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RedRalphWiggum

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Aug 10, 2008
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I’m shortly going to start a game as the Netherlands with the intention of annexing Belgium and Luxembourg, and forming some substantial African colonies.

Any good tips on how best to achieve this?
 
You're somewhat limited by lack of resources in Netherlands proper, so it's often hard to industrialize early on. If you can get into the French or Prussian market, that can help, otherwise you have to trade for iron, steel, and tools. Other than that, it's a fairly safe and easy playthrough. Netherlands starts with pretty good laws and excellent education, and good relations with all the relevant great powers. Just make sure to build up a large army and ideally get a tech advantage before going after Belgium, since it's very likely that France, Britain, or Prussia will defend them.
 
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I am currently playing Netherlands to test new trading features. Early game, I got treaty port in China with British help. First company I took was Clothing. Next I spammed trade centers in Holand and treaty port to benefit from cheap fabric and silk from China. Every other resources I am getting through trade. Enacted free trade and created trade power bloc to get more trade advantage bonuses. Right now I am biggest clothes producer and starting to look at south africa: annexed zulu and trying to get boer republics into my sphere dyplomatically.
 
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Why it should be hard with the whole Indonesia resources? Just conquer Indonesia or wait until your subject do it.
Since the Dutch East Indies and their puppets don't get your tech, their mines tend to be pretty unproductive, especially in the mid game, and it can be hard to build there if they AI mismanages their population and gets high turmoil and revolts.
 
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The biggest problem as the Netherlands is a lack of iron right at the start. You should beeline Benin or the Boer republics to help out with this.

For taking Belgium, the other powers can’t honor their guarantee after the conference if you have an obligation from them. In my game I managed to ally Prussia early and then got an obligation from France and the UK and grabbed Belgium in about 1845-1850. You probably need either France or Prussia as an ally (need a land border for them to actually commit) to take Belgium quickly- their army is ~100 units which is 3-4x larger than yours at the start of the game and your economy sucks, you won’t be able to support more.

It would have been faster but I didn’t know quite how obligations worked from treaties at the time since they just added this in the recent (beta?) patch. It turns out that obligations take 5 years to generate from treaties so you need to plan ahead.
 
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Since the Dutch East Indies and their puppets don't get your tech, their mines tend to be pretty unproductive, especially in the mid game, and it can be hard to build there if they AI mismanages their population and gets high turmoil and revolts.
Can't annex? Just give them a province and they are happy.
 
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The biggest problem as the Netherlands is a lack of iron right at the start. You should beeline Benin or the Boer republics to help out with this.

This is kinda a consideration made from a "autartic perspetive", its a perfectly valid strategy to secure your own resources however i have my doubts if thats nesecarily the optimal way to play the Netherlands rather than "leaning more into trade" to secure various needed resources especially since patch 1.9 so the feedback of Bananson is worth exploring too as in he's focussing more on a form of specialty production and trade as opposed to autartic production. Specialty production is just more complex and less explored as it was hard to do pre 1.9 but what ive glimsed of 1.9 it should be possible to focus on certain limited spezializations and possibly thrive on that for which some country's are better possitioned and The Netherlands would be one of the notably most potent candidates. The Netherlands starts out with a large merchant marine and plenty of big markets around it to which it has easy access.

Another thing that is well beyond autartic considerations per sé is how the Netherlands should set its trade policy so as to capitalize on having a big colony. Tariff policy should likely be set in a fashion by which the Netherlands takes a profit on Indonesia's trade and where the colony aids the homelands growth as opposed to it being say a drain for strategic resources. There would be various ways, either stimulate the trader class in the netherlands oon the back of profits they take on the trade of Indonesian goods or find some tariff policy for similar purposes and stimulating resource certain production.

Purely on the matter of iron, taking these considerations in mind, i would argue that the Netherlands might consider using wood construction sectors for longer than a country with its tech normally might as the Netherlands will be able to import huge volumes of wood and cloth at cheap rates early on to feed said constructions sectors. Sure iron construction sectors are all equal just better but then that depends a lot on availability of iron in your nation or how easily you can get it and improve it and in that sense cheap foreign cloth and wood can compete with iron that will at any rate be expensive for the Netherlands to get even if it takes it by conquest. Its not just about the construction sectors though its also about stimulating and guiding activity in Indonesia as in turn Indonesia will start to invest more in wood and cloth and the Netherlands has reason to switch to mass production of things like clothes and furniture with cheap resources attained from abroad early on. Even on the mater of teching preferences, being in autartic on iron push Netherlands to tech towards better mining techs soon but one could argue that isnt nessecarily the optimal techpath when it can choose to prioritise such things like better clothes/furniture production or better ports and ship production so to have a cheaper merchant marine. Rather in terms of constructions ectors i would consider making a switch from wood construction to steel construction at some point, likely 20 years in the game or so, and then under the consideration that by then you could have optimized industrial production of things like steel, tools and glass to make it cheap whereas iron would be more easy to find on the global market in 1855 as opposed to 1835.
 
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As you note, it’s difficult to get iron of the world market. Wood construction sectors are not efficient, and there also really isn’t enough wood on the market either- and you also lack wood in addition to iron. You can attack the Boer republics from day 1. And you should always take them anyways for the 30 gold mines. Why essentially delay all construction until 1855 when you can get that source of iron immediately?
 
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This is kinda a consideration made from a "autartic perspetive", its a perfectly valid strategy to secure your own resources however i have my doubts if thats nesecarily the optimal way to play the Netherlands rather than "leaning more into trade" to secure various needed resources especially since patch 1.9 so the feedback of Bananson is worth exploring too as in he's focussing more on a form of specialty production and trade as opposed to autartic production. Specialty production is just more complex and less explored as it was hard to do pre 1.9 but what ive glimsed of 1.9 it should be possible to focus on certain limited spezializations and possibly thrive on that for which some country's are better possitioned and The Netherlands would be one of the notably most potent candidates. The Netherlands starts out with a large merchant marine and plenty of big markets around it to which it has easy access.

Another thing that is well beyond autartic considerations per sé is how the Netherlands should set its trade policy so as to capitalize on having a big colony. Tariff policy should likely be set in a fashion by which the Netherlands takes a profit on Indonesia's trade and where the colony aids the homelands growth as opposed to it being say a drain for strategic resources. There would be various ways, either stimulate the trader class in the netherlands oon the back of profits they take on the trade of Indonesian goods or find some tariff policy for similar purposes and stimulating resource certain production.

Purely on the matter of iron, taking these considerations in mind, i would argue that the Netherlands might consider using wood construction sectors for longer than a country with its tech normally might as the Netherlands will be able to import huge volumes of wood and cloth at cheap rates early on to feed said constructions sectors. Sure iron construction sectors are all equal just better but then that depends a lot on availability of iron in your nation or how easily you can get it and improve it and in that sense cheap foreign cloth and wood can compete with iron that will at any rate be expensive for the Netherlands to get even if it takes it by conquest. Its not just about the construction sectors though its also about stimulating and guiding activity in Indonesia as in turn Indonesia will start to invest more in wood and cloth and the Netherlands has reason to switch to mass production of things like clothes and furniture with cheap resources attained from abroad early on. Even on the mater of teching preferences, being in autartic on iron push Netherlands to tech towards better mining techs soon but one could argue that isnt nessecarily the optimal techpath when it can choose to prioritise such things like better clothes/furniture production or better ports and ship production so to have a cheaper merchant marine. Rather in terms of constructions ectors i would consider making a switch from wood construction to steel construction at some point, likely 20 years in the game or so, and then under the consideration that by then you could have optimized industrial production of things like steel, tools and glass to make it cheap whereas iron would be more easy to find on the global market in 1855 as opposed to 1835.
I agree, I'm not seeing much of a benefit in taking more lands, or puppets, unless you have a very limited strategy. Like trying to monopolize & tariff the entire supply of oil/rubber in the world.

Currently the system is designed to make your industry more profitable the more you lack, the larger your imports/exports, the higher your trade advantage, the cheaper you can get those goods from other countries, specially if you can secure treaty ports/trade privileges with the largest exporters.

The only reason I'd ever consider actual expansion, other than "painting the map" in vic3 right now would be due to a lack of pops, if I can't attract more migrants (multiculturalism, usually) and I don't have a huge natural population I can't grow naturally as an ethnostate (asian countries, usually) might as well conquer new lands or protectorates and develop them instead.
 
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I agree, I'm not seeing much of a benefit in taking more lands, or puppets, unless you have a very limited strategy. Like trying to monopolize & tariff the entire supply of oil/rubber in the world.

Currently the system is designed to make your industry more profitable the more you lack, the larger your imports/exports, the higher your trade advantage, the cheaper you can get those goods from other countries, specially if you can secure treaty ports/trade privileges with the largest exporters.

The only reason I'd ever consider actual expansion, other than "painting the map" in vic3 right now would be due to a lack of pops, if I can't attract more migrants (multiculturalism, usually) and I don't have a huge natural population I can't grow naturally as an ethnostate (asian countries, usually) might as well conquer new lands or protectorates and develop them instead.
Because at the start of the game there is no wood or iron on the market. As the Netherlands you don't have those resources, either. Just sitting there until iron becomes available 20 or 30 years into the game doesn't seem like a reasonable strategy to me. Especially when there are 2 countries that that have all of the resources you could want and another 30 gold mines just for kicks. They also have dutch culture so it's not like you'd have to really bother yourself too much about some roleplay aspect to go after them.
 
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As you note, it’s difficult to get iron of the world market. Wood construction sectors are not efficient, and there also really isn’t enough wood on the market either.

I disagree. there is plenty of cheap wood available in 1836 on the world market. And while wood construction sectors are less effecient by a certain degree" all else (notably prices) being equal" the degree by which it is less effecient isnt always that big no'r are circumstances of a nature of "all else being equal" when wood is cheap in 1836 and iron and tools are expensive or alternatively hard to get.

The "nominal" material cost for wood construction is 1000£ for 1 construction point, for iron construction sectors this is 720£ per construction point. So it's about 30% cheaper, but not when wood and cloth is -20% below market price and iron is +20% above market price. 20% more expensive tools and iron would push the price of an iron construction sector to 820£ per construction point and -20% input prices would push wood construction to 800£ per construction point.

Labor cost and availabillety has to be taken in mind too, as well as gainfull employment. The Netherlands would logically move away relatively soon from wood construction given it isnt all that manpower rich, (like say 15/20 years into the game) for other country's that have loads of people and even unemployment wood construction actually provides far more jobs per construction point which has its own niche utillity.

Even on a matter of "early prepping of the construction industry", a big consideration should be made where you stand in mining tech too, and afaik the Netherlands start with good tech but not great mining tech so there is a degree to which expansion into iron mining would have diminished returns. This matter of diminished returns could bite extra hard when one has the alternative to produce wood and cloth at high throughput rates very early in the game as the output bonus of throughput can mean a fair bit in how few plantations or forrestries you'd need to feed "a growing construction sector" (one which has to invest construction points to build construction points) with cheap wood and cloth.

In certain countries where high troughput is easily attainable, like Russia for example, you have to contemplate that each forrestry that nominally might only produce 60 wood with sawmills could produce 120 wood per level with 100 throughput which then again wouldnt even be that hard or uninterresting for Russia to achieve given how great her wood resources are at base. In a sense of building up enough supply to a construction sector that your building up, you might be that Russia that with each level of forrestry can provide enough wood for 1.6 construction points for roughly 200 construction points invested , whereas if you were working with iron construction sectors and "picks and shovels" as your mining PM (aka you havnt even got atmospheric engines yet) then you need 2.5 mines to feed 5 construction points (besides the tools and the other materials) which is about 0.8 iron mines for the same 1.6 construction points the forrestry provided in my example for a construction cost of 400 construction points. Which is basically a mathematical argument that says that under circumstances its cheaper to build up the relevant industry and feed the resources for an equivelant amount of construction points trough "outdated wood construction" than it would be with iron, and this logic permutates to following "better construction methods" for the construction industry.

A Russia that would do this would likely mostly do it as a means to fill the gap in between attaining effecient enough tech to make iron construction worth it, which could be relatively soon for Russia but having used wood construction for a decade or so could easily be a perfectly viable choice for it. Picks and shovels arnt effecient as a means to get iron, atmospheric engiens are better but then again condensing engine pump an dynamite isnt that far down the line either and thus "even better, les deminished returns on your inron investment" but it all costs tech investment that could be directed elsewhere. Once it would start to convert to ion construction from wood construction such a nation would be left with an excess of domestic wood and cloth production which however is usefull if you invest relatively soon in clothes and furniture and it wouldnt be a dumb choice as Russia to make something like furniture a specialty. In a way thats a bit of a mater how you stimulate the emergence of an industry at a specific point of time and make best use of it even as circumstances change, the point that is rather relevant int his to the Netherlands is that while Indonesia is neither great really as to produce loads of minerals that it can feed a lot of wood and cloth to the Netherlands at cheap prices in part due to its low labor cost, thus its fairly easy to attain or stimulate the expansion of fairly cheap and productive wood and cloth out of the colony that can serve first these wood construction sectors and then finished good factories in Holland.
 
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But again, why knee cap yourself when I'm going to take the Boer republics day one anyways as the Netherlands for the gold and same culture states?
 
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But again, why knee cap yourself when I'm going to take the Boer republics day one anyways as the Netherlands for the gold and same culture states?

i think ive made a well quantified argument why that wouldnt be "kneecapping oneself" nessecarily besides that you might not take enough consideration yourself as to how much you might be kneecapping yourself when you go to the Boer republics early on for iron. Consideratiosn to make:
1: a rebbelious boer republic, when annexed, would create construction penalty's to iron mines in that region
2: Netherlands at the start of the game, afaik does NOT have atmospheric engines which makes iron mining for the first years very inefficient
3: The region does not have all that much manpower, but it can produce a lot of gold and so you might arguably opt to reserve the manpower there for gold production instead of so much iron and/or coal.

Afaik, you would pretty much have to go atmospheric engines as first tech path as the Netherlands to make iron mining even remotely effecient. Its not a very strong argument to argue that iron construction is more efficient if the iron production that needs to feed it is wildly inefficient and requires far greater investment to set up.
 
i think ive made a well quantified argument why that wouldnt be "kneecapping oneself" nessecarily besides that you might not take enough consideration yourself as to how much you might be kneecapping yourself when you go to the Boer republics early on for iron. Consideratiosn to make:
1: a rebbelious boer republic, when annexed, would create construction penalty's to iron mines in that region
2: Netherlands at the start of the game, afaik does NOT have atmospheric engines which makes iron mining for the first years very inefficient
3: The region does not have all that much manpower, but it can produce a lot of gold and so you might arguably opt to reserve the manpower there for gold production instead of so much iron and/or coal.

Afaik, you would pretty much have to go atmospheric engines as first tech path as the Netherlands to make iron mining even remotely effecient. Its not a very strong argument to argue that iron construction is more efficient if the iron production that needs to feed it is wildly inefficient and requires far greater investment to set up.
None of this makes sense. There's nothing stopping you from doing your wood only strategy by taking the Boer republics. Also, the turmoil from the Boer republics dies down within 5 years and you'll have them stated by that point.

I also don't see the problem with opening with atmospheric engine, given that you don't care about military techs at all- you're going to need France or Prussia against Belgium regardless because their army is 4x your size, so you shouldn't be researching military techs as the Netherlands ever. You don't have any good starting companies, so you're not rushing the company slots- you want to save those company slots for ~1845-1850 when you take Belgium anyways, so there's no rush to get those first. That leaves Quinine or Atmospheric engine as your starting direction. Given your low starting pop, even Quinine isn't going to be much help in colonizing right off the bat. Again, you need Belgium for colonies to really get going. Atmospheric Engine seems like the natural opener.
 
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None of this makes sense. There's nothing stopping you from doing your wood only strategy by taking the Boer republics.

I'm not saying that taking the boer republics is a bad choice as a move, but you took it as a argument to counter and invalidate mine so if you ever wanted to argue that this was the more efficient thing to do as to set up your early construction and growth i would rather continue to argue that this is imho a rather inefficient approach.

I also don't see the problem with opening with atmospheric engine

its an issue if your opening moves require the nation to reseach into a specific tech for 3 years to even start to be effecient, especially if the matter at hand is setting up an effecient construction sector which is optimally done in the first few years. Atmospheric engines afcourse is a pretty important tech that many nations will start with but there are arguments to make that this wouldnt be the optimal choice for the Netherlands and that thus being forced to it takes away the opportunity to research potentially more interesting tech. You might think that many other techs would be less worth it but i'm sure that could spawn a rather hefty debate as there are various other key early techs for which arguments could be made. i'm not sure if Netherlands start with Dialectics for example but its one of those techs that often puts people in dilema on priority's, same goes for tech that give more infrastructure in the culture tech tree, techs that might aid colonialism or healthcare, country's that would have a lot of tax waste would often also want to beeline to better administration tech though thats not so relevant for Netherlands. But anyway i think you have to just recognise that the usage of iron construction sector "as a more effecient construction sector method" is arguably not all that effecient if you dont have the best starting tech for mining and Netherlands has that issue and thats already a very fair criticism to your points that started this discussion much as you want to ignore it or not. Besides this starting netherlands does not have a lot of mineral wealth to really justify investing so early in mining tech lest it aquires a lot of mineral resources. Sure taking the boer republics isnt a bad idea but there are so many places you can conquer early on that would be worth it but that by itself is not all that relevant to the discussion were having either if it doesnt help you to set up your construction sector more effeciently as you seemed to first argue.
 
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I'm not saying that taking the boer republics is a bad choice as a move, but you took it as a argument to counter and invalidate mine so if you ever wanted to argue that this was the more efficient thing to do as to set up your early construction and growth i would rather continue to argue that this is imho a rather inefficient approach.
Except, by your own math, it's 30% more efficient than the wood opening. The turmoil will die down quickly, and for the first 5 years you can just use wood until it does and you've got atmospheric engine done. You should go for the Boer republics anyways, because they are same culture states. They have tons of gold, tons of iron, and tons of coal. All resources you lack at the start and it immediatly fixes that problem. They also address one of the other long term problems the Netherlands faces: you'll run out of states to build construction sites in pretty quickly. Since 1.9 introduced a huge construction malus for anything that's not stated, you kind of want to build in only areas that are states.
its an issue if your opening moves require the nation to reseach into a specific tech for 3 years to even start to be effecient, especially if the matter at hand is setting up an effecient construction sector which is optimally done in the first few years. Atmospheric engines afcourse is a pretty important tech that many nations will start with but there are arguments to make that this wouldnt be the optimal choice for the Netherlands and that thus being forced to it takes away the opportunity to research potentially more interesting tech. You might think that many other techs would be less worth it but i'm sure that could spawn a rather hefty debate as there are various other key early techs for which arguments could be made. i'm not sure if Netherlands start with Dialectics for example but its one of those techs that often puts people in dilema on priority's, same goes for tech that give more infrastructure in the culture tech tree, techs that might aid colonialism or healthcare, country's that would have a lot of tax waste would often also want to beeline to better administration tech though thats not so relevant for Netherlands. But anyway i think you have to just recognise that the usage of iron construction sector "as a more effecient construction sector method" is arguably not all that effecient if you dont have the best starting tech for mining and Netherlands has that issue and thats already a very fair criticism to your points that started this discussion much as you want to ignore it or not. Besides this starting netherlands does not have a lot of mineral wealth to really justify investing so early in mining tech lest it aquires a lot of mineral resources. Sure taking the boer republics isnt a bad idea but there are so many places you can conquer early on that would be worth it but that by itself is not all that relevant to the discussion were having either if it doesnt help you to set up your construction sector more effeciently as you seemed to first argue.
I outlined why atmo is a perfectly reasonable choice and there really isnt much debate to be had: you cant colonize effciently because of your population, so Quinine isn't useful. You don't have good starting companies AND you want the company slots vacant for the Belgian companies when you conquer them. The default mineral guild would be the company you want to slot in, but that's also only useful if you go with a strategy where you control mines and open with atmo. You don't have the arable land or the RGO types for the fabric or textile company to be useful. You're not getting the default wood company because you as the Netherlands are going to rush the congo one, but you can't get it right at the start. So you're not rushing the company techs either. You don't have the pops to go after taxation or bureacracy efficiency. You're never going to touch the military side of the tree, with maybe the exception of rushing to floating harbor once you reach tier 3 techs through nat spread (so, not at the start of the game). Your literacy is already very high and you dont have the construction to build unis, so something like Dialectics isn't useful as an opener.

Basically, I'm going to grab the Boer republics immediatly as it is. I'm also probably going atmospheric engine first because I don't have anything better to research right off. There's very little argument to be made that any tech is actually useful for the Netherlands at the start other than atmo. Given that I control them already, it would make sense to build iron mines in the Boer republics once turmoil has died down a bit, which happens very quickly.
 
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Except, by your own math, it's 30% more efficient than the wood opening.

Thats not the absolute conclusion that my math gave as i distincly pointed out that other mathematical factors affect that number to a lopsided degree, please dont rephrease my words for the purpose of making an argument.

.The turmoil will die down quickly,

You cant even say how fast, but the notable and very importnat matter to poitn out to is that any iron mines you would build at this time of turmoil might receive a significant cost increase ad thats not something to so easily ignore.


and for the first 5 years you can just use wood until it

Well if your already starting to compromise on your former absolutist argument, why just 5 years? Why not more? And why then would it have been so much an issue that i advised wood construction at start due to lack of easily obtainable iron at an effecient rate in the early years?

until it does and you've got atmospheric engine done.

providing you force yourself into needing to research it rather than other options, you havnt even made the argument nessecarily succesfully that atmospheric engiens would be the best tech to start with.

They also address one of the other long term problems the Netherlands faces: you'll run out of states to build construction sites in pretty quickly.

The way i adressed this is by arguing that one should rather beeline for steel construction in tech and rather thereby even avoid having to use iron necessarily, possibly going from wood construction to steel construction directly. It's true that you will run out of manpower soon to really staff so much construction sectors easily but then the argument for steel construction is even stronger than that of iron and the same would apply to even your original main quantification of efficiency. But then it has to be noted, if steel construction is to be beelined for then that does not take the path necessarily of iron production, your fine with cultural techs and steel production techs. By 1950 there will be more iron on the market but then steel production doesnt not need so much iron per construction point generated as iron construction sectors as steel is a product of coal and iron, which reduced the relative need of iron. So you could argue that its potentially valid to "bridge over" the need of ever having to use iron construction, by using wood construction a bit longer and then going steel right away which is even better.

I outlined why atmo is a perfectly reasonable choice and there really isnt much debate to be had

So you declare but i think its a perfectly valid argument in this context to put steel construction as a reasonable target to rush for and that tech path will not prioritize mining.

Your literacy is already very high and you dont have the construction to build unis, so something like Dialectics isn't useful as an opener.

Hmm as a very first tech it would be debatable, with wood construction sectors you can likely set up in the first years, going unis right away instead of building some more industry is expensive but efficient once dialectics is also unlocked, its not like you need 30 universities by then but having 5 to 10 universities by 1940 is perhaps achievable and of arguable good value with dialectics unlocked. Achieving a faster techrate early has a great return on investment typically to the point that improving tech is a very early goal for many.
 
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You cant even say how fast, but the notable and very importnat matter to poitn out to is that any iron mines you would build at this time of turmoil might receive a significant cost increase ad thats not something to so easily ignore.
Well, I can because I literally just did a game as the Netherlands and was building mines in Transvaal with no construction malus about 5 years in.
Well if your already starting to compromise on your former absolutist argument, why just 5 years? Why not more? And why then would it have been so much an issue that i advised wood construction at start due to lack of easily obtainable iron at an effecient rate in the early years?
Because you already have the iron mines kicking off in 5 years.
providing you force yourself into needing to research it rather than other options, you havnt even made the argument nessecarily succesfully that atmospheric engiens would be the best tech to start with.
Except I did. That you ignored it/did not read it/refuse to respond to it does not make it invalid. Pretty much no other tech on the board is useful for you as the Netherlands and I clearly outlined why. The only one that is even borderline is going for Quinine, but again it's not useful until you take Belgium.

Basically the opener is always atmo UNLESS atmo nat spread to you for the reasons I have outlined clearly twice now. If you get atmo as your nat spread, you swap to pharm and go for Quinine.
The way i adressed this is by arguing that one should rather beeline for steel construction in tech and rather thereby even avoid having to use iron necessarily, possibly going from wood construction to steel construction directly. It's true that you will run out of manpower soon to really staff so much construction sectors easily but then the argument for steel construction is even stronger than that of iron and the same would apply to even your original main quantification of efficiency. But then it has to be noted, if steel construction is to be beelined for then that does not take the path necessarily of iron production, your fine with cultural techs and steel production techs. By 1950 there will be more iron on the market but then steel production doesnt not need so much iron per construction point generated as iron construction sectors as steel is a product of coal and iron, which reduced the relative need of iron. So you could argue that its potentially valid to "bridge over" the need of ever having to use iron construction, by using wood construction a bit longer and then going steel right away which is even better.



So you declare but i think its a perfectly valid argument in this context to put steel construction as a reasonable target to rush for and that tech path will not prioritize mining.
It's one tech. Two if you go watertube right after. You'll get steel construction a grand total of.... 1 year later if you researched literally nothing but society techs from the start. In the mean time, you'll have a lot more construction going, and already have the iron/coal/tool base developed to swap to steel without having to import tons of stuff from the market at a loss.

I mean, what you've outlined seems like a reasonable strategy if your plan is to never conquer another single piece of land. But if you are going to take a few places, the first stop as the Netherlands is always going to be South Africa. What's left in Indonesia to take isn't worth it at the start comapred to South Africa as it's only late game resources, has no pop, and you can't state it effectively; presumably you just give this to DEI but it still wont do anything for your bloc until about 1870. South Africa is the obvious target. And since you're already there, you might as well use the resources available to you.
 
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Except I did. That you did not read it does not make it invalid.

Can you please stop making self rightious declarations that add nothing to the argument? This is just an argument of the nature "i'm right because i'm say i'm right" and "i invalidate your objections because you didnt seem to understand how right i am even if i just self declare that".
 
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