Nation setup

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by metroncho

I was a bit surprised with all the questioning of Persian trade tech, but the forgetfullness of another addition: Russian manufacturies. With the new penalties for the orthodox techgroup i think Russia gets too much an early advantage, especially over Poland. She is able to stay on par technologically with most of the West, and that even without any expansion in Siberia.

I will assume you are talking around 1600, since you give no date for your data.

I will give you one crucial bit of advice, when using AI controlled hands-off games to form your conclusions:

The AI does not have the same inflation problems as humans when your hands-off nation suffers 0% inflation. This is especially important when considering relatively poor countries like Russia, that often need to mint coin.

In your example, it would seem (from the sketchy information), that we are talking about a Russia that did not expand much (thus keeping countrysize and techcosts down), while probably staying at low inflation (due to AI discounts). Thus the manufactories effect is comparatively greater than they would be in human hands, and Russia's success tech-wise not that strange. On the other hand, her income is probably still pretty low.

As for France performing so miserably in AI hands that it did not reach trade 3, probably busy in Europe fighting wars and appointing tax collectors, I fail to see that as an argument against Persia having trade 3

 

[metroncho]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen
I will assume you are talking around 1600, since you give no date for your data.

I will give you one crucial bit of advice, when using AI controlled hands-off games to form your conclusions:

The AI does not have the same inflation problems as humans when your hands-off nation suffers 0% inflation. This is especially important when considering relatively poor countries like Russia, that often need to mint coin.

In your example, it would seem (from the sketchy information), that we are talking about a Russia that did not expand much (thus keeping countrysize and techcosts down), while probably staying at low inflation (due to AI discounts). Thus the manufactories effect is comparatively greater than they would be in human hands, and Russia's success tech-wise not that strange. On the other hand, her income is probably still pretty low.

As for France performing so miserably in AI hands that it did not reach trade 3, probably busy in Europe fighting wars and appointing tax collectors, I fail to see that as an argument against Persia having trade 3

My mistake, it was till jan. 1600 (edited)

Russia expanded a bit in the wool muslim mongol provinces north of Caucasus.
However it´s not the first time i see Russia performing too well, human or AI, in the military field, while getting trade and infra 3. That was even with the old tech penalties. I think we have a risk to have a too powerful Russia too early in the game. I´m the only one with some concerns about it, so i guess we´ll check in-game if that is true or false.
You know, i´m not so opposed to give Persia trade 3 as you might think . But it would be unfair to give her that and not France or even Mughals. And so on. A possible good solution, as you proposed (i think) was to make road to trade 3 half made. So she could reach with a some effort, but relatively early.

True, i didn´t consider inflation in the analysis. For Persia it could be important. But at least over this Russian issue, i guess the human player could use a war taxing tactic.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by metroncho

True, i didn´t consider inflation in the analysis. For Persia it could be important. But at least over this Russian issue, i guess the human player could use a war taxing tactic.

Actually, inflation is not that dangerous to Persia, due to a few very high tax provinces. However, it is not uncommon to see a human controlled Russia that has to deal with 20% inflation or more, from the cost of expanding and fighting, since census taxes are low.

 

[metroncho]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen
Actually, inflation is not that dangerous to Persia, due to a few very high tax provinces. However, it is not uncommon to see a human controlled Russia that has to deal with 20% inflation or more, from the cost of expanding and fighting, since census taxes are low.

Somehow i manage to get the opposite . But i usually fought Ottomans with Persia and mostly the khanates as Russia.
Nevertheless i guess you are right. Coming to mind, in Tsunami Persia had quite a low inflation

 

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen
Actually, inflation is not that dangerous to Persia, due to a few very high tax provinces. However, it is not uncommon to see a human controlled Russia that has to deal with 20% inflation or more, from the cost of expanding and fighting, since census taxes are low.

The Golden Hordes gold province (Samarka sp?) is the only thing that should give Russia any significant inflation (I got about 7% total from that in the Tsunami game), and with the new 40% cut off level even that might not give any now. Otherwise in human hands at least I see no reason for excessive inflation for Russia, wartaxing can finance all her early gains pretty easily unless Sweden turns uber hostile or something like that or you decide to go on a big bad boy spree before gaining any of your cores.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Peter's Age of Explorations 1.04 ready for download (link in my .sig)

Release notes:

Release 1.0.4. April 2nd, 2003: "The Persia Nerfing Release"
------------------------------------------------------------

Persia
* Changed dp-sliders yet again. Now 7/3/3/9/9/5/2/7. The Persians are now narrowminded decentralised landgrubbers with 0 colonists/year as some vocal people found appropriate
* Tech 5/4/2/2. No longer granted trade 3 for the great importance of Persian traders on the Silk Road due to the howls of the Euro-centric, Persia is reduced to trade 2 with 10,000 invested in trade, leaving only 10,500 to reach trade 3. The bonus to naval and infrastructure got wiped as well. As a sop, got the option to assault fortresses with land 5. Woohoo.

Timurids
* Tech 4/3/2/2. Bonuses to trade and infrastructure wiped in a preemptive strike. Left the land tech bonus. It insures that the "Bâburs Ambition" gives the Timurids just enough land tech to assault.

Yippee. The trade reduction and the dp-changes cost Persia about 20% of her monthly income. Hope that is enough to satisfy everybody.

Some fine day, I will begin lobbying for a reduction of the muslim techgroup modifier


EDIT: Now my sig links to the correct file

 

[Wyvern]

Awe, you hurt my poor Mughals . Naughty boy