Musings from Moscow

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Simple invasion tactics. Even for an idiot...

Originally posted by Dark Cloud
Thanks for answering my question Tom. (How can I break cavalry free and just assault with 100% infantry?)

When I tried this (separate cav. and inf. armies) in the past (on my initial attack) my (expensive) cavalry got there first and took a nasty hit. I will try again and test timing (AND test how big an idiot I am... ).

Too little sleep, too many trees in the forest...

What I forgot from my first GC (as England) -- which would have made a very short AAR -- is that armies move *and invade* at the speed of their slowest type of unit, no matter the relative mix. Thus, by organizing a cavalry army with a small number of infantry the cavalry army will arrive at the same time as an all infantry army (which can later be used to assault with 100% infantry). This is a useful 'combined arms' tactic.

You can also estimate the travel/invade times for separate all cavalry and all infantry armies, but this is obviously riskier. In the case of an attack on Ingermanland I found about a 7 day difference between pure cavalry and infantry armies and, hence, ordered my cavalry in 7 days after my infantry. It worked (they arrived simutaneously), but I certainly wouldn't generalize the 7 days to other attacks as several variables could be involved (including the leaders' stats). I think it's safer and much simpler (less micromanagement) to just add 1,000 infantry to a cavalry army to slow it down (as above).

Having experimented about 20 times with the tactics of taking Ingermanland, I think it's about time I got back to my GC game... Much appreciation and thanks to all for your tips on sieges and assaults!

DC

BTW, the last time I played this I got the damn province offered to me by the Teutonic Order as a peace settlement on May 22, 1492 after taking minmal losses. This is a rather nice improvement over the multi-year bloodbaths I began with.

 

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Re: Re: Ingermanland assault

Originally posted by SimonM
I tend to run a (mostly) cavalry force (10-15K) to Estonia and lay siege, and assult Ingermand with a series of 10 - 15K forces of infantry. The cav in Estonia keep the Teutons at bay, and once you've taken Ingermand, advance one province (Livonia for the screen and Estonia for the infantry) and take that. I've often found that I need both provinces to gain Ingermand in the peace.

AAAAHA. Thanks for spelling this out in detail. I have been able to acquire Ingermanland quickly by winning pitched battles and making a truly massive infantry assault (or two) on Ingermanland's fortress (to take it). Sometimes I move my mostly cavalry army to Estonia (as you suggest) to act as a buffer, but I usually don't have to take Estonia to win Ingermand in the peace. The difference may be that I am playing at the normal/normal level...

Originally posted by SimonM
Think Russian... You have a decent growth in manpower every year (18 to start), and the infantry is only 2d... Storming developed fortresses is expensive, but they are not developed at this point in the game...

Cheers!

Yes indeed, I am learning to treat my Russian infantry as cannon fodder!

Thankyou for your guidance!

DC

 

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Re: Re: My Current Situation with Mother Russia

Originally posted by chris8b


I made it in 1503 with a random conquistador during my current game. It was quite lucky and paid off huge returns as I had a Pacific CoT pop-up from my colonial city around 1520 that is collecting huge profits from China and Japan.

Almost makes me want to cheat!

Congratulations on exploiting the opportunity.

DC

 

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Re: Re: Re: Further advice

Originally posted by Solmyr


I've used that to good effect. Sometimes Plettenberg (Teutonic leader) moves to Onega with a huge army, and then sits there, attriting drastically. Meanwhile, I siege Ingermanland and Estonia.

Sounds like a strategy truly faithful to Russia!

DC

 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Further advice

Originally posted by Dark Cloud


Sounds like a strategy truly faithful to Russia!

DC

An even more Russian strategy is to do what I do - I recruit and send in an infantry army that doubles the enemy's attrition. My guys all die (beaten in battle + attrition), but Russian lives are cheap and Teutonic/Polish lives are expensive!

Gotta time it right, so the battle is still on when the end of the month (and attrition) arrives, but it can work! Make him pay until winter comes, and THEN the Teutons (or Poles, or whomever) really pay!

Russia can be fun in a way none of the others can match. It is also frustrating in ways the others cannot match...

 

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I call it the 'Slavic Shuffle' strategy. Get the other guy mad at you - this doesn't take much doing when the other guy is Poland or Teutonic Knights, who start at -199 Regard!
Then let him declare war on you, which ensures in almost every case that he will raise an army and invade. I build several mid-size armies in peacetime: 30,000 to 50,000 men each, some with artillery for sieges, others about 3 inf to 2 cav for battles.
The when the enemy troops start marching my way, I retreat! There's nothing finer than to see Polish cavalry or (expensive) Teutonic infantry melting away in front of Tver or Moscow while you watch them from comfortable winter quarters in Novgorod or Vladimir. When they've whittled themselves down enough, the counteroffense goes in - sometimes several armies in succession if they have better leaders or higher land tech: even if they beat the first two, by the time the third army arrives in the same month there isn't much left to fight.
This tactic is particularly effective against the Poles and Crimeans, who have largely cavalry armies. Once they make the mistake of marching cavalry into the woods/swamp provinces of Moscow, Novgorod, Ryazan, Tver, etc they are road kill to a strong infantry-artillery force with just a little cavalry added. Sieges are so much easier when there is no enemy field army left to slow you down!

 

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Originally posted by Boris Badanov
I call it the 'Slavic Shuffle' strategy. Get the other guy mad at you - this doesn't take much doing when the other guy is Poland or Teutonic Knights, who start at -199 Regard!
Then let him declare war on you, which ensures in almost every case that he will raise an army and invade... The when the enemy troops start marching my way, I retreat! There's nothing finer than to see Polish cavalry or (expensive) Teutonic infantry melting away in front of Tver or Moscow while you watch them from comfortable winter quarters in Novgorod or Vladimir...

I started playing Russia with this strategy in mind (as I think many of us do for obvious historic reasons...) and I have used it with success when attacked (especially by P-L). However, a critical part of your strategy that I have NOT been able to manage well is provoking a specific enemy to attack when I want him to. (Lots attack when my BB gets too high... ) Often closing my trade center to another country will provoke war, but I lose stability (1 I think) and give them a CB (if they don't already have one). I have not been able to anger another country into a DOW (immediately) through just diplomatic means (e.g., 'Claim Throne by Ancestry' option on dip. screen). Even forcing relations down to -200 doesn't bring an automatic DOW. How do you provoke an immediate DOW from another specific country???

Originally posted by Boris Badanov
This tactic is particularly effective against the Poles and Crimeans, who have largely cavalry armies. Once they make the mistake of marching cavalry into the woods/swamp provinces of Moscow, Novgorod, Ryazan, Tver, etc they are road kill to a strong infantry-artillery force with just a little cavalry added. Sieges are so much easier when there is no enemy field army left to slow you down!

Yet another indirect 'siege' strategy (that can be employed even when you attack, as suggested by Solmyr above).

DC

 

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There is no certainty in the timing of DOWs...
If the Regard is -200 and you keep provoking them with 'negative' diplomatic moves, they will eventually DOW you. If you want to speed it up, banning them from Trade (which gives you a Stability hit) is one way. Another is not to be in an alliance at the time. It's only been in a few instances, but it seems to me that if I'm not allied with anyone, or with anyone big, DOWs against me come faster. Of course, in that case the war may be harder too, especially if you are fighting a coalition so placed that they can actually combine their forces.
As a last resort, I'm always prepared to DOW Poland or the Teutonics myself, wait for them to make the first move, and if they don't invade somewhere and take whatever I can get.
It's been my experience (admittedly, with less than 20 total trials of all kinds) that when you DOW another country, they will invade you about 50% of the time, even with a vastly inferior force (spoiling attacks?). If they DOW you, they invade 100% of the time, again even with a vastly inferior force.
It has also been my experience (so far at least) that the AI pays absolutely no attention to the probable Attrition that will result from his invasion. I've seen armies of 60,000 - 80,000 Teutonic Knights march into Pskov and start a siege in October! I've also seen the Poles 'pile on' forces until they had 90,000+, mostly cavalry, 'besieging' Tver in the winter: a sure-fire recipe for enough horsemeat steaks to feed all of Russia for the entire next year...

 

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Provoking DOW.

Originally posted by Boris Badanov

It's been my experience (admittedly, with less than 20 total trials of all kinds) that when you DOW another country, they will invade you about 50% of the time, even with a vastly inferior force (spoiling attacks?). If they DOW you, they invade 100% of the time, again even with a vastly inferior force.

I've noted similar results, but some countries (leaders?) will attack 100% of the time even when you DOW them. A good example is the Teutonic Order when you attack Ingermanland early. If you wait just a few days they ALWAYS invade Onega. There seem to be a number of variables involved -- does anyone know what they are?

Originally posted by Boris Badanov

It has also been my experience (so far at least) that the AI pays absolutely no attention to the probable Attrition that will result from his invasion.

I've noted this also and, of course, used it to good effect. However, some of the enemy attacks are so absurd (suicidal) it actually detracts from the gameplay. I think this is a MAJOR AI glitch that could certainly be improved. Should we add it to the patch wish list?

DC

 

[Chris8b]

Re: Provoking DOW.

Originally posted by Dark Cloud


I've noted similar results, but some countries (leaders?) will attack 100% of the time even when you DOW them. A good example is the Teutonic Order when you attack Ingermanland early. If you wait just a few days they ALWAYS invade Onega. There seem to be a number of variables involved -- does anyone know what they are?




I've noted this also and, of course, used it to good effect. However, some of the enemy attacks are so absurd (suicidal) it actually detracts from the gameplay. I think this is a MAJOR AI glitch that could certainly be improved. Should we add it to the patch wish list?

DC

Yes Yes Yes. I find it horribly disctracting to see the AI pile fresh bodies of soldiers to die on top of others still warm underneath the Russian ice. The AI should consider the attrition and weigh it against the value of the assault/siege.

-Christopher