New Air Tech doesn't work right?

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There new Tech method seems to be to add bonuses to create new/upgraded unit types, instead of using increased values within the unit type?

Example:

effects = {
command = { type = new_model which = dive_bomber value = 1 }
command = { type = build_cost which = dive_bomber value = 1 }
command = { type = air_detection which = dive_bomber value = 1 }
command = { type = surface_detection which = dive_bomber value = 1 }
command = { type = air_attack which = dive_bomber value = 1 }
command = { type = air_defense which = dive_bomber value = 1 }
command = { type = tactical_attack which = dive_bomber value = 1 }
command = { type = speed which = dive_bomber value = 10 }
command = { type = range which = dive_bomber value = 100 }

But this doesn't seem to work. After researching Basic Dive Bombers, the values for Stukas and Pre-war are the same.

 

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Well, I did a little more experimenting and decoding of the techs, etc. The new airplane techs do work, but I don't think the effect is what the designers intended?

Basically, all the different models of airplanes are identical. When you research a new tech (e.g. Dive Bombers) ALL the different models gain the bonuses for the new tech. Pre-War Dive Bombers and Basic Dive Bomber are identical; and each gain the bonuses from the newly researched tech.

This means there is NO reason to upgrade an air unit to a newer model. In some cases, e.g. Naval Bomber, the newer versions are WORSE (lower ground defense)!

Fighters and Transports seem to be implemented the old way? Note: Transports are back to having gigantic ranges.

There is a reason to upgrade units to gain other techs (such as 12.7mm MG, 20mm Cannon, etc); but not to change them to a newer model.

 

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This has already had discussion in the Forums over there:

http://stonyroad.dyndns.org/phpbb2/index.php

 

[Aregorn]

Originally posted by StevenGoodman
Well, I did a little more experimenting and decoding of the techs, etc. The new airplane techs do work, but I don't think the effect is what the designers intended?
Basically, all the different models of airplanes are identical. When you research a new tech (e.g. Dive Bombers) ALL the different models gain the bonuses for the new tech. Pre-War Dive Bombers and Basic Dive Bomber are identical; and each gain the bonuses from the newly researched tech.
This means there is NO reason to upgrade an air unit to a newer model. In some cases, e.g. Naval Bomber, the newer versions are WORSE (lower ground defense)!
Fighters and Transports seem to be implemented the old way? Note: Transports are back to having gigantic ranges.
There is a reason to upgrade units to gain other techs (such as 12.7mm MG, 20mm Cannon, etc); but not to change them to a newer model.

The effects even though remains to be seen if they are exactly what we want, they for sure are what we intended. I think it will be good and helpful for everyone that for Stony developement related critics ideas and proposed changes you also read and add your comments in the Stony forum in the Stony Road Development threads. I know it might be difficult to assimilate the changes given by the air warfare mod but it was done for specific reasons already discussed in the stony forum.
Copy paste from there some of the reasons for the air warfare mod answering why bombers are now automatically upgraded:

Why? it was initially a practical solution which came out to be also useful to help the AI. The thing is that aircraft warfare had to be totally redesigned. Planes are too deathly and seemed to be available in unlimited amounts. This induce the player to follow the logical strategy of mainly building bombers with some few land divisions for occupation, which is totally wrong as air units although crucial for blitzkrieg were always a support weapon and were never that deathly in reality. For that what we did is to simulate, when constructing an air division, the pilots training and not the actual plane manufacturing. Then the building time process was significantly increased (you need to train the pilots and not every person has the skills to be trained as such). This strategy has a problem. When a new model is discovered to upgrade the unit you will need a real long time for the old air unit to be upgraded. If pilots had been already trained the time of supplying the air divisions with the new planes should not be as long as it becomes in the mod by increasing the air building time. The reason is because the main time limitation for the upgrade would be the construction of the new planes. Then what we did is increase the time required to research the applied tech (resembling the plane building process) giving the new plane improvements automatically. This way we solve the time problem of the upgrade and at the same time we help the AI in the air model update. As a side note the ai never receives the time building penalty.

 

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However, upgrading is still required for some techs, but not all. Specifically, the Artillery Techs (12.7MG, 20Cannon) still require upgrading. (There might be more, I haven't looked through every tech.)

The concept, of "training the pilots" (i.e. building the units ahead of time) is reasonable. But it needs to be integrated throughout.

 

[Aregorn]

Originally posted by StevenGoodman
However, upgrading is still required for some techs, but not all. Specifically, the Artillery Techs (12.7MG, 20Cannon) still require upgrading. (There might be more, I haven't looked through every tech.)

The concept, of "training the pilots" (i.e. building the units ahead of time) is reasonable. But it needs to be integrated throughout.

This has also been discussed some days ago in the stony page. Check there the issue.

 

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I'd like to, but don't see a thread for it at StonyRoad. How about a link or the thread title? Because while I kind of understand what you are getting at, it's still MIGHTY confusing just by reading here.

Thanks.

 

[Aregorn]

Originally posted by Phil K
I'd like to, but don't see a thread for it at StonyRoad. How about a link or the thread title? Because while I kind of understand what you are getting at, it's still MIGHTY confusing just by reading here.
Thanks.

Sorry Phil I juat read your post. You could search in the stony forum with air warfare as key words I guess. In any case I think it was clear enough what it is said here. What is it exactly that you do not understand?