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Harain

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Jan 19, 2009
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Been playing since launch, and loving it so far.

Have been noticing quite a few bugs and some things that aren't actually bugs, more like flaws, so here goes:

Bugs:
- Stalled AI battles: i made another thread about this some time ago, and I think it's been confirmed. http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?559698-Stalled-AI-battles

- When you load or start a new game, if you drag to select an army, nothing will be selected. This only happens ONCE right after loading. Further drag selections work fine. Very minor bug, but should be fixed anyway.

- If you have 1 army selected and select another army, if will show the name of the previous army on top. to see the correct name of the new army you want to select, you have to unselect the previous army and then select the 1 you want. Also a very minor bug, but can be misleading.

- Army names can't be changed. Well, they actually CAN be changed, but the change doesn't stick: if you select 1 army, change its name, then unselect and select it again, the name reverts to the original. Should either be fixed or the ability to change names just removed.

- There are some instances where the son of your leader isn't the heir. No idea if this is by design, but it sounds weird. I can give 2 examples of this, very diferent cases though:
1- when you start a game as Izu (vassal of Uesugi), your leader always has 2 children (random sex). Even if 1 of them is male, you don't have an Heir for a few days. No biggie, but really should be fixed, because you get the 'No Heir' warning, which is just wrong.
2- when you start a new game as Shoni, your leader has a bunch of adult children and, in the few games I started, never was the oldest son the Heir. This is very bad, because if you buy Imperial Ranks for your son, it always goes to the oldest son, and since he won't inherit, it's basically wasted money. The solution would be either to ALWAYS have the oldest son be the Heir (as it should be imo). If for some reason this is by design, then at least make the Imperial Rank honor bonus go to the actual Heir instead of the oldest son.

- Merging armies is messed up: in ALL previous Paradox games you could never merge 2 or more armies if 1 of them was moving. In Sengoku you can, which provides us with a massive cheat (sorry guys, i love using this also, but it's unfair to the AI): If you have 2 armies in 1 zone, 1 of them is stopped and the other is moving to another zone, you can transfer units from 1 to the other, basically teleporting the stopped army to the other. This is a very nice cheat which I have been using all the time. If you time army movement right, you can transport armies over big distances in very much reduced time.

- When you finish a building, you can't start a construction till the following day. This is probably by design, I personally find it annoying and pointless. But the bug concerning this is the following: If you start building a guild in the same area and day that another building got completed (castle or market only), the respective Master (Cerimonies or Arms) will be stuck building nothing for the whole duration of the guild construction. If you return him to court before the guild is finished, the guild construction will be interrupted and you lose the money you spent.

- Loading times get impossible as the game advances: the game itself starts in maybe 10 seconds (great job there, compared to previous Paradox games) and when you start a new game, resigning and loading is almost instant. As the game progresses it get slower and slower. I had a game in 1550 when resigning took around 5 minutes and loading a saved game over 15 (!!!) minutes. This is not related to the size of the saved game file only, because the same game that took 15 minutes to load after resigning, takes only 2 or 3 minutes to load if you quit and restart the game (still a lot but well... manageable). Please look into this.

ok, that's it for pure bugs. Now for things that are probably by design, but which are either just plain wrong, or are annoying and should be improved:

- The whole game is based on characters, which makes sense because of the way the game works, but this causes some problems I think you overlooked, namely, the messaging system. In all Paradox games, messages are by country, which was very nice and easy to manage, but here, because of messages being by character there are a few annoying isues.
For example: I want to know when my own hostages are returned, so i set the hostages return messages to primary and pause game. I also want to know when a war between clans start, so I set the war declaration to primary and pause game.
The problem with this is that to see the war declarations, I need to set the 'All Rulers' option, but this option will also make ALL hostages returned from any clan show up and pause the game.
This is very annoying: I have to choose to get spammed by hostage messages or not see war declarations (which I very much want to see).
Because of the way the messaging system is set, I don't see any easy way for you to change this, maybe make war declaration and similar (civil wars, clans separating etc) global instead of character based. I'd be very thankful for a change like this, since I really like to know what's going on with other clans, but the spam I get now from the hostages is just too bad to handle.

- More about messages: could you please add a message type for when a clan is destroyed? As it is now, you can't get any type of message for it. No biggie, but would be nice to have it.

- Still more about messages: you should get a message when a vassal conquers a province or when a vassal's province is besieged (I know you can filter to 'All Vassals' but then you get spammed... read 2 points above)

- Now for my main issue about how the game works and land is given out. This has been annoying me no end, and the only way I have to keep playing this game, is by editing the saved game file to redistribute the land as I see fit. The thing is, I like my Daymios to have the 5 Kori in the same Kuni, and because of the way the 1st army to arrive at a kori takes it, I basically race with my vassals all the time, and even let them get killed when they beat me to a province. Even so, in late game on large scale wars, it's impossible to beat all of them, so I end up having to edit the saved game file to rearrange stuff. I've noticed other threads about this, so I guess other people agree.
I can think of at least 3 ways to fix this pleasing everyone:
1- Instead (or in addition) of the 'Revoke Title' option, give us an 'Exchange Title' diplomatic option, where you could ask 1 of your vassal to exchange 1 kori with you or another vassal.
2- If a clan leader has an army besieging a province, it will always capture it, even if the vassals arrived 1st.
3- When a vassal captures a province, give the clan leader a popup option to grant him the province or to keep it yourself (at some honor cost, 5 maybe)
I like the 3rd option best, but either of the 3 would satisfy me, and I bet you can think of other ways, but PLEASE change this because it's killing the game for me...

Ok, that's all I can think of. I probably forgot some since I didn't take notes.

Also, I'd like to apologize if some or many of these have already been addressed in the forums, but I didn't really check much.

Anyway, gratz for a very nice game :)
 
Upvote 0
In the future, please make a separate thread for each issue. It's difficult to keep track of which bugs are fixed on a list. When they are written separately we can answer separately to each of them. On the other hand: Don't worry about reporting minor bugs. All bugs are of value for us, and we are deciding which ones are worth fixing

- When you load or start a new game, if you drag to select an army, nothing will be selected. This only happens ONCE right after loading. Further drag selections work fine. Very minor bug, but should be fixed anyway.

I could not reproduce it, but I think it might be caused by alt-tabs. If you are using other programs, it can take one click to get back to the game. If your first click is a drag, it won't work.

- If you have 1 army selected and select another army, if will show the name of the previous army on top. to see the correct name of the new army you want to select, you have to unselect the previous army and then select the 1 you want. Also a very minor bug, but can be misleading.

I'm not sure what you mean. When I select one army, and then include this army in a mouse drag it is in a fixed position, and not on top. How do you select multiple armies?

- Army names can't be changed. Well, they actually CAN be changed, but the change doesn't stick: if you select 1 army, change its name, then unselect and select it again, the name reverts to the original. Should either be fixed or the ability to change names just removed.

Confirmed. I am reporting it in our internal bug forum.

- There are some instances where the son of your leader isn't the heir. No idea if this is by design, but it sounds weird. I can give 2 examples of this, very diferent cases though:
1- when you start a game as Izu (vassal of Uesugi), your leader always has 2 children (random sex). Even if 1 of them is male, you don't have an Heir for a few days. No biggie, but really should be fixed, because you get the 'No Heir' warning, which is just wrong.
2- when you start a new game as Shoni, your leader has a bunch of adult children and, in the few games I started, never was the oldest son the Heir.

Could not reproduce. I started both cases but my oldest son is my heir in both cases and I do not get any 'No Heir' warning. I am always running the latest patched version so I suspect this has been fixed.


- Merging armies is messed up: in ALL previous Paradox games you could never merge 2 or more armies if 1 of them was moving. In Sengoku you can, which provides us with a massive cheat (sorry guys, i love using this also, but it's unfair to the AI): If you have 2 armies in 1 zone, 1 of them is stopped and the other is moving to another zone, you can transfer units from 1 to the other, basically teleporting the stopped army to the other. This is a very nice cheat which I have been using all the time. If you time army movement right, you can transport armies over big distances in very much reduced time.

Known issue. As you say: Massive cheat and it deserves its very high place on our priority list.

- When you finish a building, you can't start a construction till the following day. This is probably by design, I personally find it annoying and pointless. But the bug concerning this is the following: If you start building a guild in the same area and day that another building got completed (castle or market only), the respective Master (Cerimonies or Arms) will be stuck building nothing for the whole duration of the guild construction. If you return him to court before the guild is finished, the guild construction will be interrupted and you lose the money you spent.

It's not by design. It is a known issue. We are working on it.

- Loading times get impossible as the game advances: the game itself starts in maybe 10 seconds (great job there, compared to previous Paradox games) and when you start a new game, resigning and loading is almost instant. As the game progresses it get slower and slower. I had a game in 1550 when resigning took around 5 minutes and loading a saved game over 15 (!!!) minutes. This is not related to the size of the saved game file only, because the same game that took 15 minutes to load after resigning, takes only 2 or 3 minutes to load if you quit and restart the game (still a lot but well... manageable). Please look into this.

I have confirmed this as fixed in the upcoming patch.


- The whole game is based on characters, which makes sense because of the way the game works, but this causes some problems I think you overlooked, namely, the messaging system. In all Paradox games, messages are by country, which was very nice and easy to manage, but here, because of messages being by character there are a few annoying isues.
For example: I want to know when my own hostages are returned, so i set the hostages return messages to primary and pause game. I also want to know when a war between clans start, so I set the war declaration to primary and pause game.
The problem with this is that to see the war declarations, I need to set the 'All Rulers' option, but this option will also make ALL hostages returned from any clan show up and pause the game.

Unsure if this is already fixed or not, but it is a known issue, and we are working on it, specially the war declaration.

- More about messages: could you please add a message type for when a clan is destroyed? As it is now, you can't get any type of message for it. No biggie, but would be nice to have it.

Sounds like a good idea. I am adding it as a suggestion in our internal bug forum.

- Still more about messages: you should get a message when a vassal conquers a province or when a vassal's province is besieged (I know you can filter to 'All Vassals' but then you get spammed... read 2 points above)

You can see it as friendly and hostile sieges in the outliner. Personally I think it is better than messages as to many massages will only lead to users not reading through all of them.

- Now for my main issue about how the game works and land is given out. This has been annoying me no end, and the only way I have to keep playing this game, is by editing the saved game file to redistribute the land as I see fit. The thing is, I like my Daymios to have the 5 Kori in the same Kuni, and because of the way the 1st army to arrive at a kori takes it, I basically race with my vassals all the time, and even let them get killed when they beat me to a province. Even so, in late game on large scale wars, it's impossible to beat all of them, so I end up having to edit the saved game file to rearrange stuff. I've noticed other threads about this, so I guess other people agree.
I can think of at least 3 ways to fix this pleasing everyone:
1- Instead (or in addition) of the 'Revoke Title' option, give us an 'Exchange Title' diplomatic option, where you could ask 1 of your vassal to exchange 1 kori with you or another vassal.
2- If a clan leader has an army besieging a province, it will always capture it, even if the vassals arrived 1st.
3- When a vassal captures a province, give the clan leader a popup option to grant him the province or to keep it yourself (at some honor cost, 5 maybe)
I like the 3rd option best, but either of the 3 would satisfy me, and I bet you can think of other ways, but PLEASE change this because it's killing the game for me...

Personally I don't like options 2 and 3 because they make vassals even harder to play than they are today. The game is designed to be played as clan leader, but you should be able to play as a Kokujin. Right not it's very hard, and according to our QA team: "Not very fun". We don't want to kill ALL the fun. Anyway I will put it up as a suggestion.
 
Thx for the reply, you cleared most points, except 1, so I will open a new thread for it.

About my last suggestion, if you don't like my ideas for solving the issue, then please make the team think of a way for the player to reorganize his vassals regions. I hate how the map looks when vassals start taking areas left and right and a way for us to keep everything tidy would be very nice. As it is now, being a tidyness freak, I am forced to edit the save game file to rearrange them. A real pain.
 
I understand your pain. I have reported it as a suggestion and we will definitely take it into consideration. Anyway, the first suggestion is really good. I would love an option of exchanging kori with your vassals.
 
I liked the Mount & Blade System. The Clan takes over another clans territory, and after provincess are conquered the clan leader gets to disperse lands to his vassals, with priority given to vassals who haven't gotten land in a while, and vassals who personally took part in the siege. And as the Clan leader can really only control 5 kuni (without massive penalties) I feel this would work out well. That way even the little guys in your domain who don't field as large an army as your other vassals get some land now and then. I think there should be a whole new diplomacy screen for this, and all for the rearranging of territory centered on neat regions for Daimyo titles.
 
I liked the Mount & Blade System. The Clan takes over another clans territory, and after provincess are conquered the clan leader gets to disperse lands to his vassals, with priority given to vassals who haven't gotten land in a while, and vassals who personally took part in the siege. And as the Clan leader can really only control 5 kuni (without massive penalties) I feel this would work out well. That way even the little guys in your domain who don't field as large an army as your other vassals get some land now and then. I think there should be a whole new diplomacy screen for this, and all for the rearranging of territory centered on neat regions for Daimyo titles.

They reason they don't want to do something like that, is because then a human player would have no chance playing a vassal.

There's an easy solution though: different rules for AI and player, meaning, if the player is the vassal, current rules apply, if the player is the clan leader, all captured land would belong to him... very easy solution, would make everyone happy imo
 
Yeah I think it would make for some very interesting mechanics though, especially if the Player shows favoritism to certain vassals, and neglects others, causing the neglected to band together and rise up. Or if the Player is being greedy and keeping all land for himself. Causing his vassals who fought valiantly to rebel.

Would also be one more way to bring down the big blobs, the big blobs who are greedy are gonna have a fistful of angry vassals!
 
This discussion is probably best in the suggestions section, but I may as well contribute here until it's moved:

3- When a vassal captures a province, give the clan leader a popup option to grant him the province or to keep it yourself (at some honor cost, 5 maybe)

This would be my suggestion too. It gives credit for the first to arrive, but allows an instant reassignment by the current clan leader if need be. I would also place a reputation hit in there too, so possibly 1/2 the honor and rep of a removal of province currently.

Another aspect that I've been struggling with is that the majority of the game revolves around "Might makes right" apart from this section. I would have thought that the owner of the largest army would have more claim on the territory than the first that got there. This scenario has come up many times:

I'm at war with another clan that was also at war with others. I come to a province with 10,000 men that is sieged by another clan with only 1000 men. We win the siege and the title goes to them. They are not even a vassal, so it does not even benifit me to move that way. It is better to let the ones I am at war with remove them before sieging myself. It makes an interesting dance, but not very logical.

On the flip side, I have used the land-grab mechanism extensively and it makes the game incredibly easy, even when playing as vassals.

A "might makes right" condition could possibly look like:
[Strength of army] X [number of months] for all participants.
Overall winner can keep the land (with penalties in reputation toward other contributors depending on the size of their contribution) or gift to another contributor for a positive reputation bonus (and an honor bonus if it is your liege) depending on the difference between your contribution and theirs.

This would allow vassals to camp out a province for about a year and still have the right to claim it over a larger army, but not sneak in 1 day before the main stack and jag a province. I'd gladly reward a vassal that took that risk, or conversely would feel aggrieved if I had spent significant risk as a vassal exposing my small retinue for an extended period and still not be granted the province. It would also clear up another bugbear of mine in that if you combine armies with the original stack that arrived, you lose the claim and ability to initiate attack to any other retinue in the same province.
 
There's lots of possible solutions, I just hope they change how it is atm, cause it's just terrible as it is.
Let the Clan leader get all land or let the Clan leader rearrange their land as they see fit, either works.

As a side not: where the hell is Artfox? C'mon man, we need some feedback on our bugs, it's been 4 days :p