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_King_of_Pain_ said:
Once again, so it is 22:00 GMt game time. Although, now that we miss the OE. BB is a waste...Spain is leading by far...France was away in the previous session..which was so vital one..feels like restart the entire game..picking new civs..:p just a thought..dont mind it if you dont like it
Click to expand...

I have to thank Mioz for the awesome first session.


if we start a new game i want:

1. England
2. BB
3. Russia
 
At first, I confirm that Spain exchanged maps with me. With all his explorers and conquers, they really didn't need my maps to know China and Japan. Certainly, the one who takes more profit with exchage was me (I didn't know most of spanish CoT). I'm sure, Fnuco didn't exchange with AI.

I think the problem with Spanish expansion was BB/Austria war. If someone had join BB, Spain had join Austria wasting his forces in Europe insteed of expande all over the world.



I agree with continue playing our game. I agree with restart (this case, I would prefer restart from 1419). Every option is OK for me if it means keep on playing.
 
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Since almost everyone already peaced out the Habsburg powers by the time, by someone you meant France, I presume. I had my doubts about France being able to defeat, or even to fend off Austria, Spain and possibly England all alone. Hold me responsible. ;)

I'm fine with both continuing this game or starting a new one. My preference list remains the same.

Edit: On second thought, I think I'll opt out in case we are restarting.
 
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Spain isn't invincible, yes they control quite a few CoT's, but England can hit them in the middle game.

Or not, considering the noobinesh of KoP.

The hapsburgs are strong because... well... the guys who were supposed to contain them (Fra and OE) signed NAPs and didn't knew how to wage war against them.. England also has a bit of guilt, since they must be the ones keeping an eye on Europe, watching that nobody gets stronger than the other.

If you guys are goin to restart, I suggest a more balanced scenario, like Peter Ebesen's or maybe FAL's WATK scens.
 
Mungojerrie said:
Since almost everyone already peaced out the Habsburg powers by the time, by someone you meant France, I presume. I had my doubts about France being able to defeat, or even to fend off Austria, Spain and possibly England all alone. Hold me responsible. ;)

I'm fine with both continuing this game or starting a new one. My preference list remains the same.

Edit: On second thought, I think I'll opt out in case we are restarting.
Click to expand...

I'm not blaming you, be sure :) . Maybe, OE, England, you, me, several at same time...(Alek was too far in east). Also could be sending money to BB without joining the war (I sent 30D but I was too poor). I don't mean it was only your matter. I think it was a matter of all of us (including me). If someone had joined BB and Spain join Austria, it could have been a world war with everybody joining (even me had joined).

And I agree Ego. To keep his empire, Spain must dominate seas. And I think they weren't be able to do it against the navy Mungo built and English navy (or mine).

However, I blame nobody. We are newbies learning how to play MP :p . And I think it has been a good game (which wasn't decided yet). I think it still could be a good game. Really, I'm enjoining it. :rofl:
 
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Well, let's see :confused: :

1. Who will continue playing?
2. Do you want to continue the game or restart?
3. If restart, What year do you want restart?
4. If restart, What country would you want?

Once decided that, we can search for more players (I'll post in spanish and french forums).

PD: please, don't go :(
 
Just thought I would clarify, Alek.

The reason why the game got out of balance was because France. Mungo's a great guy, but missing that vital session was really what changed things. Mungo is a relatively new player, so even the first session that war with Spain + Austria hurt him, but then missing the second session, which was so vital, forced me to sign NAP with Austria. He had a strong alliance and CRT while I had none and then France was ghosted, so no hope of a joint attack. I hate to mess up the balance, Alek, but it was clear from the amount of players that the game was destined to unbalanced. We had people who were brand new, like KoP and Duque(who did very good for 1st MP), and then Mioz, Ulz, You, Fnuco, who all seem to be pretty experienced and smart players.

My NAPing with Austria did mess up the game, because it hurt Russian expansion. With no one to worry about, and the assurance that Austria, my only powerful neighbor wouldn't attack me, I made it my goal to expand and stop your expansion. I'm sorry for that, but I forsaw in this game that there would be a few major powers emerging.

I echo what Ego said. Spain is vulnerable at this point. They have -2 stability and are spread pretty thin. A france/Ottoman alliance at this point, would be able to cripple them if fought properly.

We had a few bad first sessions, starting late, not playing much, etc, but for having 3 first time MP players, I think it went well.

I said KoP, I thought this game wasn't going anywhere. I am sad that the events would transpire like this, but I can devote 1 and a half hours I suppose to the game. It would be very rude for me to leave this game at this point, considering how I ragged on the others who were late or missed a session.
 
You didn't stop my expansion at all, I stoped because 1) Didn't had cores in the east, 2) Sweden/Denmark were a pain in the ass and 3) My BB was getting high.

I was teching land, so when the events that gave me cores in the east fired (1560-1600), the CRT advantage between us would be gone or be minimal.

And I had Spain ready for backup in case you went nuts over me.
 
Ok, seems like most of us are ok with restarting a new fresh game. I also think it's a good idea since some of us newbie to MP now have somewhat experience to MP game. Also, it would be really nice if we can gather couple more players for some vital nations in the middle east and far east such as Mungal, China. THey should keep the game even more balancing world wide.
For settings, rules, starting date will be the same for the simplicity.

I suggest if we are about to get on with this, just post your choice of nations, get few more players and get on right to new game. Let's not waste anymore time. I also like all of us be on time for all sessions to keep the game flow going steadily.
:rolleyes: :cool:
 
New List of Nations:

France
Spain
Austria
England
Ottoman
Russia
Sweden
BB
China: _King_of_Pain_
Mungal


Game time: 6:00 PM NY time = 22:00 GMT time.

10 nations in total. I feel the need of Portugal is minimal since we all know it just makes Spain even more overpowered. BB is important in the main land to keep things balancing. China, Mungal are vital as well in keeping thing balancing in the far lands ( slow down the european expansion).
 
:p

this is quite a surprise! If you restart I'll take Oe this time, I have to train my evil side (nods)
 
The guy playing China will be bored as hell. Besides, having a China will seriously disrupt any colonial country's game.

Have to think about my 3 options...
 
Dont worry, i am content with being in China. I think having china and Mungal will balance the whole world game. otherwise, colonial nations such as Spain, England..will be overpowered.

List:

France
Spain
Austria
England
Ottoman: Ulschmidt
Russia
Sweden
BB
China: _King_of_Pain_
Mungal
Guys, pick your nation, let's get this ready by next game session. Please consider your pick so that each can help balance the game.
 
_King_of_Pain_ said:
Dont worry, i am content with being in China. I think having china and Mungal will balance the whole world game. otherwise, colonial nations such as Spain, England..will be overpowered.

List:

France
Spain
Austria
England
Ottoman: Ulschmidt
Russia
Sweden
BB
China: _King_of_Pain_
Mungal
Guys, pick your nation, let's get this ready by next game session. Please consider your pick so that each can help balance the game.
Click to expand...

I doubt Mughals and China are the powers to balance the game. Persia is probably a better choice than Mughals. Stops OE growth (which is worse than colonial growth of England or Spain. Colonial empires only add income, not MP and naval support)
And NL or Venice are better than China. NL would add another colonial competitor and Venice would do that as well (though NL is better at it) and would make it harder for Spain to get Italy.
 
Any country bigger than Porto will be great. SPA, FRA, AUS, ENG, SWE, POL, RUS. The problem is that Portugal's King only has the diplomatic way (If he doesn't want to become a vassal of Spain or be killed by his strong neighbour).



I think it's better to pick european countries. We'll be togheter and the game will be more interesting (believe me, I played almost alone with Porto)

To avoid spanish to expand all over the world, is needed to stop them in Europe first. And if it means alliances are needed, the game will become more interesting.

And I also think starting in 1419 will balance the game, Spanish had to reconquer Granada, deal with a civil war. Certainly, England starts in advantage, but the other country could force them to sign a generous peace with France. Also, starting in 1419 doesn't allow Spain to set governors before 1550 (which make them almost invencible). This way, the big colonizators doesn't have enough money early in the game. Also they have to start involving them in European conflicts, because they don't have colonizators since the beggining, giving one oportunity to Portugal as playable country (they have good leaders and several explorers before 1480).


As a newbie, I think we learn a lot playing all togheter in European lands. Playing as China (even as POrtugal) is similar as playing SP, at least at the beggining
 
No, if we're gonna start a new game we need to do it right. First, a BALANCED scenario, 1419 isn't balanced at all, the stock scenarios neither. Second, a balanced roster, If you haven't noticed we had difficulties last time to have a full session with everyone, so that means NO CHINA and NO MUGHALS.

This is a list of Must-be-occupied countries:

Spain
France
England
Ottoman Empire
Austria
Sweden
Russia

You can kick a game with the above list, then comes the secondary ones:

Poland
Venice
Netherlands
Brandemburg
Portugal
Persia

And then,

Mughals

And very deep at the bottom,

China

I don't like the idea of a Chinese player, I wouldn't say that a China hinders colonization that much. The trouble with China is having a player who will play SP for the most of the game, with NO contact with other players, and that will only result in a waste of bandwith (another thing that we don't have).

About the scenarios, we can start with Peter Ebesen's 1492 or 1520, or maybe play a WAtK scenario, like Drake's 1453 or FAL's 1492. But trust me, 1419 starts are evil.
 
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I don't want to be the host anymore (to much stress), so let's search a new one and test if we can connect before Thursday.

I agree with list of countries posted by Alek.

Finally I don't agree with Alek's proposal of scenarios. ¿What's the problem with 1419? ¿England?. If Enlgand becomes too powerfull, his neighbours could creat a multi-alliance to stop them (that's what historically happened with Spain between 1520 and 1650). We can also appoint a absolut newbie to be King of England. Really, I don't think Spain becoming so powerfull in our game is a matter of scenario. The matter is that Spain has been ruled by two experienced players, and they grew so against unexperienced neighbours.

I prefer 1419 because:
1. It will give us more years to play.
2. It makes economical management become more important (with very low income at the beggining).
3. We'll reach the XVI siecle with lower technical levels and lower income level, which will decrease colonization speed of Spanish and England. Also, Portugal becomes more playable, which also decrease colonization speed of bigger colonizators (Spain, Engand, France,...).
 
Duque Alesandro said:
I prefer 1419 because:
1. It will give us more years to play.
2. It makes economical management become more important (with very low income at the beggining).
3. We'll reach the XVI siecle with lower technical levels and lower income level, which will decrease colonization speed of Spanish and England. Also, Portugal becomes more playable, which also decrease colonization speed of bigger colonizators (Spain, Engand, France,...).
Click to expand...

1. I prefer quality than quantity

2. economical management becomes important... and boring. wars use to be very expensive, that's why nobody cares and hypertech.

3.on the contrary! every country use to reach to 1492 wealthier and more powerful (better technology, usually 3,2 infra/2,7 trade/6,8 land/5,3 naval; this is a statistical mean of some games I've found in the stats site starting from 1419, in comparison the 1492 scenario means are 2infra/2,3 trade/6,3land/5,6naval). Spain and Portugal might lose their tech and colonization advantage (random explorers are probable for other nations before columbus, and if they don't have any, everyone could steal maps from AI, Morocco is an example)

Statistically, France, Poland and OE gets the advantages. If you're lucky they might fight each other to counter their wealth a bit... but as i said few people decide to fight during the 1400' century. Conclusion: Habsburgs' advantage disappear; not that historical.
 
why dont we all express our options on the scenario to be used?

I am for:

1. Watk 1453 (1st option)
2. vanilla 1492
3. Watk 1492

I say we pick the scenario first, and based on that we state our 3 starting choices.

What scenario do you prefer?
 
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