New Burgundian Events

[MattyG]

Spilling over from another thread ...

The Burgundian event file is fairly sparse, strange for a country which is in the centre of all the action in the rich and powerful Western Europe. I'm mostly working on my New World extension, but I'd like to see whose interested in generting some additional ideas for Burgundy.

I'm going to get the ball rolling with a concept of Burgundy for Aberrated, then suggest some key events to express the theme.

Being located in the centre of Europe and straddling divergeant cultural groups (Alsacians, French, Flems, Germans and others) has always placed Burgundy in a challenging position. Being surrounded is rarely a good strategic position. To ensure stability, it has demanded of Burgundy to respond in one of two ways. The first is expand and to try to dominate the polical scene to force stability on the landscape. The second has been to deftly ensure a balance of power through diplomacy and war only when necessary. Burgundy has used both approaches over the years to survive, sometime being the warmonger, sometimes the peace maker.

As 1419 opens the scene in Europe is anything but stable. Recent expansionist ideas have gained territory for Burgundy, but at the expense of regional stability. The new king, Phillipe (eventually to be known as "The Good") has determined that his father's approach will not serve him well and moves Burgundy once again into the role of powerbroker and peace maker. It is a role he will be ultimately successful in, and at his death in 1467, he is mounred throughout Europe. Even his adversaries miss him.

How do we represent this with the tools EU2 provides? For an ai Burgundy, this will reuire a peaceful ai and many carefully scripted ai events in which it uses war to repond to aggression by its neighbours. For players, I suggest that many of the events are reactive ones, that permit the player to more easy maintain a balance and which reward her or him for ensuring that neither Brittany, Savoy, Hansa or Bavaria grow too large.

event = {
id = 111111
trigger = {
owned = { province = Guyenne data = Brittany}
}
random = no
country = BUR
name = "Brittany annexes Guyenne"
desc = "Blah blah nice piece of text"
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 15 month = june year = 1467 }

action_a = {
name = "Express outrage and demand release of Guyenne"
command = { type = casusbelli which = Brittany for 60 months }
command = { type = cash value -25 }
command = { type = BB value = -1 }
command = { type = relation with Brittany - 100 }
command = { type = relation with Savoy = +25 }
command = { type = relations with minor X = +50 }
(repeat that command for all minors close to Guyenne)
command = { type = diplomats which = 2 }
}
action_b = {
name = " Allow this to happen in silence"
command = { type = BB value 1 }
command = { type = vp = -20 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 222222 }
}
}

event = {
id = 222222
trigger = { event = 1111111 }
random = no
country = Brittany
name = "Demands for the Restoration of Princes of Guyenne"
desc = "Nice text"

action_a = {
name = "It was all a big misunderstanding ...."
command = { type = create as vassal Guyenne }
command = { type = cash value = +50 } # but plunder first ....
command = { sleepevent which = 333333 }
}
action_b = {
name = "We recognize only our historical right to Guyenne"
command = { type = BB value = +1 }
command = { type = relations with various minors = -20 }
}
}

event = {
id = 333333
random = no
country = Burgundy
name = "Brittany Refuses to Acknowledge Guyenne"
desc = "Gosh, more well-written text"

action_a = {
name = "Back down, but continue to speak again Brittany"
command = { type = DIP which = -1 for 24 months }
command = { type = relations with various minor = -10 }
command = { type = vp = -20 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Then we shall have to force them"
command = { type = war betweeb Burdundy and Brittany }
command = { type = cash value = 100 } #contributions from others
command = { type = inf vale = 10000 in Burgogne } #troops from others
command = { type = BB value = -1 }
}
}

In addition, whenever Burgundy has the opportunity to release vassals, there will be ai events which automatically do this.

event = {
id = 444444
trigger = {
ai = yes
owned = { province = Wurtemburg data = Burgundy}
}
random = no
country = BUR
name = "Restore the Prince of Burgundy"
desc = "Blah blah nice piece of text"
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 15 month = june year = 1467 }

action_a = {
name = "Return this great family to its proper station"
command = { type = create Wurtemburg as a vassal }
command = { type = cash value = 50 }
command = { type = BB value = -3 }
command = { type = relations with various minors= +50 }
command = { type = diplomats which = 1 }
}
action_b = {
name = "We must maintain control only for the good of all"
command = { type = BB value = +2 }
command = { type = relations with various minors= -50 }
}
}

Essentially, Burgundy gets the opportunity to get involved everywhere in Western Europe and has a exaggerated version of BadBoy.

Like father, like son, and another generation rejects the apporach of is predecessors. Charles (one day to be called "The Bold") sees the advantageous position his father has secured and the weakening of theold order of minor princes as a time to strengthen Burgundy's place alongside the growing powers of Brittany, Savoy and Bavaria.

The events his fathers gets continue, but instead of "Backing down" being the Action A in response to other contries tansgressions, Charles has "War" as his option A and spends 20 years attacking anybody who controls select stretegic provinces. In addition, he will have vassal ceation as his Action B, being more of an empire builder.

This represents a lot of scripting, but it will make for great roleplaying and a much more intriguing Burgundian ai.

Following the death of Charles le Temeraire, the Burgundian kings became less active in the politics of Europe and focused on explorations of the new world and in creating successful trade routes from their ports in the low countries. The religious fervour and revolts that erupt across much of Europe are avoided by the Burgundian kings, intent as ever on stability.


This period takes us through to Jean II Roi de Lune. The reformation is greated by the Burgundians less as a threat to religion as a threat to state stability. Their response is to risk war but permit limited religious freedom. The event cycle takes provides options for suppression, but the ai will take the moderate path, which lowers their standing with the other Catholic states and raises RR across the country, but which with the ascencion of Jean II bears fruit in the calming of religious tension, while battles still rage around it. However, if the ai is playing Bavaria, Brittany, Savoy or others, there will no doubt be wars.

A few years in Jean II and theplayer and ai will get to make the big decision for Burgundy. Whether to continue to be a power broker or to move Burgundy into and new mode and simply expand and conquer in Europe and abroad. Either way, Jean II proves successful at his endeavours.

This event cycle also presumes that we create a 'Burgundian' culture which represents the provinces of very mixed cultural background which are largely accepting of one another. Burgundy will not get shields throughout France and will never get German or French culture.

OK, so thats the start of the concept. What do people think?

 

[Incompetent]

This event cycle also presumes that we create a 'Burgundian' culture which represents the provinces of very mixed cultural background which are largely accepting of one another. Burgundy will not get shields throughout France and will never get German or French culture.

OK, so thats the start of the concept. What do people think?

Burgundian culture is a possibility, but it would take a long time before people outside of Burgundy proper (Bourgogne and Franche-Comte provinces) think of themselves as Burgundians first and foremost. Also, I don't think it's fair to deprive Burgundy of French culture, at least early on. I was thinking Burgundy should start with a culture list of burgundian, french (burgundian would only cover two provinces at first, but it makes things simpler later on with colonies etc) and then after 150 or so years we give them the option of shifting east, losing french but seeing the expansion of burgundian culture. With the new, reduced french culture, this can be made a balanced choice.

As for the events, they look interesting, but I suspect the 'protection of minors' events will backfire somewhat, as minors are inherently unstable. Either they get on with their neighbours and are diploannexed, or they don't and get force-annexed. Even the players will conspire in their downfall, as they can have disruptive effects on trade, diplomacy and warfare (thanks to their excessively large armies). Minors like Wurttemburg just aren't going to survive in the big bad world, and force-releasing them will only prolong the turmoil of the early years. Perhaps having Burgundy 'acknowledge Swabia's rightful claims' or something might go better.

More generally though, Burgundy as a peacemaker - it could work, but it'll be very difficult to pull off in SP, except for the narrow goal of Burgundy securing peace and stability for itself. (That's essentially what's happening in my 'Christian the Wise' events - their primary goal is to pacify the angry hordes massing on the TO's borders.)

 

[MattyG]

Burgundian culture is a possibility, but it would take a long time before people outside of Burgundy proper (Bourgogne and Franche-Comte provinces) think of themselves as Burgundians first and foremost. Also, I don't think it's fair to deprive Burgundy of French culture, at least early on. I was thinking Burgundy should start with a culture list of burgundian, french (burgundian would only cover two provinces at first, but it makes things simpler later on with colonies etc) and then after 150 or so years we give them the option of shifting east, losing french but seeing the expansion of burgundian culture. With the new, reduced french culture, this can be made a balanced choice.

As for the events, they look interesting, but I suspect the 'protection of minors' events will backfire somewhat, as minors are inherently unstable. Either they get on with their neighbours and are diploannexed, or they don't and get force-annexed. Even the players will conspire in their downfall, as they can have disruptive effects on trade, diplomacy and warfare (thanks to their excessively large armies). Minors like Wurttemburg just aren't going to survive in the big bad world, and force-releasing them will only prolong the turmoil of the early years. Perhaps having Burgundy 'acknowledge Swabia's rightful claims' or something might go better.

More generally though, Burgundy as a peacemaker - it could work, but it'll be very difficult to pull off in SP, except for the narrow goal of Burgundy securing peace and stability for itself. (That's essentially what's happening in my 'Christian the Wise' events - their primary goal is to pacify the angry hordes massing on the TO's borders.)

Because this is Aberrated, we can go back a hundred, two hundred, three hundred years and write the alternate roots of the game. The emergeance of Burgundian culture would begin there, something different from the French culture developing in the north of modern real-world France.

In this way, although Burgundy would not have French culture, we could postulate that the cultural change occuring in Burgundian-owned French provinces is now only decades away. By 1470 (?) if Burgundy still owns Nivernais and Champagne then these provinces become 'Burgundian' in culture. Not only would this strengthen the Burgundian state, but it would help to create an interesting dynamic in Europe in MP, with Brittany having to decide whether it is worth assaulting Burgundy to capture those provinces before they lose their French identity forever.

The southern provinces, of course, would not matter in this as they would be Occitan, not French.

A similar cultural conversion could occur much later (1680s ?) for provinces like Orleanais, Lorraine and even Il de France (sacre bleu!) is they remain Burgundian.

I acknowledge readily that the game structure and the way the ai minors are handled means that they are disruptive. Too many DoWs, too many troops and not enough built-in incentive for them to remain independent as they did. (I'm a strong believe in doubling BB costs.) However, maybe this peacemaker role could be acheived through mechanisms other than support-for and re-vassalage of minors.

You didn't comment on the BB part of it. For players this will be an incentive to be peaceful and to follow up on events because it will either earn them BB reductions or by failing to respond appropriately will gain them BB.

The religious turmoil of Europe can effect Burgundy much less as long as Burgundy has followed this course as a balance-of-power peacemaker. Not having to confront wars of religion at home in the 1500s will be a real drawcard, especially in MP, I think. It will be the prize earned for not being expansionist. Essentially, the trigger would be that Burgundy does NOT own certain provinces. Smaller is more manageable, and these recently-assimilated provinces do not share (the revised) Burgundy's national passion for reasonableness. Reasonableness for the period, of course.

All history aside for the moment, in gaming terms being a peacemaker in the first 100 years of EU2 is normally a great way to lose. Which it shouldn't be. Focusing on economic development and having peaceful relations with the rest of Europe should permit a country to develop more economically. And the remainder of the EU2 period (1550s onward) does recognize that the strongest economy ultimately wins. Accordingly, to reward Burdundy for having successfully acheived its goal of a more stable region, there would be events in 1460 (near the end of Phillipe le Bon's time) and 1490 (Charle's period) that would reward Burgundy with healthy bonuses to trade and infra if it has not expanded (and not shrunk) and if certain medium minors are still around.

Matty

 

[Incompetent]

Because this is Aberrated, we can go back a hundred, two hundred, three hundred years and write the alternate roots of the game. The emergeance of Burgundian culture would begin there, something different from the French culture developing in the north of modern real-world France.

We could indeed. But I still think the player should have a choice, though as you say the crossroads might come pretty early. The way I see it, Burgunidian in 1419 has a few distinguishing features, but is to a large extent an offshoot of French culture, so the kindgom has no trouble ruling French areas. However, for the culture to blossom in its own right, the Kings of Burgundy will have to abandon many of the old French customs and traditions and be more open to influences east of the Rhine, something they still haven't done. The question of where to spread Burgundian culture is a difficult one, and in some provinces we could leave it to player choice (with negativ consequences for expanding too far), or require low BB, but for aesthetic reasons I'd like to see the possibility of a Rhineland power rather than an Eastern French one - that way it's clear that Burgundian is something new rather than just a fragmentation in French culture.

You didn't comment on the BB part of it. For players this will be an incentive to be peaceful and to follow up on events because it will either earn them BB reductions or by failing to respond appropriately will gain them BB.

The religious turmoil of Europe can effect Burgundy much less as long as Burgundy has followed this course as a balance-of-power peacemaker. Not having to confront wars of religion at home in the 1500s will be a real drawcard, especially in MP, I think. It will be the prize earned for not being expansionist. Essentially, the trigger would be that Burgundy does NOT own certain provinces. Smaller is more manageable, and these recently-assimilated provinces do not share (the revised) Burgundy's national passion for reasonableness. Reasonableness for the period, of course.

The BB by event is interesting, but I'd be careful not to overdo it, especially for non-AI events. 3BB might not sound a lot, but to a player it's 3 DOWs, one and a half COTs in offensive wars or (on average on VH) 24 years' worth of natural decrease in BB. I would only grant -BB if the player shows real courage/self-sacrifice in their pursuit of peace.

Burgundy is pretty lucky in that the provinces it is likely to get are almost all Catholic. As such, its religious troubles are likely to be fairly mild anyway. But we can certainly punish an over-aggressive Burgundy with religious problems - for one thing, most of their neighbours will not be Catholic, and the further they expand the more heretics they'll run into.

All history aside for the moment, in gaming terms being a peacemaker in the first 100 years of EU2 is normally a great way to lose. Which it shouldn't be. Focusing on economic development and having peaceful relations with the rest of Europe should permit a country to develop more economically. And the remainder of the EU2 period (1550s onward) does recognize that the strongest economy ultimately wins. Accordingly, to reward Burdundy for having successfully acheived its goal of a more stable region, there would be events in 1460 (near the end of Phillipe le Bon's time) and 1490 (Charle's period) that would reward Burgundy with healthy bonuses to trade and infra if it has not expanded (and not shrunk) and if certain medium minors are still around.

Matty

Indeed it should. But remember that Burgundy has Latin tech, extremely rich provinces (whether in France, Belgium or the Rhineland) and fairly early access to the colonial game - it's always going to be an economic powerhouse. We could help them out a bit if they are peaceful, but we have to keep things in balance.