that he needs to guard his central cities better than his borders is poor design. The first time it happens is aggravating. That it keeps happening, repeatedly, isn't a challenge. It is an annoyance. And, equally important in my eyes, is the effect it has on multiplayer. There is a reason strategy games offer options to lessen the impact of randomness in multiplayer. Hint; it isn't because people playing multiplayer are less skilled.
Personally, I loathe it. It's a feature that is logically inconsistent, punishes first time players and has no warning. I recommended the game to a friend of mine, who played it for a few hours and stopped, because having an army randomly pop out of no where with no warning and no indication that he needs to guard his central cities better than his borders is poor design. The first time it happens is aggravating. That it keeps happening, repeatedly, isn't a challenge. It is an annoyance. And, equally important in my eyes, is the effect it has on multiplayer. There is a reason strategy games offer options to lessen the impact of randomness in multiplayer. Hint; it isn't because people playing multiplayer are less skilled.
It has been said before, the best would have to have an "frequency option" in the starting screen (none/low/normal/high), none for the allergic, normal as it is implemented now, low with 50% occurence and high for the maniacs (x2).
This seem relatively easy to implement. I think the difficulty the devs have is that the did a trendy/loaded option screen which is hard to update.
Etienne
This seem relatively easy to implement. I think the difficulty the devs have is that the did a trendy/loaded option screen which is hard to update.
Etienne
long time lurker, first post:
I like the random spawns a lot! They made the mid- and late-game way more interesting for me. Like people already pointed out, before they were implemented, no defence in the homeland was necessary - which made the game less interesting and challenging, at least for me.
In general, I'm all in favour for making settings optional! I never got, why modern games aren't more customizable - more options allow more people to find their spot in the game and enjoy it..
I like the random spawns a lot! They made the mid- and late-game way more interesting for me. Like people already pointed out, before they were implemented, no defence in the homeland was necessary - which made the game less interesting and challenging, at least for me.
In general, I'm all in favour for making settings optional! I never got, why modern games aren't more customizable - more options allow more people to find their spot in the game and enjoy it..
There is a difference between Monster Spawning and Monster Spamming. This game sadly goes for the latter.
For all the Civ5 elements "borrowed" for making this game it is disappointing that they forgot one of the best: In Civ5, barbarians and their spawns could indeed randomly show up anywhere on the map, so long as that hex was outside anyone's borders. By expanding your borders you push back all the potential spawn points for the barbarian hordes, thus giving you breathing room.
While over here, on the other hand, it likes to punish you for winning by farting out ogre dens right next to your capitol over and over and over and over and over and over... Plus factor in just how absolutely worthless the defense forts & towers are on any level past novice (even then you still need at least two or three in every city to hold the SPAM HORDE at bay) and you're basically stuck piling on top tier units as nothing more than garrisons for when the next inevitable monster spam triggers.
The end result is a disorganized mass instead of a growing empire. There is no concept of border security since monster spam can and will occur right next to any and every town at any and all times. Expansion stops being something you desire and instead becomes just an ever increasing headache as it simply opens up more & more places for the monster spam to open next to your hopelessly vulnerable towns.
Honestly, what is the point in trying to push back the tide of rampaging monsters outside your borders when the game will just crap them right back out directly on top of your towns at any unspecified time later? It eliminates all sense of accomplishment and achievement when you know that nothing you do is going to have any lasting effect.
For all the Civ5 elements "borrowed" for making this game it is disappointing that they forgot one of the best: In Civ5, barbarians and their spawns could indeed randomly show up anywhere on the map, so long as that hex was outside anyone's borders. By expanding your borders you push back all the potential spawn points for the barbarian hordes, thus giving you breathing room.
While over here, on the other hand, it likes to punish you for winning by farting out ogre dens right next to your capitol over and over and over and over and over and over... Plus factor in just how absolutely worthless the defense forts & towers are on any level past novice (even then you still need at least two or three in every city to hold the SPAM HORDE at bay) and you're basically stuck piling on top tier units as nothing more than garrisons for when the next inevitable monster spam triggers.
The end result is a disorganized mass instead of a growing empire. There is no concept of border security since monster spam can and will occur right next to any and every town at any and all times. Expansion stops being something you desire and instead becomes just an ever increasing headache as it simply opens up more & more places for the monster spam to open next to your hopelessly vulnerable towns.
Honestly, what is the point in trying to push back the tide of rampaging monsters outside your borders when the game will just crap them right back out directly on top of your towns at any unspecified time later? It eliminates all sense of accomplishment and achievement when you know that nothing you do is going to have any lasting effect.
Sounds very strange for me.
Well, I cannot name myself expert in this game - I beaten it only twice on maximum difficulty and latest patch so far - but I never seen anything remotely like that.
1. "Again and again and again" happened for me... well, maybe 5 times per one game. And only once it costs me one city - it was on the edge, and I couldn't defend it. I got it back two turns after that.
2. "Worthless towers" was the best defence against named "horde". Because either it weaken monsters enough before I can kill them with my units, or simply kill them outright.
3. "Top tier units" for me was... well, mostly they are skeletons.
Big bad skeletons with their mighty rusty swords! Having one per 5-10 towns usually quite enough to hold any attack for 2-3 turns. And new mighty skeleton archers, warriors and elves will clean up the house after that. Maybe I am doing something wrong, I dunno, but this spamming newer gave me real troubles so far...
^ +1. Spawns caused me a problem the first couple of times they caught me by surprise. Now as pretty much everyone has said, they are something that gives me extra gold and mana, and a reson to have a 'home guard' in a few of my towns. Certainly never felt like expanding was pointless!
If you read this forum it seems that almost every player asks for a better AI. I just wonder, when this Monster spawning cause so much problem, what would happen if we got a better AI?
I think most of you dont get it, the monster spawn is just a massive cash inflow mid game when you need it. Etienne
Well, dunno if its really about getting it.. I like the spawns: a little unplanned action, free loot, free xp for the few homeland securtiy guys - what's not to like there, right?^^
But on the other hand, I can imagine how people get pissed about 'em. Its like Sid once said: (some ) people don't like unpredictable stuff to happen in there games. He seemed to be right. I don't consider me to be one of those people. But then it's more like I don't get them, since they have a vailde point, that decreases their fun.
I bet there wouldn't be half as much complains about this, if the spawns were in the game right from the beginning. People would have adopted to them in the first palce. Therefore they would not feel that the game is messing with them by having monsters spawn in there usually undefended homeland.
Leaving your homelands undefended is a bad idea anyway. It is always good to have ay least some infantry garrisoned every 2 or 3 cities, just to hold off in case some oger pops, leaving time for reinforcements to arrive. Also as Etien said the lairs are a big source of money mid game and there is a lot of competition for looting these lairs that pop on neutral ground.
It doesn't even sound like some of you are playing the same game...are you playing on normal or small world size? If so, you many not even have a large enough empire or long enough games to see the "lair spam". They spawn at each and every one of your cities, causing 50+ of "enemy approaches" for you to cycle through (some cities, some towers). They aren't even a challenge, they are just a time-wasting annoyance; followed by several turns of cleanup....even if you do post guards at your cities.
If they were looking for a creative/interesting mid- or end-game event, they should either look to:
- Real world events similar to the ones I mentioned earlier in this thread (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...s-NOT-fun!&p=14304105&viewfull=1#post14304105). They could even weigh the events more against the player based on difficulty.
- or: Make the enemies an actual threat...something that takes more than just one group of enhanced swordsmen + city defense...hell, we're in the other worlds taking down dragons. If the spawns were hard enough, they could also lessen the number to something less spammy and more realistic (one for every 5/10 cities). Maybe a god gets pissed and sends "Lesser Avatars" all over the world.
...but the way it is now, it just doesn't scale to a large or lengthy game.
If they were looking for a creative/interesting mid- or end-game event, they should either look to:
- Real world events similar to the ones I mentioned earlier in this thread (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...s-NOT-fun!&p=14304105&viewfull=1#post14304105). They could even weigh the events more against the player based on difficulty.
- or: Make the enemies an actual threat...something that takes more than just one group of enhanced swordsmen + city defense...hell, we're in the other worlds taking down dragons. If the spawns were hard enough, they could also lessen the number to something less spammy and more realistic (one for every 5/10 cities). Maybe a god gets pissed and sends "Lesser Avatars" all over the world.
...but the way it is now, it just doesn't scale to a large or lengthy game.
Thats most likely one of the reasons for the divide. As it is, Warlock allows for too much city spamming for any game above normal world size to be fun IMO. Even on normal the end game becomes burdensome clickfest with no regard of individual cities.
Got rather annoyed by the sudden spawning all over the place in my current game. Attacking my cities was annoying but nothing I couldn't deal with. What really annoyed me is that some creatures spawned right in the middle of a fight with my opponent's capital and proceeded to randomly weaken or finish off some of my units.
If you really want to spawn stuff all over (it does make the conquered territory less boring than in Civ where I start missing beating up the barbarians, after a while), why not spawn the creatures but only allow them to move on the next turn? One turn to react isn't too much to deal with such a wrench in your plans.
If you really want to spawn stuff all over (it does make the conquered territory less boring than in Civ where I start missing beating up the barbarians, after a while), why not spawn the creatures but only allow them to move on the next turn? One turn to react isn't too much to deal with such a wrench in your plans.
I'm now playing my first game after the new patch has been released (ver. 1.3.0.46) and to me it seems that they have toned down the monster spawning. I haven't seen any Ogres spawn at all, only Wild Serpents and they are really easy to deal with. Has anyone else the same experience?
Still happens frequently for me. Since these events are probably completely random you might have been lucky?
Jeez, some folks need to chill. Make your case against the monster spawns, but don't exaggerate and blow it out of proportion in an effort to make your point have more gravity. When the facts don't add up, it ends up weakening your case instead of strengthening it, and costs you credibility. In point of fact, the monster spawns DON'T require top tier units to defend, nor do they spawn such that "each and every" city is threatened. Sorry, they just don't (unless you only have 3 cities and you just happened to get them at all three). It's actually random, and you don't have to destroy your economy to defend against the eventualities of random spawns unless you're so new to the game that you don't understand the economy yet (in which case you get a pass). Let's not resort to hysterics to make an effective point, here.
For those of you who are critics of the feature, give this a try: at all times, employ a mix of basic archers and melee units throughout your cities. Learn to generate a continuous stream of them as you conquer, as your newest cities are the ones that are the most vulnerable to monster spawns. I usually aim to get a unit for every 3 cities, spaced throughout my empire. The mix of archers/melee that I use is about 2 archers to 1 melee. Reason why is *generally* archers are more useful for this role. They are useful for attacking boats of the AI armies (which have a tendency to hug your coast 1 or 2 at a time), and don't have to leave the safety of your cities to do their damage. In fact, the only reason I mix melee in there is because sometimes the monster spawn is "Undeads" which are highly resistant to missile fire.
Helpful tip -- you will note that a monster spawn will NEVER occur where you either (1) have a building, or (2) have a unit. For that reason, I prefer to put buildings on hills/forests/jungles whenever it is feasible so that the monsters will tend to spawn in the open, making them less defensible when my counterattack comes. Adding to that, I usually post my "garrison" units on the rough terrain that my buildings cannot yet cover, for the same reason.
I happen to agree with those of you who think there should be an option to toggle it on or off. I also think, after a little experience under your belt, the game would become boring without it being turned ON. The AI isn't smart enough on its own to keep experienced players on the edge of their seats. But then, that's when you can turn the option back on, I guess. I get you.
For those of you who are critics of the feature, give this a try: at all times, employ a mix of basic archers and melee units throughout your cities. Learn to generate a continuous stream of them as you conquer, as your newest cities are the ones that are the most vulnerable to monster spawns. I usually aim to get a unit for every 3 cities, spaced throughout my empire. The mix of archers/melee that I use is about 2 archers to 1 melee. Reason why is *generally* archers are more useful for this role. They are useful for attacking boats of the AI armies (which have a tendency to hug your coast 1 or 2 at a time), and don't have to leave the safety of your cities to do their damage. In fact, the only reason I mix melee in there is because sometimes the monster spawn is "Undeads" which are highly resistant to missile fire.
Helpful tip -- you will note that a monster spawn will NEVER occur where you either (1) have a building, or (2) have a unit. For that reason, I prefer to put buildings on hills/forests/jungles whenever it is feasible so that the monsters will tend to spawn in the open, making them less defensible when my counterattack comes. Adding to that, I usually post my "garrison" units on the rough terrain that my buildings cannot yet cover, for the same reason.
I happen to agree with those of you who think there should be an option to toggle it on or off. I also think, after a little experience under your belt, the game would become boring without it being turned ON. The AI isn't smart enough on its own to keep experienced players on the edge of their seats. But then, that's when you can turn the option back on, I guess. I get you.
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