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Muddling Through the Darkest Hour - Learning How to Play the UK

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son of liberty said:
Let the clock turn over to the next day. The real cost should show up. As to why the ai is build 10 lines of subs???? Who knows lol. Are they low on manpower?
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It's 18 lines, not 10. I ran it for a day to see if it changes.
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2 show up August 8, 1941.
1 shows up November 22, 1941
1 shows up December 15, 1941
2 show up January 3, 1942.
12 show up February 22, 1942.

The Submarines also have torpedo tubes and for some reason, they are only allowed improved hull.
1753096524004.png

My guess is the AI gets a script and it is similar to when you start the game and a bunch of very low cost builds are in the queue. So Germany is scripted to build lots of U-Boats.
 
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The ai has loads of those in game for example russia gets 0,1 ic divisions. It makes for more dificulty for the player to acount for general AI incompetence. The subs are probobly there to force semi realistic battle of atlantic. 18 lines times 10 subs in one flotila x 10. 1800 subs and all. Is it realistic no, but makes up for the dumb decision the ai does and keeps you as a UK on your toes sure would be nice to blow all the ships at the start of a war in port but then your fleet has nothing else to do. For the sake of gameplay the game is heavily lobsided towards ai being able to produce more, player has bigger brain than couple of .txt files.

As for the torpedo brigade that must be a oversight in the script. This used to be a case in earlier versions of the game that you could put torpedo tubes on subs but was dropped due to being semi broken.
 
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Yeah, I was wondering if OP is playing a mod or an older version when I saw that.
 
Muddling Through the Darkest Hour Session 44 - September 22, 1941

This time, I took a spare moment to write down again a list of units the UK starts with, in preparation of a plan for a rematch. I am not sure whether to post the rematch at the end of this run or at the start of a new thread. I am leaning towards the former. This will make is more likely I finish this run. Besides, there are tons of rules I can think of that I am not yet clear on.

Battleships and Battlecruisers are too expensive. Yes, I get it. For the price of 1 Battleships, we can have 10 to 12 Destroyers. Naval Bomber seems to wreck Battleship. The UK starts the game with 15. The main reason to build is role playing and insisting we build 5 Battleships. Seeing all the Submarines Germany appears to get for free, we need as many destroyers as we can get and 60 seems like a lot.

The drawback I can think of is in game, I think the role of the Battleship is range. If confronted with a cruzerg group, it is possible it wins the coin flip and gets the favorable position, inflicting 4 hits to 0 and very likely sinking something.

Something I do not know is what the numbers Naval Attack and Naval Vulnerability mean. I think 20 Naval Attack means it fires 20 shots per hour at some poor victim. If the vulnerability is 30, then 30% of those shots hit, for an average of 6. So it takes some combination of ORG and STR hits. If it runs out of ORG, then it takes extra STR damage. We have plenty of battles coming up against the Japanese to find out.

Ideally, this poor victim is the biggest, ugliest enemy ship, but very likely this is not possible due to positioning and screening. We have to choose one of the screening vessels instead.

Then there are factors affecting the initial position. I think each hour, one fleet tries to spot the other fleet. If either fleet spots, then combat starts. If one fleet spots and the other does not, then they get surprise and get to start at their preferred range. So the cruzerg fleet has to spot the battleship fleet without getting spotted. I also do not know what roll affects whether the cruzerg fleet gets to close in on the battleship fleet. I am guessing it is number of km they have to close, speed, and skill.

Spotter might be the best trait to put at the head of a group. Tactician might be good for a smaller group delivering a punch.

Naval combat is another question. It appears they single out one group and then the biggest, ugliest ship. Does the rest of the group get to fire at the Naval Bomber? If so, then some CL might be good.

News from the Front:
August 1, 1941 - The game started on reload with The Last Flight of Rudolf Hess.
Looking around our fleet, we discovered that HMS Nelson is finally ready to sail! We have no way to get it to the Pacific.
We will try a slightly different plan. We will give it the incredibly honorable task of escorting 21 Transports to Singapore.

August 2, 1941 - Colombia aligned with the Allies.
August 12, 1941 - We won a defensive victory at Fredrikshaven, scoring about 2 to 1 odds.
For what it is worth, we have a General with 3.56 skill and a Garrison with 30.94 Experience.

August 13, 1941 - We sighted IJN Nagato. Bad news is it was still nighttime and stormy. We will have to go hunting later. We will do something unthinkable and split up our fleet.
August 15, 1941 - The Kamakazi Storm followed us in our hunt for IJN Nagato.
August 16, 1941 - In spite of numbers, the Italian Subs have been performing much better than the German U-Boats. They have always been finding us in the middle of the night when we are least effective. We will count up our damage.

August 17, 1941 - Our Aircraft found the Japanese Carrier Fleet! One Naval Bomber and 3 Fighters did quite a number on that Carrier.
August 19, 1941 - We got busted in the middle of the night by another IJN Battleship group, this time at 5km point blank range. Fortunately, our Aircraft Carriers had full Battleship support. On the other side of the world, we got our victory in Odense. Rinse and repeat.

August 24, 1941 - We found 3 Japanese Naval Bombers, 1 Tactical Bomber, and 2 Fighters. We battled for control over the Straight of Formosa.
August 26, 1941 - Vlasov defected to the Germans.
August 29, 1941 - Victory in Fredrikshaven.

September 1, 1941 - We successfully landed our Transports into the Philippines. We might yet save the Philippines!

September 8, 1941 - The German Offensive Chit is over. RIP.
September 17, 1941 - USA announced the end of the peacetime economy. Same thing happened to Japan, but they have been at war for years.
September 18, 1941 - Germany announced the Atlantic Wall. Does this mean they are getting a bunch more 0.1 IC U-Boats?
Meanwhile they won a diplomatic victory. Haiti decided to stay neutral in this conflict.
In the Philippines, we scored a victory and took out 3 Japanese Divisions.
1753152882104.png

September 19, 1941 - This might have finished off the Japanese in the Philippines. We should be able to reclaim it by the end of the month.
1753153190783.png

Upgrade Parade:
September 13, 1941 - Medium Armor upgrade. Our Upgrades are all up to date for a little while.

Production:
August 5, 1941 - Portsmouth Radar Level 7. Maybe it is coming in handy.
August 10, 1941 - Portsmouth AA Level 7. We are not seeing business very often.
August 16, 1941 - Armored Car Brigade deployed.
August 16, 1941 - Engineer Brigade deployed.
August 30, 1941 - Garrison 12 101st Infantry Division deployed to defend Dover from Operation Sea Lion.
September 1, 1941 - Artillery deployed. We might be taking a break from Brigades soon.
September 4, 1941 - Escort Fighter deployed to a Naval Bomber which might have been an idiot move, but reversible.
September 5, 1941 - Norwich Anti Air Level 6. No customers.
September 14, 1941 - Tactical 2 Indian Group
September 16, 1941 - Artillery deployed

Technology:
41-10 Frontal Missions Doctrine completed August 8, 1941
41J Improved Encryption Device started August 8, 1941 by Alan Turing
41-11 Early Rocket Artillery completed August 17, 1941
41K Vickers Wellington Tactical Bomber started August 17, 1941 by de Havilland.
41-12 Naval Infantry Division completed August 24, 1941
41L Infrastructure Destruction Doctrine started August 24, 1941 by Enfield. Our pattern is actually pretty random.
41-13 Advanced Construction Engineering completed September 22, 1941
41M Small Arms Assembly Line started September 22, 1941 by English Electric.

Spy v Spy:
September 3, 1941 - Italy managed to steal the blueprints for Basic Medium Tank. They could have obtained them from the Germans.
September 4, 1941 - USSR tried to delay a tech team. They are fighting the wrong side. We are not at war with them.
September 17, 1941 - Ireland tried to smear our government.
September 19, 1941 - Germany tried to delay a tech team.

War in the Pacific:
August 6, 1941 - We sunk 2 Japanese Convoy Transports and 1 Escort in the Formosa Strait.
August 7, 1941 - 1 Japanese Convoy Transport and 2 Escorts at Daito Island.
August 20, 1941 - 2 Japanese Convoy Transports sunk off Hong Kong.
August 27, 1941 - 3 Japanese Convoy Transports and 1 Escort sunk in the South China Sea.
August 30, 1941 - 3 Japanese Convoy Transports sunk in the Strait of Formosa.
September 6, 1941 - 3 Japanese Convoy Transports sunk in the Strait of Formosa

Sunk Ships:
August 2, 1941 - DD3 KKS 8 sunk in the South China Sea by HMS Furious
CA4 IJN Haguro sunk by HMS Furious
We are patiently waiting for a 4v4 Carrier rematch against the IJN. In the mean time, we appear to be picking off ships one pair at a time.

August 16, 1941 - CL2 IJN Yahagi sunk off Hong Kong by UK Aircraft
August 16, 1941 - BB4 IJN Nagato sunk in the Straight of Formosa by HMS Furious
August 16, 1941 - CL4 IJN Sendai sunk by HMS Courageous

August 19, 1941 - Battle of Hong Kong
CA2 IJN Asama sunk by HMS Dragon
BB5 IJN Ise sunk by HMS Valiant
BC2 IJN Hiei sunk by HMS Royal Sovereign
CA2 IJN Izumo sunk by HMS Barham

September 3, 1941 - Contact with German U-Boats at Skaggarak. At least the battle seems to be limited as opposed to devastating. Since we are limited on resources, we will have to pull more Destroyers out of the Mediterranean. We only had 11/18 Destroyers remain intact after the battle.
SS5 USBF 43 sunk by Destroer Division 19
SS5 USBF 13 sunk by Destroyer DIvision 38
SS5 USBF 25 sunk by Destroyer Division 20

September 10, 1941 - DD3 KKS 4 sunk at Cape ca Mau by 2nd Heavy Sub Flotilla.

RIP List:
August 12, 1941 - 1 Convoy Escort lost off Hong Kong.
August 13, 1941 - 3 Convoy Transports lost off Hong Kong. Revenge is on its way.
August 20, 1941 - 3 Convoy Transports lost in the Celtic Sea to Italian Naval Bombers.
August 29, 1941 - 1 Convoy Transport sunk off St Malo by Italian Naval Bombers.
August 30, 1941 - That Italian Bomber took out another Convoy Transport.
September 6, 1941 - Another Transport lost off St Malo.
September 7, 1941 - The Japanese Naval Bombers sunk a Convoy Transport off Hong Kong. They are so much more powerful against Battleships.
Meanwhile the Italians got another Transport.
September 12, 1941 - This time the Italians took out a Convoy Escort.

September 22, 1941 - Well the bad news is IJN Kaga escaped again. The good news is we took out 2 Battleships and 1 Battlecruiser. We also secured the Philippines for a while, perhaps for quite a while if we are dominating in the Pacific.

We now have 31 Divisions committed to the Pacific. A big question is where we should be going next. We were going to say Thailand, but India might beat us to it.
1753153926924.png

We do not have any good visibility on Indochina. That might be a target for later. Also. Marine Divisions. We have 6 of 7 on the way by May. It looks like we also set up 14 lines of Destroyers. Maybe we also have problems with priorities.

More bad news. Here is the German Eastern Front. Now that the Offensive Chit is spent, maybe it starts to look better for the USSR.
1753154188506.png

This is the front in Finland. We decided not to move that direction because winter is coming.
1753154252696.png

Maybe went overkill in the Pacific. My thinking was to follow where the Royal Navy leads. With 6 Marine Divisions coming, we might be able to pull off some landings next year.

We figure once we take out the threat of the IJN, then we rule the waves and can strike anywhere and we take out our threats one at a time.

For Japan - When the IJN is gone, we can work on an anti-shipping campaign.
For Italy - 5 Marine Divisions might do better at a Naval Invasion. Unfortunately, we still only have 2 Tactical Divisions.

The important indicator is the VC count.
94 is what we have
89 is what I count for our opponents, including 22 for Japan
21 is what the USSR controls

So VC victory is easily within our reach. Next goal will be historical border with USSR. Maybe.
 
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Grahe said:
I gues thats the end of summer germans. Your raids against luftwaffe probobly made alot of difference.
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The only things I remember doing against LW is taking out the naval bombers and a few other bombers. We had a few scraps in the air. I have been terrible at setting up missions and maybe wisely spent a lot of time on the ground. Their losses look kind of terrible..

The Offensive Chit makes that big a difference, I take it.

I was not sure if that map looked okay or terrible or if it looks like USSR wins map.
 
Riel Hamard said:
The only things I remember doing against LW is taking out the naval bombers and a few other bombers. We had a few scraps in the air. I have been terrible at setting up missions and maybe wisely spent a lot of time on the ground. Their losses look kind of terrible..

The Offensive Chit makes that big a difference, I take it.

I was not sure if that map looked okay or terrible or if it looks like USSR wins map.
Click to expand...
The chit can make a difference if used properly. Personally, I don't use it at the start but I also don't begin with a broad front advance. I peirce a few holes and let my fast divisions encircle the divisions left on the front. I use offensive supply for select divisions in the beginning to get those encirclements. I use the chit to "seal the deal" when the Soviets are on the ropes barely hanging on but my guys are also starting to lag a bit. Barbarosa usually takes about 6 months or so unless I start late and give general winter a chance to interfere.
 
Muddling Through the Darkest Hour Session 45 - November 1, 1941 - Winter is Coming

My opening discussion is the same thing, fleet composition. Most likely this is much better discussed in other threads, because my game count is 0.25. One group composition I am thinking of is:

1CV +1BB +1CA +1CL +2DD for a group of 6. My thinking is most of the time, the range is 150 km and the CV gets a few hits in and the fleet takes no damage. Sometimes the range is 5 km and this is a disaster if we are up against 3BB +3CA. It is also a disaster if we are up against 6SS. It is also a disaster if we are up against 8 Naval Bombers. 5 of these groups make our fleet of 30 units. Our goal will then be at least 5 Aircraft Carriers. The requirement for 5 Battleships is filled by our starting total of 12 Battleships +3 Battlecruisers. We already have 16 or 19 Heavy Cruisers, depending on how we count. The 5 Leanders in our starting production line makes the 5CL and we still do not know if they get to defend the group against an air attack.

A lot of parts are interchangeable, but this is the group I am thinking of if we are worried about an opponent with air power. For Germany, we need an answer for Battleships, Bismarcks, U-Boats, and Naval Bombers. For Italy, we need an answer for Battleships and Naval Bombers. For Japan, we need an answer for Battleships, Naval Bombers, and Aircraft Carriers.

We will also need to form a stack of 30 Destroyers. This is the answer I can think of for the U-Boat problem. When I was looking at sub detection and sub attack numbers, I'm surprised at how well we have been doing with 18 old Destroyers against 26 German U-Boats.

If we still have production left over, a stack of 30 Submarines would be fun. We should also build a plan on which Admirals and Generals to promote.

End of rant of things I wish I understood before the game started. Most of the advice I read online about naval battles is to leave it in the hands of the dice gods. We will continue muddling through with the next Session.

News from the Front:
September 22, 1941 - We actually start each session by checking the status of our naval units, more specifically the number of Destroyers we have. We can spare 6 Destroyers in the Mediterranean and we have 4 Spare on home front. We have some units in the Pacific, but we are fighting a slightly different battle there. We are picking off Japanese patrols by the pair and have not located their Submarines yet.

October 7, 1941 - For some reason Japan is defending the airspace around Hanoi.
October 9, 1941 - We took Thailand out of the war.
1753233021370.png

Costa Rica decided to remain Neutral in this Conflict.
October 11, 1941 - The USSR announced that the Baltic is under Soviet Control. They appear to be lying. We do not see much Soviet Territory around the Baltic Sea. Perhaps they mean naval units.
October 13, 1941 - Okay. They were lying. The Baltic Sea is not under Soviet Control.
Meanwhile, the Japanese invaded the Philippines with 3 more Divisions. Well we still have 11 Divisions left behind.
1753234610574.png

October 22, 1941 - Once again, we counterattack in the Philippines.
1753237488144.png

October 25, 1941 - 5 Japanese Divisions destroyed.


Production:
September 30, 1941 - London Anti-Air Level 1
October 1, 1941 - Engineer and Medium Armor deployed to the King's African Rifles
October 4, 1941 - Hong Kong Air Base Level 6
October 8, 1941 - Infantry 58 23rd Northumbrian Division
October 24, 1941 - Portsmouth Radar Station Level 8
October 25, 1941 - London Anti-Air Level 2. We are predicting 0 Trick or Treaters for Halloween.
October 29, 1941 - Naval 3 No 16 RN Coastal Command
October 30, 1941 - Marine 1 2nd Royal Marine Division

Technology:
41-14 Naval Bomber completed September 25, 1941
41N Massive Strike Doctrine started September 25, 1941 by Harland and Wolff
41-15 Improved Encryption Devices completed October 1, 1941
41O Improved Decryption Devices started October 1, 1941 by Alan Turing
41-16 Deep Logistics Organization started October 5, 1941
41P Pre Planned Defense started October 5, 1941 by Alan Brooke
41-17 Minotaur Class Light Cruiser completed October 15, 1941
41Q Infantry Division started October 15, 1941 by Royal Small Arms Factory

War in the Pacific:
October 14, 1941 - Sunk 1 Japanese Convoy Transport at Polillo Islands off the Philippines.
October 21, 1941 - We got 7 Japanese Convoy Transports in the Formosa Strait.

Sunk Ships:
October 8, 1941 - DD6 KK 1 sunk in the South China Sea by HMS Courageous
CL3 IJN Oi sunk by HMS Courageous.
October 12, 1941 - CL3 IJN Tatsuta sunk by Aircraft off the Philippines.
October 15, 1941 - TP2 Dai 4 YusoSentai sunk in port in Baguio by Aircraft.
October 16, 1941 - TP3 Dai 2 YusoSentai sunk by HMS Curlew
TP3 Dai 1 YusoSentai sunk by HMS Colombo. 5 Transports to go.
October 17, 1941 - TP 2 Dai 7 YS sunk in port by aircraft. We know where these Transports are!
October 18, 1941 - CA4 IJN Ashigara sunk in port by aircraft. There goes one escort.
October 25, 1941 - SS4 61a Divisione di Sommerglubglub sunk in the Sea of Sicily by Destroyer Division 14. Next game we plan to give them names! Destroyer Division have 4 kills, one away from becoming a Destroyer Ace. It deserves a name! It is an F-Class Destroyer, so I suppose it starts with the letter F. Should we start with HMS Fame and Fortune?
October 26, 1941 - DD6 D4K sunk in port by aircraft. We now have 4 Transports to kill. Or we could let them live so they send us more troops to destroy.
October 28, 1941 - TP2 D5Y sunk in the Gulf of Lingahyen by aircraft.
October 29, 1941 - SS4 51a Divisione di Sommerglubglub sunk in the Lingurian Sea by HMS Ajax. The Italian Submarines seem to put up an amazing fight. Our Mediterranean Fleet is all wrecked now.

RIP List:
October 5, 1941 - 1 Convoy Transport lost at the Gulf of Tonkin. Sure enough, they are coming after our Invasion.
October 7, 1941 - 2 Convoy Transports and 1 Escort lost at Hong Kong, We estimate 38 Cruisers and Destroyers remaining.
October 8, 1941 - 9 Convoy Transports lost in the Bay of Mecklenburg. The German U-Boats are at large again.
October 11, 1941 - CL3 HMS Durban sunk by Dai 4 Kuchikutai outside Manilla. Their Transport Fleet found us and defeated our transport Fleet.
October 12, 1941 - 12 Convoy Transports and 1 Escort lost at Heligoland Bay.
October 21, 1941 - Italian Bombers got 1 Convoy Escort at the Sea of Sardinia.
October 22, 1941 - Italian Bombers got another Convoy Transport off the Coast of Algeria.

November 1, 1941 - We are two months away from witnessing how well Russia's two greatest Generals perform.
1753240793866.png

We are opening a little front in French Indochina. We don't know how to do an amphibious invasion without Marines and those are several months away.
1753240891120.png

One of our recent struggles has been keeping up our supplies. We seem to be shipping a lot overseas and our Allies appear to be easting a lot of them.
 
Riel Hamard said:
October 11, 1941 - The USSR announced that the Baltic is under Soviet Control. They appear to be lying. We do not see much Soviet Territory around the Baltic Sea. Perhaps they mean naval units.
Click to expand...

It does mean naval units, I think...

I'll be watching your naval strategy with interest...being on the receiving end of naval bombers isn't pretty...especially when getting capital ships is tough and I don't want to keep losing them.
 
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