New Formables Nations (kind of) approved by Wiz!

[MiniaAr]

To prove that I'm not throwing out big names without proof (a bit old but still):

From this topic:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/more-formable-countries.880917/page-8

Golden Horde as a formable: Ehh, I'd prefer something like 'Tatarstan' or 'Tataria' even if it's not historical, I don't like tags that have the government form in the name and would change the name of GH if there was anything reasonable to replace it with.
Yuan: I could see this being added.
Two Sicilies: Not significant enough. Sardinia-Piedmont at least has a use in upgrading Savoy from Duchy to Kingdom, but both Naples and Sicily are Kingdoms already.
Lotharingia: Very anachronistic. Probably not.
Latin Empire: Would be a cool alternative to Jerusalem, only thing I don't like is 'Empire' in the name.
Rajputjana: Sure, why not?
Turkey: Ehh, I think some sort of non-dynastic naming for dynastic countries that turn republics would be better.

I'd like to propose a new list of potential new formables countries:

• Yuan: I know that technically the Yuan are represented by Mongolia (as the Northern Yuan), but a new tag would serve a gameplay purpose of representing a new conquest of China by Mongolian people, instead of the Manchu conquest. Conditions should be relatively similar in that one would need to unify most of Mongolia, and then get a big share of Northern China, including Beijing. I would limit the formation to countries with Mongolian, Oirat, Khalkha or Chahar cultures. The formation would give Empire rank as the Qing formation does. And it would also give access to the "unify China" CB.
  
  
• Rajputjana/Rajahstan: This would represent a successful unifications of the various Rajput pincely states (thus reserved for Rajput culture). The tag formation would give kingdom rank as many smaller states start as duchy (Dhundar, Hadoti, Jaisalmer,...). The formation would also give claims on all Rajput areas not already owned and part of the requirement.
  
  
• Rum: as in "The Sultanate of Rum". Now that the Ottomans get a specific government form, this tag formation would represent a re-unification of the major part of Anatolia by the various Turkish beyliks. The Ottomans were a special case of those beyliks, as very early they destined themselves to be a link between West and East, whereas the Turkish beyliks would probably have been content with ruling all the others.
  
  
• Rhomania/Romaniæ/Rhomaniæ (pick your prefered version): This is a tag to represent a resurgent Latin Empire (Wiz didn't like tags with ranks in their names). There are still crusader states in the Agean, namely Athens and Naxos, and Achea can be released. I would argue that catholic states that took Constantinople would try and re-form the Latin Empire over converting to orthodoxy and adopting Greek culture. Therefore, the decision could also apply to even Venice or Genoa (or all Italian culture countries?). Regarding the name, and the potential argument about confusion with Romania formed by Wallachia or Moldavia, I think this is a non-argument. Indeed, we've had in the game Munster (Irish) and Münster (German) for years, and it's more a source of fun and entertainment than confusion.
  
  
• Hansa: This one is probably a dream, but I'd like very much to see the somewhat frustrating trade league mechanics allow a successful trade league leader (more than 10 members, great trade revenues,etc...) to be able to integrate some or all of it's member states and form a more centralised country. This would likely requires events and/or difficult conditions to pull out, but a compentent played would have a nice goal to reach as a merchant republic in northern Germany (the formation should be available to a merchant republic of Westphalian culture).
  
  
• Arelate: The last HRE emperor beig crowned King of Arles was Charles IV in Luxembourg in 1365, thus really not too long before the game. It could be formed by countries either:
  With Occitan primary culture: It's fine for Provence, Avignon and Dauphiné. But a bit less troublesome for Auvergne, Berry, Toulouse (and the Knights).
  With country tag Savoy, Provence, Avignon, Dauphiné. Those were the major counties constituant of the Kingdom. One of them might take the mantle and recreate the Kingdom for itself.
  As formation requirements, the provinces of Provence, Savoy, Lyon and Dauphiné were the major one (I think). Holding 3 of those 4 should allow to recreate the kingdom. Then, it will give claims on those 3 areas: Provence, Savoy and Romandie, as well as the single province of Franche-Comté. Also, it elevates the forming country to kingdom rank.
  

What do you think?

 

[AirikrStrife]

Perhaps one formable nation for fun an profit would be Kushite Empire. it could be named in similar manner to how Mamluks are named on the map as Kushites for example.
My reasoning for this is as even as unhistorical and unplausible it is, it is to differentiate beetween Christian and Islamic Egyptian state, and I've always been bothered by the fact that if I play as say Alodia and conquer Mamluks and that way form Egypt that instead of more christian flag I get the Sunni flag of Kingdom of Egypt.

To form it it could simply be to own certain Key provinces in de jure kingdom of Egypt as well as play as a Nubian culture Christian/Coptic nation and NOT be Ethiopia.

Ofcourse I fully know that this is most likely never going to happen, but I did want to say and suggest it as a somewhat cool easter egg for a way to form a Christian Kingdom of Egypt.

I suggested a formable tag for a state with egyptian culture and coptic religion: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...site-and-coptic-flavor.1023858/#post-22854724

Could perhaps be extended for Nubian states aswell.

 

[AndrejK]

Perhaps one formable nation for fun an profit would be Kushite Empire. it could be named in similar manner to how Mamluks are named on the map as Kushites for example.
My reasoning for this is as even as unhistorical and unplausible it is, it is to differentiate beetween Christian and Islamic Egyptian state, and I've always been bothered by the fact that if I play as say Alodia and conquer Mamluks and that way form Egypt that instead of more christian flag I get the Sunni flag of Kingdom of Egypt.

To form it it could simply be to own certain Key provinces in de jure kingdom of Egypt as well as play as a Nubian culture Christian/Coptic nation and NOT be Ethiopia.

Ofcourse I fully know that this is most likely never going to happen, but I did want to say and suggest it as a somewhat cool easter egg for a way to form a Christian Kingdom of Egypt.

Kemet tag, with Coptic flag. Have Minya and Asyut Coptic religion at start, and Kemet cores as well

 

[Kaizer Prussian]

What about Belarus? i know we can form Ruthenia , but Ruthenia (belarusians,ukrainians) it is like a "Heir of Kievan Rus". And also Ruthenia more ukrainian Direction than belarusian (ukr provinces need, ruthenian culture and etc)
So i want
1. New belarusian principality except Polotsk
a)Vitebsk principality (anexed by Lithuania in 1230)
3 provinces - Vitebsk (Capital) Mstislav Mogilev ( all state White Ruthenia) Polotsk dont lose core on this province beacuse Vitebsk was vassal of Polotsk
b) Turov principaity - ( last prince die in XIII century)
4 provinces - Turov (Capital) Pinsk Brest ( all Pripyat) + Mozyr (from 1161) and all principaity was a core of Galician-Vohlynian Kingdom (fall in 1349, and i write a post about this Kingdom and problem this country in game)
c) Polotsk gain new core - Ula in Minsk state
d) Minsk pricipality (last prince die in 1326) 1 core province and capital Minsk

and i want move Polotsk province to Minsk state but it is another***

And if we have belarusian principalitys now we can talk about decision "Form Belarus"
Requirements:
1) Owns core Minsk Polotsk Vitebsk Turov Brest and Smolensk or Grodno
2) 10 administrative technology
3) independent state
4) primary culture - belarusian
Effects:
1) becomes Belarus
2) ganes permanent claim on : Pripyat Minsk White Ruthenia and Smolensk areas
3) is a duchy :
then it becomes a kingdom.
4) gets the modifier “Increased Centralization” for 20 years with the following effects:

• −0.05 monthly autonomy change,
• +1 national unrest.

5) changes its capital to: Minsk 276
6)gains 25 prestige.
7)is a member of the Holy Roman Empire and not an elector or the emperor:
then all its provinces are removed from the HRE.
8)does not have custom ideas:
then it gets the event ‘New Traditions & Ambitions’. (Belarus ideas and ambitions)

And i think all this principalitys can form not only Belarus, Ruthenia too but form Belarus to form Ruthenia it is not necessarily
So i can make from Polotsk Ruthenia , or from Polotsk make Belarus and from Belarus i can form Ruthenia

And to form Ruthenia from belarusion nation we need all standart requirements and new : Control and have core on Minsk Turov and Polotsk (maybe and Vitebsk but i dont care)
And effects become standart


This is my ideal Belarus. Without Toropets** (not Ideal because border of Vilno and Brancau is bad : P)
Flag , can be like in picture. It is :
White Line
Red Line
White Line
and knight-rider "Pahoniya" and this rider must be in this position (like at picture) saved necessarily
Can use "Pahoniya" in style of emblem Belarus from 1991-1994(can give if you want)

 

[JKiller96]

What about Belarus? i know we can form Ruthenia , but Ruthenia (belarusians,ukrainians) it is like a "Heir of Kievan Rus". And also Ruthenia more ukrainian Direction than belarusian (ukr provinces need, ruthenian culture and etc)
So i want
1. New belarusian principality except Polotsk
a)Vitebsk principality (anexed by Lithuania in 1230)
3 provinces - Vitebsk (Capital) Mstislav Mogilev ( all state White Ruthenia) Polotsk dont lose core on this province beacuse Vitebsk was vassal of Polotsk
b) Turov principaity - ( last prince die in XIII century)
3 provinces - Turov (Capital) Pinsk Brest ( all Pripyat) and all principaity was a core of Galician-Vohlynian Kingdom (fall in 1349, and i write a post about this Kingdom and problem this country in game)
c) Polotsk gain new core - Ula in Minsk state

and i want move Polotsk province to Minsk state but it is another***

And if we have belarusian principalitys now we can talk about decision "Form Belarus"
Requirements:
1) Owns core Minsk Polotsk Vitebsk Turov Brest and Smolensk or Grodno
2) 10 administrative technology
3) independent state
4) primary culture - belarusian
Effects:
1) becomes Belarus
2) ganes permanent claim on : Pripyat Minsk White Ruthenia and Smolensk areas
3) is a duchy :
then it becomes a kingdom.
4) gets the modifier “Increased Centralization” for 20 years with the following effects:

• −0.05 monthly autonomy change,
• +1 national unrest.

5) changes its capital to: Minsk 276
6)gains 25 prestige.
7)is a member of the Holy Roman Empire and not an elector or the emperor:
then all its provinces are removed from the HRE.
8)does not have custom ideas:
then it gets the event ‘New Traditions & Ambitions’. (Belarus ideas and ambitions)

And i think all this principalitys can form not only Belarus, Ruthenia too but form Belarus to form Ruthenia it is not necessarily
So i can make from Polotsk Ruthenia , or from Polotsk make Belarus and from Belarus i can form Ruthenia

And to form Ruthenia from belarusion nation we need all standart requirements and new : Control and have core on Minsk Turov and Polotsk (maybe and Vitebsk but i dont care)
And effects become standart


This is my ideal Belarus. Without Toropets** (not Ideal because border of Vilno and Brancau is bad : P)
Flag , can be like in picture. It is :
White Line
Red Line
White Line
and knight-rider "Pahoniya" and this rider must be in this position (like at picture) saved necessarily
Can use "Pahoniya" in style of emblem Belarus from 1991-1994(can give if you want)

Looks like a whale

 

[Ilightmaster]

I always wondered why you can't change the name of your realm when you upgrade from a duchy to a kingdom and from a kingdom to an empire.. or change the color of your country or better change one of your national idea.

 

[Kaizer Prussian]

I always wondered why you can't change the name of your realm when you upgrade from a duchy to a kingdom and from a kingdom to an empire..

i always want a button , if i click on this button my country dont call "Poland" my country call "Kingdom of Poland" or Empire or Duchy ... Perfect button

 

[Kaizer Prussian]

Looks like a whale

thanks)

 

[allfath3r]

I always wondered why you can't change the name of your realm when you upgrade from a duchy to a kingdom and from a kingdom to an empire.. or change the color of your country or better change one of your national idea.

Because country name and map color are tied to individual tags.

 

[Silvaeagle]

I think forming Carthage would be cool - it would add some interest to playing Tunis/tlemcen/morocco... (if carthage had new maritime/trade ideas as well to replace the boring berber ideas that would also be nice.

Its unlikely since Carthage fell ages ago... but the roman empire is formable so its still in the realm of possibility. It'd be a fun game to play as tunis though (like the achievement) own sicily, sardinia, south coast of castille and most of the aragon coast. Could even add a new achievement - Hannibal the Cannibal: As Tunis form Carthage and take Rome/win a battle in the alps whilst led by a three star general. Carthage could be an administrative republic or merchant republic (although it would be weird to start as a monarchy and form a merchant republic cos of the state limit) - anything that emphasises their trade and mercenary focus would be great

Really, anything to make playing the maghreb nations more interesting would be good. theyre so close to europe that its a nice spot to start (options for expansion/trade etc.) but theyre soooo boring.

 

[SignedName]

I think forming Carthage would be cool - it would add some interest to playing Tunis/tlemcen/morocco... (if carthage had new maritime/trade ideas as well to replace the boring berber ideas that would also be nice.

Its unlikely since Carthage fell ages ago... but the roman empire is formable so its still in the realm of possibility. It'd be a fun game to play as tunis though (like the achievement) own sicily, sardinia, south coast of castille and most of the aragon coast. Could even add a new achievement - Hannibal the Cannibal: As Tunis form Carthage and take Rome/win a battle in the alps whilst led by a three star general. Carthage could be an administrative republic or merchant republic (although it would be weird to start as a monarchy and form a merchant republic cos of the state limit) - anything that emphasises their trade and mercenary focus would be great

Really, anything to make playing the maghreb nations more interesting would be good. theyre so close to europe that its a nice spot to start (options for expansion/trade etc.) but theyre soooo boring.

Problem is that no one celebrated the Carthaginian empire the same way they did Rome. There's no reason to revive an ancient precedent when there are much more relevant tags that could be revived, like Africa/Ifriqiya.

 

[Kaizer Prussian]

What about Belarus? i know we can form Ruthenia , but Ruthenia (belarusians,ukrainians) it is like a "Heir of Kievan Rus". And also Ruthenia more ukrainian Direction than belarusian (ukr provinces need, ruthenian culture and etc)
So i want
1. New belarusian principality except Polotsk
a)Vitebsk principality (anexed by Lithuania in 1230)
3 provinces - Vitebsk (Capital) Mstislav Mogilev ( all state White Ruthenia) Polotsk dont lose core on this province beacuse Vitebsk was vassal of Polotsk
b) Turov principaity - ( last prince die in XIII century)
4 provinces - Turov (Capital) Pinsk Brest ( all Pripyat) + Mozyr (from 1161) and all principaity was a core of Galician-Vohlynian Kingdom (fall in 1349, and i write a post about this Kingdom and problem this country in game)
c) Polotsk gain new core - Ula in Minsk state
d) Minsk pricipality (last prince die in 1326) 1 core province and capital Minsk

and i want move Polotsk province to Minsk state but it is another***

And if we have belarusian principalitys now we can talk about decision "Form Belarus"
Requirements:
1) Owns core Minsk Polotsk Vitebsk Turov Brest and Smolensk or Grodno
2) 10 administrative technology
3) independent state
4) primary culture - belarusian
Effects:
1) becomes Belarus
2) ganes permanent claim on : Pripyat Minsk White Ruthenia and Smolensk areas
3) is a duchy :
then it becomes a kingdom.
4) gets the modifier “Increased Centralization” for 20 years with the following effects:

• −0.05 monthly autonomy change,
• +1 national unrest.

5) changes its capital to: Minsk 276
6)gains 25 prestige.
7)is a member of the Holy Roman Empire and not an elector or the emperor:
then all its provinces are removed from the HRE.
8)does not have custom ideas:
then it gets the event ‘New Traditions & Ambitions’. (Belarus ideas and ambitions)

And i think all this principalitys can form not only Belarus, Ruthenia too but form Belarus to form Ruthenia it is not necessarily
So i can make from Polotsk Ruthenia , or from Polotsk make Belarus and from Belarus i can form Ruthenia

And to form Ruthenia from belarusion nation we need all standart requirements and new : Control and have core on Minsk Turov and Polotsk (maybe and Vitebsk but i dont care)
And effects become standart


This is my ideal Belarus. Without Toropets** (not Ideal because border of Vilno and Brancau is bad : P)
Flag , can be like in picture. It is :
White Line
Red Line
White Line
and knight-rider "Pahoniya" and this rider must be in this position (like at picture) saved necessarily
Can use "Pahoniya" in style of emblem Belarus from 1991-1994(can give if you want)

Yeah guys, maybe you write to me why my idea is bad, not only disagree : Р

 

[Onoma94]

Belarus is already represented by Polotsk tag (primary for Belarussian culture). Literally reconquer all your cores as Polotsk and you are Belarus - don't see the need for another tag for exactly the same thing.

 

[Kaizer Prussian]

Belarus is already represented by Polotsk tag (primary for Belarussian culture). Literally reconquer all your cores as Polotsk and you are Belarus - don't see the need for another tag for exactly the same thing.

Polotsk pricnipality it is not complete Belarus , It is like Pomerania yes youre prіmary culture is Pomeranian but you still not Germany, and of course Polotsk have a core only on half of Belarus (because Belarus have in past more principaitys) . When i play Nitra in Slovakia and i have all slovak provnce i can say" Now i am Slovakia" because they have core on all slovak provnce in Slovakia area in today capital of Slovakia and same emblem(sadly not same or, formable name but it doesnt matter)
In Polotsk we dont have same (only it is belarusian culture and Belarus- heir of Polotsk) So formable Belarus dont make more problem,ony make game better
By the way BEL tag still free or(If paradox add Belgium lol) BLR i dont care.
Belarusians need their own formable state
thanks for ansver!)

 

[AirikrStrife]

Polotsk pricnipality it is not complete Belarus , It is like Pomerania yes youre prіmary culture is Pomeranian but you still not Germany, and of course Polotsk have a core only on half of Belarus (because Belarus have in past more principaitys) . When i play Nitra in Slovakia and i have all slovak provnce i can say" Now i am Slovakia" because they have core on all slovak provnce in Slovakia area in today capital of Slovakia and same emblem(sadly not same or, formable name but it doesnt matter)
In Polotsk we dont have same (only it is belarusian culture and Belarus- heir of Polotsk) So formable Belarus dont make more problem,ony make game better
By the way BEL tag still free or(If paradox add Belgium lol) BLR i dont care.
Belarusians need their own formable state
thanks for ansver!)

Because belarus doesn't need it's own tag. It's unlikly to see one belarusian principality appear in game, even unliklier to see it become strong enough to form belarus. So waste of data essentially. It would only be usefull for ppl who makes a targeted effort tocreate belarus.
While i can agree on adding one principality to add to cover western belarusian provinces (turov-pinsk) anything more is a again waste of data.
That's key gameplay reasons, if you want to play a game as belarus, make a mod, it's not that hard to make.

Secondly the historic validity of tge suggestion is volatile, did a separate belarusian identity exist back in 1444, a lot of ppl don't even think it should exist and just be ruthenian. As my understanding, albeit probably a bit simplified, a distinct belarusian identity starts to develop covering slavic lands still controlled by lithuania after the union of lublin. Certainly disinct regional identities already did exist but they were more tied to cities or places (like polotsk) or even the grand duchy of lithuania, than to a notion of belarusian identity.
On that note I did previously made a suggestion that Lithuania should have the decision to change culture to belarusian as ruthenian/belarusian culture started overshadowing lithuanian.

And also lithuania is not weirdly drawn, except for its border to poland in modern podlaskie, it's eastern border coresponding to the border of vilno voivodship. Your asking for a modern border which was established by stalin aftet ww2

 

[Kaizer Prussian]

Because belarus doesn't need it's own tag. It's unlikly to see one belarusian principality appear in game, even unliklier to see it become strong enough to form belarus. So waste of data essentially. It would only be usefull for ppl who makes a targeted effort tocreate belarus.
While i can agree on adding one principality to add to cover western belarusian provinces (turov-pinsk) anything more is a again waste of data.
That's key gameplay reasons, if you want to play a game as belarus, make a mod, it's not that hard to make.

Secondly the historic validity of tge suggestion is volatile, did a separate belarusian identity exist back in 1444, a lot of ppl don't even think it should exist and just be ruthenian. As my understanding, albeit probably a bit simplified, a distinct belarusian identity starts to develop covering slavic lands still controlled by lithuania after the union of lublin. Certainly disinct regional identities already did exist but they were more tied to cities or places (like polotsk) or even the grand duchy of lithuania, than to a notion of belarusian identity.
On that note I did previously made a suggestion that Lithuania should have the decision to change culture to belarusian as ruthenian/belarusian culture started overshadowing lithuanian.

And also lithuania is not weirdly drawn, except for its border to poland in modern podlaskie, it's eastern border coresponding to the border of vilno voivodship. Your asking for a modern border which was established by stalin aftet ww2

About decision in Lithuania, you are on 100% right!
By the way i think Add Belarus and Turov-Pinsk it is not so much data, so it is game right? And when we have Scandinavia (best example) which didn't exist in all time so maybe we have a 2 new country? One formable , another released, it is dont make game harder for another players it is only make game better , like another suggestions. Paradox in this time redraw near east: new province,border,country , formable country(mooooore country which die from Ottomans) next Anatolia and Caucusus, naybe next Balkan and Pontic Steppe , or Ruthenia(i dont care i like all new province, and countrys) So i think all regions must improved, and wenn we look on great belarusian culture , i think we can "turn on" our imagine and make not so big country, with no big problem, when we have 10+ states which die from Ottomans in first 10 years of game , why we dont have a two(one without formable) which conquer by Muscovy. Game become more interesting with allll suggestions. And Belarus it is no exception!

You are 100% but ,it is game, more imagine and states which doesn't exist in time fron 1444 to 1821 become real!
Thank you ! You are professional

 

[moscal]

Term "Leucorossia" (White-Ruthienia - Belarus) existed as a political-cultural concept in XVI century and later. Was first used (as this concept) by Salomon Rysinski ( https://be.wikipedia.org/wiki/Саламон_Рысінскі ) as group "not-Russians; not-Ruthenians; not-Poles; not-Lithuanians". So we have historical base. Curiosity - Salomon was calvinist.

"Arabia" exists in the game as an alternative path for the evolution of Arab states and is acceptable by players. So Leucorossia should be also acceptable.

 

[Kaizer Prussian]

Term "Leucorossia" (White-Ruthienia - Belarus) existed as a political-cultural concept in XVI century and later. Was first used (as this concept) by Salomon Rysinski ( https://be.wikipedia.org/wiki/Саламон_Рысінскі ) as group "not-Russians; not-Ruthenians; not-Poles; not-Lithuanians". So we have historical base. Curiosity - Salomon was calvinist.

"Arabia" exists in the game as an alternative path for the evolution of Arab states and is acceptable by players. So Leucorossia should be also acceptable.

Perfect! Thank you ! without you i newer find this interesting information. By the way Leucorossia it is latin name, and game general English i think formable country can named "Belarus" but it is very important information and information about "Leucorossia" and Solomon Rysynskyi may written in decription of decision "Form Belarus" or "Form belarus nation" i dont care
thank you again!)

 

[AirikrStrife]

But Arabia is a powerful goal to strive for with a deep history based on muhammed and the caliphates, Belarus isnt even possible for the player to form unless playing custom nation or playing released vasal, and anyway just a stepping stone towards forming Ruthenia.

 

[moscal]

But Arabia is a powerful goal to strive for with a deep history based on muhammed and the caliphates, Belarus isnt even possible for the player to form unless playing custom nation or playing released vasal, and anyway just a stepping stone towards forming Ruthenia.

In this time concept "One Nationalist Arabian State" doesn't exist. Caliphate is concept religious, so Caliphs can be Arabs, Berbers, Turks, Poles, Jews, Zulus etc. (exception - Shia) Eg. Sokoto Caliphate wasn't Arabian State; ruler of Ottoman Empire had title "Caliph" but this person wasn't arabian.

Panarabism is concept from XIX-XX century. Others over-tribal or over-dynastical concepts of "One Nationalist Arabian State" was dead in this time.

 

[Kaizer Prussian]

But Arabia is a powerful goal to strive for with a deep history based on muhammed and the caliphates, Belarus isnt even possible for the player to form unless playing custom nation or playing released vasal, and anyway just a stepping stone towards forming Ruthenia.

Belarus have their own place in history like Arabia or another countrys. Yes they small, from 144 to 1821 they dont have their own state but it was more countrys,smaller than Belarus which have their own country (not all formable) Estonia or Livonia example .
i think not support adding new countrys it is bad , you may no support :adding new province for this country, ideas of this country, decisions, but reject all new countrys it is verrrrrrrry bad