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new provinces in Ruthenian(ukrainian) region.

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Rzeczpospolita3Narodów

Rzeczpospolita3Narodów

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Sep 18, 2015
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Hey guys! i think there very unhistorically provinces, and veeeery big..:) So i offer new provinces, not need make all of this, but a half of this would be nice!
Provinces(adm. division of ukraine on 1918):
UNR_1918_divisions-1.png

UNR_1918_divisions-0.png
Cultures:
lithuania1568.gif

a8-YlqxxZ8M.jpg
fgyPZxt0IPA.jpg

sgpr4g.jpg
population in Conmmowealth:
6wuIaZoNq6A.jpg
some maps which i hope help for you:
7dijKdhHtwM.jpg
u-NU71j7O5M.jpg
 
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Rzeczpospolita3Narodów said:
what a diffrence?:) is the same languages, ukrainians were ruthenians, same as ukrainian was ruthenian. All what changes from those times, is grammar, and not so much:)
Click to expand...
That's a really ignorant thing to say. Not only from linguistical point of view, but also ethnical. But nevermind. This is not the point of this thread.
 
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I think that Paradox imagine Eastern Europe to be a some kind of infertile wasteland that is even more poor than uncolonized jungles in Africa or Arabian desert provinces. The problem is that the whole region is too weak: nor PLC (should it form), nor Muscovy\Russia are not even remotely as powerful as Ottomans.

Warfare is terrible because provinces are huge and your troops walk around 2-3 weeks.

I think that the whole region (Poland, Lithuania, TO, LO, Muscovy, Novgorod, Steppe hordes) needs a complete overhaul from scratch and needs it's development increased by 30%-50%
 
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Rzeczpospolita3Narodów said:
Hey guys! i think there very unhistorically provinces, and veeeery big..:) So i offer new provinces, not need make all of this, but a half of this would be nice!
Provinces:
UNR_1918_divisions-1.png

UNR_1918_divisions-0.png

Cultures:
lithuania1568.gif
Click to expand...
There is only one problem with this and I think the devs may have said this before. More provinces means more development and more development mean more income (more provinces means you could end up developing more land cheaper, effectively). By adding more provinces you might make the PLC way more powerful to the point the only way Russia could survive is to take them out early game. I do believe early game muscovy does need a buff so it is more frightening when you are Otto and facing Muscovy, but to buff the income of PLC isn't the best idea. If you saw the dev multiplayer, PLC had an easy time to take them down, but then again had a bit of a good diplomatic situation (IDK). Maybe three provinces could be added, but with caution by the devs. I would say to first put one in south by moldavia and the other two, which I would prefer to be added first, in the north by the Lith Muscovy border, to split up some of the big plain and forest provinces there.
 
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cub298 said:
There is only one problem with this and I think the devs may have said this before. More provinces means more development and more development mean more income (more provinces means you could end up developing more land cheaper, effectively). By adding more provinces you might make the PLC way more powerful to the point the only way Russia could survive is to take them out early game. I do believe early game muscovy does need a buff so it is more frightening when you are Otto and facing Muscovy, but to buff the income of PLC isn't the best idea. If you saw the dev multiplayer, PLC had an easy time to take them down, but then again had a bit of a good diplomatic situation (IDK). Maybe three provinces could be added, but with caution by the devs. I would say to first put one in south by moldavia and the other two, which I would prefer to be added first, in the north by the Lith Muscovy border, to split up some of the big plain and forest provinces there.
Click to expand...

dev MP is not an indicator: Muscovite player was completely incompetent and lost all what he could because of his incompetency. Actually Moscow after defeating Novgorod can and should DoW Poland-Lithuania asap and beat all the cra... dirt out of it with Shemyaka (4-shock) and faster tech 4
 
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Just wanted to pop in and say that as always we keep track of map suggestion threads but cannot promise any changes in particular.
The maps in this thread are a bit more modern than I like, for Poland and Lithuania we've leaned on PLC administrative divisions as well as post partition divisions for inspiration in the past, of course that's not always going to work out so well in places like the wild fields (and we haven't adjusted provinces there since version 1.8 I think) so feel free to press on specific changes you'd like to see.
Eastern European development (and plc development in particular) has been adjusted a lot both up and down during the course of this games lifespan, it is as always a constant balancing act to get it where it's both fair in the long run and in 1444. There are still frequent cries to decrease the plc development even now so it's apparent the community is pretty divided on this itself.
If you feel it should be changed again please argue for it in detail and we will as always consider it :)

Zak Preston said:
should DoW Poland-Lithuania asap and beat all the cra... dirt out of it with Shemyaka (4-shock) and faster tech 4
Click to expand...

To be sure many players are better than me in the office but I'm unsure how what you described would've helped me defeat the plc and Austria at the same time ;)
I'm glad you watch the mp though, and I'm happy to listen to advice you may have in future versions of it :)
 
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Trin Tragula said:
Just wanted to pop in and say that as always we keep track of map suggestion threads but cannot promise any changes in particular.
The maps in this thread are a bit more modern than I like, for Poland and Lithuania we've leaned on PLC administrative divisions as well as post partition divisions for inspiration in the past, of course that's not always going to work out so well in places like the wild fields (and we haven't adjusted provinces there since version 1.8 I think) so feel free to press on specific changes you'd like to see.
Eastern European development (and plc development in particular) has been adjusted a lot both up and down during the course of this games lifespan, it is as always a constant balancing act to get it where it's both fair in the long run and in 1444. There are still frequent cries to decrease the plc development even now so it's apparent the community is pretty divided on this itself.
If you feel it should be changed again please argue for it in detail and we will as always consider it :)
Click to expand...

I've started a couple of threads about Eastern European region about a year ago (in my signature) and it's possible that some of my remarks have been noted (or maybe not :)). I can provide some data about Polish and Lithuanian population in EU4 timeline, but I'm not sure if non-English sources will satisfy you.

First of all we should agree with axiom: any balance comparisons should be done in equal environment: AI vs AI and Players vs Players.

The reason why Eastern European development and province layout should be reviewed are:
  • Balance: The real badboy and boss in proximity is Ottoman because well, they have everything (development, trade income, army quality and quantity). With recent patches Ottomans get Crimea as march with very high probability. In terms of Poland-Lithuania vs Muscovy (Russia) conflict the winner usually contests Crimean lands at very least. With current balance Russia usually wins against PLC with 75% probability and takes all Eastern Slavic lands. Even if we count that Russia takes all PLC territory, and hordes and TO + LO (which usually never happens, since all PLC neighbors start partitioning it in case of fail), it will result in ~1300 development. Roughly the same will have Ottomans with Balkans + full Anatolia, Syria, Egypt and Arabia. But Even in this case Ottomans will have equivalent FL, far superior army quality (with even with same ideagroups) and far more income. Russian-Polish stand-off usually ends in ~2-3 won wars, where loser enters death spiral and is partitioned by all neighbors.
  • Common sense: open development map and wonder about the Great Eastern European wasteland called Ruthenia. Province size and development is equivalent to ones in Shammar, Najd, Yemen, Air, Kanem Bornu.
  • Aesthetics: the region is ugly, with huge square-shaped provinces which look like a grid to me.
  • Fun Factor: warfare in such provinces is slow because movement from province to province takes much longer then in more dense regions, resulting in slower reinforcements in battles.
IMO the whole Eastern Europe (Poland, Lithuania, TO, LO, Muscovy, European Hordes) should get 30%-50% development increase. This will result in more intense and prolonged stand-off between Poland-Lithuania, Muscovy and Sweden. It might be an option to add extra autonomy to Elective Monarchy or a national-wide modifier to represent powerful nobility.

Trin Tragula said:
To be sure many players are better than me in the office but I'm unsure how what you described would've helped me defeat the plc and Austria at the same time ;)
I'm glad you watch the mp though, and I'm happy to listen to advice you may have in future versions of it :)
Click to expand...

People that play competitive MP are used to templates that have the best profit:efforts ratio. The most standard template for Muscovy is to help Sweden release from PU. Then Muscovy promises Sweden TO and LO lands in return for long-term alliance against Poland-Lithuania and Brandenburg duo. Their main goal is to prevent PLC from forming by taking Danzig and as much Baltic lands as possible, also Sweden should try to secure Lubeck trade centers from BRA. The first war is relatively easy for Muscovy thanks to awesome Shemyaka (4-shock) and good ruler, while Polish one has 1 in military. Muscovy usually takes MIL-4 around a year earlier than P-L, while having comparable army size and quality. Poland is extremely vulnerable in early game and has backloaded NI set, where most impactful military NIs are in the end of the list, while Muscovy gets early manpower, force limits and core-creation cost discount. Also Groogy as Ottoman shouldn't have allowed anyone consolidate the region so easily, which had it's results later :D
TL:DR you shouldn't have allowed Poland even form and you should have babysat Sweden as your best ally.

I think devs should play EU4 with regular players. :) I bet they will be surprised with some powerplayer's performance :rolleyes:
 
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Zak Preston said:
I think that the whole region (Poland, Lithuania, TO, LO, Muscovy, Novgorod, Steppe hordes) needs a complete overhaul from scratch and needs it's development increased by 30%-50%
Click to expand...
To be fair areas like China or Japan could have easily their development double or tripled.
 
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Zerodv said:
To be fair areas like China or Japan could have easily their development double or tripled.
Click to expand...
Not sure about trippling development, but Far East definitely needs more provinces, flavor and new mechanics. But what does it have to do with Eastern European Desolates?
 
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Zak Preston said:
Not sure about trippling development, but Far East definitely needs more provinces, flavor and new mechanics. But what does it have to do with Eastern European Desolates?
Click to expand...
Only that imbalance exist pretty much everywhere and Eastern Europe is one of the least worse place.
 
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