Names That Would Better Suit Countries

[JKiller96]

1. Bahmanis- The better name for 'the Bahmanis' would be Bahmani. As in the 'Bahmani Sultanate' or Bahmani Kingdom. Bahmanis makes almost no sense, considering it was a single sultanate under the BahmaniD dynasty. So if anything, it should be Bahmanids if we're referring to the dynasty, not the state.
2. Vijayanagar- Vijayanagara would be a better name and would help in pronunciation. People usually mess this one up in the weirdest way.
3. Air- Air is usually spelled Aïr, but given that we can't get that in game, it should be named Agadez (They are virtually interchangeable)
4. Macina- Macina doesn't exist in 1444 and should probably be owned by Mali, but that would make balance uneven, change Macina to Segu and make their state religion Animist to symbolize the Bambara empire that existed must closer to 1444 than the end game Macina.
5. Kanem Bornu- Change the name to just Borno, Kanem Bornu doesn't exist during the EU4 time.
6. Chagatai- Chagatai should be Moghulistan to differentiate it from the 2 previous instances of the Chagatai state, and this version in EU4 was more known as Moghulistan.
7. Baluchistan- Renamed to Kalat, an actual historical entity that existed in much of the area a bit later in the EU4 timeline.
8. U-tsang- Utsang is a region, Rinpungpa is the state.
9. Kham- Again, Kham is a region, Derge was the primary kingdom in the region at the time.
Honorable mentions;
Ethiopia--> Abyssinia
Hejaz--> Mecca

 

[AirikrStrife]

In a suggestion for westafrica i still havent published I change the name of Macina to Diafonu. Diafonu is largely a regional name. the region at this point had Broken away from the Collapsing Mali Empire and would thus be better represented as Independent. Thoughin reality It would be a lot of small Tribal Kingdoms some of them still under Mali influence

 

[SantoshKashyap]

On a lighter note, why should a country without Hindus be still called Hindustan.

 

[SantoshKashyap]

Well Vijayanagar to Vijayanagara, won't help much with pronunciation, unless it is shown split Vijay-Nagar, thats a choice.

It was also called Karnata Kingdom. Portuguese used to call it Bisnegar.


Bahamani:
After 1518 the kingdom got divided into five smaller ones like Barishahi (Bidar), Kutbshahi (of Golkonda), Nizamshahi (of Ahmadnagar), Idamshahi (of Berar) and Adilshahi (of Bijapur), known collectively as the Deccan sultanates. Since they were part of the Bahamani Kingdom once some historians tend to collectively call these Deccan Sultnates as the Bahamanis.

 

[Dakka]

On a lighter note, why should a country without Hindus be still called Hindustan.

Because that is the name the Persians and Mughals referred to India by, which is why Hindustan is the Muslim Formable.

I'd like to see Korea changed to Joseon

 

[JKiller96]

On a lighter note, why should a country without Hindus be still called Hindustan.

Hindustan doesn't refer to the religion of Hinduism but the river Indus in modern Pakistan and the surrounding area. Although it doesn't make sense for a Muslim Dravidian country to be called Hindustan, more likely Deccan would be better for a Dravidian.

 

[SantoshKashyap]

Hindustan doesn't refer to the religion of Hinduism but the river Indus in modern Pakistan and the surrounding area. Although it doesn't make sense for a Muslim Dravidian country to be called Hindustan, more likely Deccan would be better for a Dravidian.

Yeah, Mughlistan theories.

The question is about the exonyms for that matter even the word Hindu is not Indian. If Islam was the majority religion would this land still be called Hindustan. Delhi Sultanate was as big as Mughals (more or less) they were still Sultanate. Empire of Sur didnt call themselves Hindustan although they were as large as Mughals in 16th century.

Deccan (Dakkhin) is a Bengali word meaning the South again an exonym.

 

[SantoshKashyap]

Now this may sound not logical to many but for the sake of argument, If Persians called people living beyond Indus as Hindus and their land Hindustan; and if it is to be believed that it has nothing to do with religion, then why Hindustan be exclusive to Muslims.

 

[JKiller96]

Now this may sound not logical to many but for the sake of argument, If Persians called people living beyond Indus as Hindus and their land Hindustan; and if it is to be believed that it has nothing to do with religion, then why Hindustan be exclusive to Muslims.

Personally, I do hate the name of Hindustan and Bharat and opt to make Hindustan 'Pakistan' and Bharat India, even though Pakistan was created much later, I like it as a name for Muslim state

 

[Trin Tragula]

These are certainly alternate names for some of the tags in the game but I'm not sure I think you've argued for what makes them better.

In some cases you want to replace state names that are regional but in common use, with capital names (such as air vs agadez) but you don't mention countless of similar states in the game (Carnatic, Khorasan). Here we prefer the wider names as they make it less weird if the capital moves.
In other cases you want to rename a tags so they are not named after regions they are in (Baluchistan, Kham) but you dislike Chagatai and want that renamed after the region Moghulistan.

As for Bahmanis, they follow the same logic as the Mughals and the Ottomans (neither of these have an s because they represent many different states either, like the Bahmanis, they don't). They are also frequently referred to both with -id and -is ending, as are many Muslim dynasties. I am not sure why one would be better than the other.

I do agree about Vijayanagar/a though I doubt it will help with pronunciation.

Personally, I do hate the name of Hindustan and Bharat and opt to make Hindustan 'Pakistan' and Bharat India, even though Pakistan was created much later, I like it as a name for Muslim state

In a mod you can do as you wish of course. For vanilla though even if we ignore the way and time the name was conceived, the actual original meaning of Pak-istan would fit a South Indian formed tag very poorly.

As for Hindus vs Hindusthan: the etymology is more or less the other way around. Hindus are called so because they inhabited the land of Hindusthan (i.e. Beyond the Indus). It's an exonym that became the accepted term for the entire religion thanks to the British.
Unlike many other terms Hindusthan was also used in titles by actual sultanates that existed in the timeframe. Most famously the Mughals (I can recommend an article by the late M Athar Ali about Akbar thoughts on the name if you're interested) though they themselves identified more often with their dynasty than their lands. Europeans also frequently referred to the Mughals as "emperor of Hindusthan".
Bharat is of course derived directly from old Hindu history, traditions and mythology, and it is also the name the actual independent India chose for themselves when they formed.

You could argue all religions should form one state: India, but then you'd have Muslim and Hindu names entirely mixed and you'd also end up with it all United under another (Greek) exonym, that wasn't even more common at the time.
As this is a fantasy state (India unified prior to colonialism in the early modern era) we cannot really name it after what historians or popular culture calls it, as they don't call it anything.

 

[JKiller96]

These are certainly alternate names for some of the tags in the game but I'm not sure I think you've argued for what makes them better.

In some cases you want to replace state names that are regional but in common use, with capital names (such as air vs agadez) but you don't mention countless of similar states in the game (Carnatic, Khorasan). Here we prefer the wider names as they make it less weird if the capital moves.
In other cases you want to rename a tags so they are not named after regions they are in (Baluchistan, Kham) but you dislike Chagatai and want that renamed after the region Moghulistan.

As for Bahmanis, they follow the same logic as the Mughals and the Ottomans (neither of these have an s because they represent many different states either, like the Bahmanis, they don't). They are also frequently referred to both with -id and -is ending, as are many Muslim dynasties. I am not sure why one would be better than the other.

I do agree about Vijayanagar/a though I doubt it will help with pronunciation.



In a mod you can do as you wish of course. For vanilla though even if we ignore the way and time the name was conceived, the actual original meaning of Pak-istan would fit a South Indian formed tag very poorly.

As for Hindus vs Hindusthan: the etymology is more or less the other way around. Hindus are called so because they inhabited the land of Hindusthan (i.e. Beyond the Indus). It's an exonym that became the accepted term for the entire religion thanks to the British.
Unlike many other terms Hindusthan was also used in titles by actual sultanates that existed in the timeframe. Most famously the Mughals (I can recommend an article by the late M Athar Ali about Akbar thoughts on the name if you're interested) though they themselves identified more often with their dynasty than their lands. Europeans also frequently referred to the Mughals as "emperor of Hindusthan".
Bharat is of course derived directly from old Hindu history, traditions and mythology, and it is also the name the actual independent India chose for themselves when they formed.

You could argue all religions should form one state: India, but then you'd have Muslim and Hindu names entirely mixed and you'd also end up with it all United under another (Greek) exonym, that wasn't even more common at the time.
As this is a fantasy state (India unified prior to colonialism in the early modern era) we cannot really name it after what historians or popular culture calls it, as they don't call it anything.

I see your points. Bahmanis just sounds odd though but I also see how in your case that Vijayanagara would be a better name, differentiating it from its capital.
Oh and what about Macina?

 

[SantoshKashyap]

Personally, I do hate the name of Hindustan and Bharat and opt to make Hindustan 'Pakistan' and Bharat India, even though Pakistan was created much later, I like it as a name for Muslim state

I wished your purpose were more objective. The idea of Pakistan didn't form till 1934.

 

[SantoshKashyap]

These are certainly alternate names for some of the tags in the game but I'm not sure I think you've argued for what makes them better.

In some cases you want to replace state names that are regional but in common use, with capital names (such as air vs agadez) but you don't mention countless of similar states in the game (Carnatic, Khorasan). Here we prefer the wider names as they make it less weird if the capital moves.
In other cases you want to rename a tags so they are not named after regions they are in (Baluchistan, Kham) but you dislike Chagatai and want that renamed after the region Moghulistan.

As for Bahmanis, they follow the same logic as the Mughals and the Ottomans (neither of these have an s because they represent many different states either, like the Bahmanis, they don't). They are also frequently referred to both with -id and -is ending, as are many Muslim dynasties. I am not sure why one would be better than the other.

I do agree about Vijayanagar/a though I doubt it will help with pronunciation.



In a mod you can do as you wish of course. For vanilla though even if we ignore the way and time the name was conceived, the actual original meaning of Pak-istan would fit a South Indian formed tag very poorly.

As for Hindus vs Hindusthan: the etymology is more or less the other way around. Hindus are called so because they inhabited the land of Hindusthan (i.e. Beyond the Indus). It's an exonym that became the accepted term for the entire religion thanks to the British.
Unlike many other terms Hindusthan was also used in titles by actual sultanates that existed in the timeframe. Most famously the Mughals (I can recommend an article by the late M Athar Ali about Akbar thoughts on the name if you're interested) though they themselves identified more often with their dynasty than their lands. Europeans also frequently referred to the Mughals as "emperor of Hindusthan".
Bharat is of course derived directly from old Hindu history, traditions and mythology, and it is also the name the actual independent India chose for themselves when they formed.

You could argue all religions should form one state: India, but then you'd have Muslim and Hindu names entirely mixed and you'd also end up with it all United under another (Greek) exonym, that wasn't even more common at the time.
As this is a fantasy state (India unified prior to colonialism in the early modern era) we cannot really name it after what historians or popular culture calls it, as they don't call it anything.

Just to have more clarity. I am not sure why Ottomans are called Ottomans as a country. Mughals too must been called similarly, I am just guessing. Here in India even in senior academics Mughals mean those people, the rulers of the Mughal Empire and not the country tag. Mughal India or Hindustan or Mughal Empire but never just Mughals.

Why cant we have just Hindustan for the Mughals? And for the fantasy alternate history tags create Sultanate-e-Hind (or a better reference name, Pakistan is not only inappropriate for the period but will also misrepresent for the entire geography) for Muslim India and Bharat for Hindu India.

 

[Trin Tragula]

TBH I wouldnt mind Hindusthan for the Mughals myself (and I did it like that in a mod once upon a time) but switching names around between tags like that would seem a bit confusing at this point for vanilla.

 

[Andrelvis]

These are certainly alternate names for some of the tags in the game but I'm not sure I think you've argued for what makes them better.

In some cases you want to replace state names that are regional but in common use, with capital names (such as air vs agadez) but you don't mention countless of similar states in the game (Carnatic, Khorasan). Here we prefer the wider names as they make it less weird if the capital moves.
In other cases you want to rename a tags so they are not named after regions they are in (Baluchistan, Kham) but you dislike Chagatai and want that renamed after the region Moghulistan.

As for Bahmanis, they follow the same logic as the Mughals and the Ottomans (neither of these have an s because they represent many different states either, like the Bahmanis, they don't). They are also frequently referred to both with -id and -is ending, as are many Muslim dynasties. I am not sure why one would be better than the other.

I do agree about Vijayanagar/a though I doubt it will help with pronunciation.



In a mod you can do as you wish of course. For vanilla though even if we ignore the way and time the name was conceived, the actual original meaning of Pak-istan would fit a South Indian formed tag very poorly.

As for Hindus vs Hindusthan: the etymology is more or less the other way around. Hindus are called so because they inhabited the land of Hindusthan (i.e. Beyond the Indus). It's an exonym that became the accepted term for the entire religion thanks to the British.
Unlike many other terms Hindusthan was also used in titles by actual sultanates that existed in the timeframe. Most famously the Mughals (I can recommend an article by the late M Athar Ali about Akbar thoughts on the name if you're interested) though they themselves identified more often with their dynasty than their lands. Europeans also frequently referred to the Mughals as "emperor of Hindusthan".
Bharat is of course derived directly from old Hindu history, traditions and mythology, and it is also the name the actual independent India chose for themselves when they formed.

You could argue all religions should form one state: India, but then you'd have Muslim and Hindu names entirely mixed and you'd also end up with it all United under another (Greek) exonym, that wasn't even more common at the time.
As this is a fantasy state (India unified prior to colonialism in the early modern era) we cannot really name it after what historians or popular culture calls it, as they don't call it anything.

It's so nice to see the how much you care for this sort of topic It's this sort of attention to detail that makes Paradox games great!

 

[Calanon]

Speaking of country name changes, would it be possible to rename Aquileia to Friuli? Patria del Friuli was the name of the state.
I personally think Alba would be better than Gaeldom.
Bourbonnais should be renamed to Bourbon whilst the province should be renamed to Bourbonnais.

 

[JKiller96]

I wasn't suggesting we change it to Pakistan, I was just stating that I like it. In no way should it be renamed to Pakistan